Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 161
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    My guess is what Coach K sees in Cam is someone struggling, someone frustrated that he's struggling, someone that is working tirelessly to execute on the coaching he's being given, and someone that needs to start to show the support of his coach that he is doing everything right.

    I think the fact that Jack is playing more minutes than Cam is the telling sign that the starting nod is more support and confidence building than performance based - insofar as my definition of performance is on-court and not including "attitude" or "work ethic". ...

    Said differently, I think Coach is fully aware that Jack's on-court performance thus far this season is superior to Cam's. And Coach is also fully aware that Cam Reddish has a ceiling that has not been anywhere close to achieved. And thus my conclusion is that Coach is managing the situation as best he believes to grow Cam into his untapped potential while not sacrificing losses.
    I think this has it about right. Coach K has demonstrated through the years a pretty masterful understanding of the psychology of his players -- in fact, I think this is his primary differentiator as a coach, moreso than any Xs and Os magic. And, he's shown an ability (and desire) to motivate through positive reinforcement, not just through negative reinforcement.

    Given Cam's continued hard work on defense and Coach K's much better understanding of Cam's temperment than any of us, it seems that Coach K has made a reasonable determination that not starting him (which would no doubt receive inordinate attention as a "benching" or punishment) would not be the most effective way to help Cam's on-court improvement.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeTrinity11 View Post
    My sense is Jack is tough as nails and he slots in perfectly into the starting lineup with 2 high usage players in RJ and Zion, a distributor in Tre and a rebounding/hustle guy in Javin.

    If Cam is so fragile as to completely lose confidence coming off the bench, do we even want him out there for us in the big conference ACC games and the NCAAT?
    You never played much, did ya?

    I mean, the comment about Cam's fragile confidence is mind boggling. I guess you never played many sports like golf either...confidence is HUGE and it is fragile in some personalities and some ages.

    And Jack may do great as a starter. He may not. We know he's awesome as 6th man. Being "tough as nails" isn't the point.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  3. #43
    Cam is the one Freshman playing like a Freshman. He is good and bad- but the talent and potential is obvious. Nassir Little at UNC is similar. Both seem unable to get out of their own way at times. The college game and the defenses players need to work against are complicated and currently Cam is thinking too much. He needs to simplify his game. K knows what he is doing. He knows that Cam will turn the corner- or at least hopes it will happen. It will be frustrating for several weeks to watch this process. I will continue to yell at the TV as I have for many a Duke Freshman making boneheaded mistakes over the years. Luckily junior Jack has improved significantly.
    dukelifer

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Jason Tatum, Brandon Ingram, and Justice Winslow all went through their freshman wall in their first year. Cam is just going through his earlier than those players.
       

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeTrinity11 View Post
    I think this is putting it mildly though. Cam came into Duke with a HS ranking/repertoire that would suggest he should be an Ingram or Tatum level player and we've seen no indication that he can ever approach that level while in college.

    I have no doubt Cam will improve tremendously in the coming years but I'm not sure its in the team's best interest in its pursuit of a national championship to keep starting him over Jack White, who up to this point has been a better basketball player.
    100% agree. If I could make it 101% I would.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Cam's not going to get better just sitting on the bench. Playing him is a wise investment.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    I am agnostic about the Cam/JW-who-starts debate. The MPG will fall out to how the team is responding on the floor, no matter who starts.

    HOWEVER, we can't afford a slow start against Virginia. Tossing 8 bricks to open the game along with some sloppy fouling will be hard to over come against the pack line and a team that plays slower than oil-based paint drying on a humid day.

    That said, in all other games, I don't think it will matter one way or the other.
    Winner of the 2017 and 2018 DBR Wager Contest - "If you win against the house two years in a row, luck is still your greatest skill."

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Given Cam's continued hard work on defense and Coach K's much better understanding of Cam's temperment than any of us, it seems that Coach K has made a reasonable determination that not starting him (which would no doubt receive inordinate attention as a "benching" or punishment) would not be the most effective way to help Cam's on-court improvement.
    I agree with you that this is likely the way Coach K sees the situation. That being said, I think he (Coach) may be wroing on this one. But he may be right. Time will probably reveal the answer.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    But still, I don't understand the folks who are so resistant to even a temporary a lineup change. Coach K benches guys all the time for performance reasons, including highly ranked recruits. Trust the man, he's a master motivator.
    It's definitely not a horrible idea since they're both going to get a lot of playing time anyway. (I think folks are more resistant to the implication that Coach K isn't ALREADY acting in the team's best interests.)

    Frankly, if Cam has a couple of quick turnovers against FSU that gets them easy baskets and ignites the crowd, we're going to have close to 100% agreement on bringing Cam off the bench (whether people end up admitting it or not).

    That said, I don't think Cam-to-the-bench is going to happen because Cam actually showed an uptick in his play last night. It's a low bar to clear for sure, but I think Duke's going to see if he can continue the new trajectory. If Cam were going to come off the bench, it would've happened last night (before the uptick).

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    I am agnostic about the Cam/JW-who-starts debate. The MPG will fall out to how the team is responding on the floor, no matter who starts.

    HOWEVER, we can't afford a slow start against Virginia. Tossing 8 bricks to open the game along with some sloppy fouling will be hard to over come against the pack line and a team that plays slower than oil-based paint drying on a humid day.

    That said, in all other games, I don't think it will matter one way or the other.

    That's not really true. Last year duke made up 12 points on UVA in 7 minutes of gameplay after a slow start.

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=400986226

    Yes we eventually lost by 2, but the maxim that you can't overcome even small deficits against UVA is false.
    Zion Williamson broke my brain.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    My thoughts are that Coach K knows these players better than any of us, and has proven over time that (a) he has a very fine sense of how best to motivate each individual; and (b) his player personnel decisions are consistently made with the best interests of the team in mind, not based on recruit rankings or pro potential.
    I completely agree with this and want to add that none of have the information necessary to know when or if Coach K should make such a change. But feel free to speculate!

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Yes we eventually lost by 2,
    I rest my case. 😎
       

  13. #53
    When I saw this thread title, I knew it was time to grab some popcorn.

    Hasnít disappointed yet.
       

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    I rest my case. ��
    The claim was that a slow start can't be overcome. We did overcome it and lead for some amount of time in the second half.
    Zion Williamson broke my brain.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston-Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    I rest my case. 😎
    Tyus Jones and Quinn Cook say hello. Down 56-47 with five minutes to play, they win in C'ville 69-63.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post

    That said, I don't think Cam-to-the-bench is going to happen because Cam actually showed an uptick in his play last night. It's a low bar to clear for sure, but I think Duke's going to see if he can continue the new trajectory. If Cam were going to come off the bench, it would've happened last night (before the uptick).
    I agree that Cam started badly with two quick turnovers, but later made some good plays. Hope he can learn from these mistakes. I'm happy with letting coach K make the decisions on who gets to start and play. Will Cam make additional frustrating mistakes as we play on? Almost certainly, but he will no doubt show more improvement. No need to be too hard on him as he is just a freshman trying to find his way.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Derm
    The rote response around here has been that starting spots are earned in practice (point #1). I'm not a fan of the blind "trust in K" mantra but I'm also not privy to team practices. I certainly understand managing/massaging a top recruit's psyche early on (point #2). But once into the ACC schedule, the top five have to be on the floor: point #1 should take precedence over point #2. I do trust in K to tend to this matter.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymax View Post
    The rote response around here has been that starting spots are earned in practice (point #1). I'm not a fan of the blind "trust in K" mantra but I'm also not privy to team practices. I certainly understand managing/massaging a top recruit's psyche early on (point #2). But once into the ACC schedule, the top five have to be on the floor: point #1 should take precedence over point #2. I do trust in K to tend to this matter.
    This is where I am. Without K coming out and saying why he's playing cam, it's impossible to make an argument that he's right or wrong...and while the possibility exists that he's objectively "wrong," it's far more likely that we just don't have the data to arrive at the same conclusion he does.

    A good example might be the missed free throw in the 2010 title game. After the game, some people might have just said "trust in K!!!," but the decision he made is likely statistically the wrong decision. When he explained it, the truth was far more interesting...about how he thought about how we would perform in overtime, with fatigue, and foul trouble, etc, and realized that our chances of winning in OT were not 50/50.

    The point being, simply saying "trust in K" absolves the fan of any sort of thought about WHY K might be right despite appearances, and thus clouds them to questioning when K might be wrong, which does happen.

    Here's a good passage from HPMOR:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
    There's a tale I once heard about some students who came into a physics class, and the teacher showed them a large metal plate near a fire. She ordered them to feel the metal plate, and they felt that the metal nearer the fire was cooler, and the metal further away was warmer. And she said, write down your guess for why this happens. So some students wrote down 'because of how the metal conducts heat', and some students wrote down 'because of how the air moves', and no one said 'this just seems impossible', and the real answer was that before the students came into the room, the teacher turned the plate around."
    "Interesting," said Professor Quirrell. "That does sound similar. Is there a moral?"
    "That your strength as a rationalist is your ability to be more confused by fiction than by reality," said Harry. "If you're equally good at explaining any outcome, you have zero knowledge.
    Simply chanting "trust in K" makes you equally good at explaining any outcome.
    Zion Williamson broke my brain.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Both Cam and Jack have contributed a great deal to our team success this year. They have played similar minutes with Cam scoring more (by 5.6 points a game) and Jack rebounding better (by 4 rebounds a game). They have both excelled in individual and team defense (with Cam leading the team in steals and Jack second in blocks). I expect both to build and get better as the season progresses.

    In my view, quite a few posters are being overly harsh on Cam. He is having a few growing pains but so do most freshman not named RJ, Tre, or Zion. Overall, he has been a very, very good overall player. Cam is special and will prove that over the course of season. He will quiet the critics.
       

  20. #60

    About Trust in K

    This thread has sort of evolved/devolved into an issue of Trust in K, etc...so I thought I'd stir the pot a bit.

    Do I trust in K? Yes, absolutely, I trust that he's been the best person on the planet to coach Duke BB for almost four decades, and that the vast majority of his decisions are the right ones, and some of his decisions have proven spectacular, and his success has been spectacular. I trust in all of that, and that we as Duke fans are truly fortunate to be living through that, especially the ones who suffered in Duke's post Bubas / pre K days - when State, the cheats and Maryland were national powers and Duke was not relevant.

    I also trust that everybody makes mistakes...and...and...I also trust in the theory of the wisdom of having a fresh set of eyes on something at times...a set of eyes far enough away to get the 30 thousand foot view...or the forest for the trees view...whatever cliche / analogy you want to use. I trust in the theory that sometimes a blind spot can develop even among genius level people that are always so close to a situation. I also trust that in many situations, clearly most situations, being close to the situation is what is required to fully understand it. Life ain't easy...this stuff can get complicated...

    IOW...there are some really knowledgeable and intuitive people on DBR for example...and I"m betting that at times, when they disagreed with what K was doing, that from time to time the outsider has been correct.

    And of course, I think a total 100% blind trust in anyone makes for a boring forum. That said, I fully agree with his keeping Cam in the starting lineup so far. I also really support his use of a deeper bench this season too!
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

Similar Threads

  1. Captain Jack White plays like heís auditioning to coach
    By BandAlum83 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-30-2018, 02:31 PM
  2. SB: Duke names head coach, to start in 2018
    By Duvall in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-02-2015, 09:46 AM
  3. RIP Dr. Jack
    By nmduke2001 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-28-2014, 04:49 PM
  4. Jack and Oz, well, just because...
    By JasonEvans in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-11-2013, 11:25 AM
  5. 1M: Jack it Up!
    By dukejunkie in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-09-2007, 03:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •