2019 Australian Open

[Troublemaker]

Oh, my. Just read where Tsitsipas beat Fed. Knew I should have gotten up to watch that match. Bummed in multiple ways.

It's alright. It was basically Young Fed beating Old Fed in a great match. A passing of the torch, maybe. (Note: not that I'm predicting 20 Slams for Tsitsipas...)

The future of tennis is bright.

With Tiafoe making it to the QF, the so-called "NextGen", an ATP label, is starting to roar.

[Troublemaker]

With Tiafoe making it to the QF, the so-called "NextGen", an ATP label, is starting to roar.

I'm wondering if Medvedev can push Novak tonight (tomorrow morning) as well. Many consider him to be the best of the young Russians.

[Green Wave Dukie]

It's alright. It was basically Young Fed beating Old Fed in a great match. A passing of the torch, maybe. (Note: not that I'm predicting 20 Slams for Tsitsipas...)

The future of tennis is bright.

Yep, thought the same thing. Made me think of when Federer beat Sampras at Wimbledon - believe it was their only meeting between them ever in a real match. Believe it was 18 years ago. Amazing.

[jimsumner]

It's alright. It was basically Young Fed beating Old Fed in a great match. A passing of the torch, maybe. (Note: not that I'm predicting 20 Slams for Tsitsipas...)

The future of tennis is bright.

With Tiafoe making it to the QF, the so-called "NextGen", an ATP label, is starting to roar.

The U.S. hasn't an elite man since Roddick was at his peak. Isner, Sock, Querry, et. al. all seem to have capped out short of that level.

Is Tiafoe the real deal? Or will he also fall just short of elite status?

[robed deity]

The U.S. hasn't an elite man since Roddick was at his peak. Isner, Sock, Querry, et. al. all seem to have capped out short of that level.

Is Tiafoe the real deal? Or will he also fall just short of elite status?

Hard to imagine him threatening Nadal tomorrow. Had some long matches and I don't see him getting enough free points on serve.

[Bluedog]

The U.S. hasn't an elite man since Roddick was at his peak. Isner, Sock, Querry, et. al. all seem to have capped out short of that level.

Is Tiafoe the real deal? Or will he also fall just short of elite status?

Tennis is a cruel sport when somebody who is consistently top 10 in the world and had a peak ranking of #8 isn't considered "elite" (Isner). Can you imagine the 8th best player in the NBA not being considered elite?! Not picking on you Jim at all as I agree and you clearly have a wealth of tennis knowledge, I just find the different standards across sports interesting. And certainly it's because it's an individual sport where you have to win slams to be considered at the top of the world, but that often is only the top 4ish guys in the world. So, to be truly "elite" you have to win the whole thing (at least once) and have a cumulative ranking that puts you in the top few humans in the world to play the sport of tennis. Roddick was ranked #1 for an extended period and won one Slam. This similar type of dynamic is why it's basically impossible to make a living as a tennis player and the top few guys gobble up all the bucks and you also have to pay for travel around the world yourself (it's not like an NBA team flying you everywhere and putting you up in hotels) in addition to paying for coaching etc. And, of course, there just isn't nearly as much money overall in tennis as a sport like football or basketball. But I digress...


Go Tiafoe! He's got a great story. I got to see him (as well as Isner, Sock, Federer, Anderson) at the Laver Cup in Chicago - was quite a treat.

[jimsumner]

Tennis is a cruel sport when somebody who is consistently top 10 in the world and had a peak ranking of #8 isn't considered "elite" (Isner). Can you imagine the 8th best player in the NBA not being considered elite?! Not picking on you Jim at all as I agree and you clearly have a wealth of tennis knowledge, I just find the different standards across sports interesting. And certainly it's because it's an individual sport where you have to win slams to be considered at the top of the world, but that often is only the top 4ish guys in the world. So, to be truly "elite" you have to win the whole thing (at least once) and have a cumulative ranking that puts you in the top few humans in the world to play the sport of tennis. Roddick was ranked #1 for an extended period and won one Slam. This similar type of dynamic is why it's basically impossible to make a living as a tennis player and the top few guys gobble up all the bucks and you also have to pay for travel around the world yourself (it's not like an NBA team flying you everywhere and putting you up in hotels) in addition to paying for coaching etc. And, of course, there just isn't nearly as much money overall in tennis as a sport like football or basketball. But I digress...


Go Tiafoe! He's got a great story. I got to see him (as well as Isner, Sock, Federer, Anderson) at the Laver Cup in Chicago - was quite a treat.

I've long rooted for Isner. But compare his career to people like Sampras, McEnroe, Connors, Courier, Agassi. Those were elite Americans. Even Roddick never quite got to that level. But he was closer than any American man since.

[CDu]

I've long rooted for Isner. But compare his career to people like Sampras, McEnroe, Connors, Courier, Agassi. Those were elite Americans. Even Roddick never quite got to that level. But he was closer than any American man since.

Isner is elite. Those guys you mention we’re not just elite; they were all-time greats.

That is sort of like saying Chipper Jones wasn’t elite because he wasn’t as good as Mike Schmidt.

[jimsumner]

Isner is elite. Those guys you mention we’re not just elite; they were all-time greats.

That is sort of like saying Chipper Jones wasn’t elite because he wasn’t as good as Mike Schmidt.

Apples and oranges, methinks.

Isner will be 34 this summer. He has been on the tour since 2007 and has never made the finals of a major. He piles up points by winning second-tier tournaments.

And good for him. He works hard for a living and he's earned everything he's received.

But what's the biggest win of his career? Atlanta? Winston-Salem?

No one wants to play against Isner. But his game has too many flaws for him to beat truly elite players when those guys are on their game. I've never once gone into a major thinking Isner had even a remote chance of winning the whole thing. Elite players have that chance.

I miss the days when the U.S.A. produced men who had a legit chance to win majors. Isner is not that guy.

[Troublemaker]

Serena passes the Halep test. Both she and Osaka are one win away from a juicy US Open rematch.

The U.S. hasn't an elite man since Roddick was at his peak. Isner, Sock, Querry, et. al. all seem to have capped out short of that level.

Is Tiafoe the real deal? Or will he also fall just short of elite status?

I don't see Slam-winning potential in Tiafoe myself but I'm not adamant about it because he has such a compelling story and personality. He feels like he should be a star on intangibles, and maybe I just have a bias against his (to me) ugly forehand stroke. It would be great for U.S. men's tennis if he surpasses my expectations.

Let's see how he does against Nadal tonight (tomorrow morning). Those elite players that you mentioned all popped when they were young and could already compete with the previous generations. Tsitsipas is popping right now despite his young age.

[jimsumner]

Serena passes the Halep test. Both she and Osaka are one win away from a juicy US Open rematch.



I don't see Slam-winning potential in Tiafoe myself but I'm not adamant about it because he has such a compelling story and personality. He feels like he should be a star on intangibles, and maybe I just have a bias against his (to me) ugly forehand stroke. It would be great for U.S. men's tennis if he surpasses my expectations.

Let's see how he does against Nadal tonight (tomorrow morning). Those elite players that you mentioned all popped when they were young and could already compete with the previous generations. Tsitsipas is popping right now despite his young age.

I don't either, right now. But he's 21 and could get better. Isner, Sock, Harrison, Querry? I suspect not.

Or he could be Donald Young.

[robed deity]

I don't either, right now. But he's 21 and could get better. Isner, Sock, Harrison, Querry? I suspect not.

Or he could be Donald Young.

Surely, you think he will be better than Ryan Harrison. I think he already is.

[jimsumner]

Surely, you think he will be better than Ryan Harrison. I think he already is.

Not my point. At 21, Tiafoe has the potential to get better, perhaps to develop into the kind of player who can win a major. I don't think he's peaked yet.

The other Americans I mentioned are older and likely have peaked.

Insert obligatory Leslie Nielsen reference at your discretion.

[Green Wave Dukie]

He feels like he should be a star on intangibles, and maybe I just have a bias against his (to me) ugly forehand stroke.

Trouble, don’t take it personally. It’s not just you, I assure you.

[robed deity]

Not my point. At 21, Tiafoe has the potential to get better, perhaps to develop into the kind of player who can win a major. I don't think he's peaked yet.

The other Americans I mentioned are older and likely have peaked.

Insert obligatory Leslie Nielsen reference at your discretion.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I've been especially impressed with his "feel" this tournament. He's made many crafty shots around net that one doesn't associate with recent Americans. That being said, big ask tonight. I'll be surprised if he takes a set.

[Bluedog]

I don't either, right now. But he's 21 and could get better. Isner, Sock, Harrison, Querry? I suspect not.

Or he could be Donald Young.

For the record, I beat Donald Young. In Doubles. When he was 11. And I was 14. 😀

[robed deity]

For the record, I beat Donald Young. In Doubles. When he was 11. And I was 14. 😀

Props to you. I'd brag about that to everyone, even with the age difference and it being doubles. He was an amazing Junior, and I know he's struggled as a pro, but he's still had some nice results.

[Troublemaker]

I don't either, right now. But he's 21 and could get better. Isner, Sock, Harrison, Querry? I suspect not.

Or he could be Donald Young.

Not my point. At 21, Tiafoe has the potential to get better, perhaps to develop into the kind of player who can win a major. I don't think he's peaked yet.

The other Americans I mentioned are older and likely have peaked.

No doubt Tiafoe will get better. I guess I was already commenting on his ceiling, though. That is, if the oddsmakers set "Total Slam Wins for Tiafoe (Career)" at 0.5, I would lean under. Just a lean, though, as his intangibles are great. The Ringer had a nice feature on him yesterday: https://www.theringer.com/2019/1/21/...-american-hope

Anyway, Nadal beat him comfortably in 3 sets. But Nadal is also playing his best harcourt tennis in many years in this event, so I'm not sure it's a significant data point for a tired Tiafoe.

[CDu]

Nadal advances to the semis, eliminating the last American man standing. With Nadal, it's been an interesting ride on the hardcourts. He won the 2017 US Open and made the final of the 2017 Aussie Open (losing to Federer in a classic). And he was playing well in the 2018 US and Aussie Opens before suffering an injury in the quarters (Aussie) and semis (US) and being forced to retire. We'll see if he can stay healthy enough to finish out this tournament. If he can, he stands a good chance of reaching the final and setting up likely yet another Nadal/Djokovic matchup. Health has been a major limitation for Nadal on hardcourts in recent years. It's nice to see him healthy again.

[Troublemaker]

Ouch, Serena was up 5-1 in the 3rd set to Pliskova and then collapsed to lose 6 straight games and the match.