Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 124
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yes, but Maye was also named first-team All-ACC (and comfortably so). White wouldn't need to put up numbers quite THAT good to make an All-ACC team. Last year, for example, the 3rd team included Ty Jerome (10.3 pts, 3.9 assists) and Omer Yurtseven (13.5 pts, 6.7 rebounds).

    Again, I also definitely don't think White will get there. But I also don't it's completely outlandish depending upon who plays for us next year. If he averages 11 and 7 and Duke wins the ACC? Yeah, I could see him sneaking in there. And I don't know that 11 and 7 is totally unreasonable.
    IMO, Jack should be in the running this year for ACC MIP and SMOTY.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    IMO, Jack should be in the running this year for ACC MIP and SMOTY.
    Sexy Man of the Year? My wife would think so.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Sexy Man of the Year? My wife would think so.
    Well, with all due respect, that sounds like a personal problem.

  4. #64

    All-ACC

    Tre seems destimed for DPOY in the ACC (if not the NCAA) but it would be a travesty if Jack White did not get votes for the ACC All-Defensive team.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by mike88 View Post
    Tre seems destimed for DPOY in the ACC (if not the NCAA) but it would be a travesty if Jack White did not get votes for the ACC All-Defensive team.
    The one hit against Jack's D is he often gets blown by by quick 3s and even 4s. In the whole scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal given Javin/Zion/Bolden in the back line, but it's still a defensive breakdown.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I thought that Quinn Cook broke Wojo's record in 2015?
    Quinn set the Duke record for career a/to ratio. The only individual season he had a better than 3:1 ratio was his freshman season when his a/to was 3.5:1 but he didn't play enough to count.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    I think that's mostly due to this year's offensive talent. Other than Bagley, IMO, there was not much offensive talent last year.
    Putting aside that according to Pomeroy, Duke had the 3rd best offense in the country last season, I'm flabbergasted that you don't think we had "much offensive talent."

    oRating (1st 14 games of 2018-19)
    Jack White: 143.8
    Zion Williamson: 135.8
    Tre Jones: 127.7
    RJ Barrett: 113.9
    Cam Reddish: 95.5
    Alex O'Connell: 112.5

    (I left out Marques and Javin both years, because their usage was/is low and I don't imagine you think their play would have any effect on Alex's)

    oRating (full season 2017-18)
    Marvin Bagley: 127.7
    Wendell Carter: 125.3
    Gary Trent: 124.4
    Grayson Allen: 123.3
    Trevon Duval: 104.3
    Alex O'Connell: 124.3

    We had just as many potent offensive weapons last season as this season. Alex just isn't playing as well this year.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Quinn set the Duke record for career a/to ratio. The only individual season he had a better than 3:1 ratio was his freshman season when his a/to was 3.5:1 but he didn't play enough to count.



    Putting aside that according to Pomeroy, Duke had the 3rd best offense in the country last season, I'm flabbergasted that you don't think we had "much offensive talent."

    oRating (1st 14 games of 2018-19)
    Jack White: 143.8
    Zion Williamson: 135.8
    Tre Jones: 127.7
    RJ Barrett: 113.9
    Cam Reddish: 95.5
    Alex O'Connell: 112.5

    (I left out Marques and Javin both years, because their usage was/is low and I don't imagine you think their play would have any effect on Alex's)

    oRating (full season 2017-18)
    Marvin Bagley: 127.7
    Wendell Carter: 125.3
    Gary Trent: 124.4
    Grayson Allen: 123.3
    Trevon Duval: 104.3
    Alex O'Connell: 124.3

    We had just as many potent offensive weapons last season as this season. Alex just isn't playing as well this year.
    Zion who???? Look at Jack's numbers. He should start over Zion, not Cam

    I know it's early, but those are ridiculous numbers, especially Zion with his usage rates. Bagley was such an incredible college offensive player and yet, seems so ho hum relative to what Zion is doing. And that'd just offense. Zion's D and chemistry contributions are also spectacular.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Putting aside that according to Pomeroy, Duke had the 3rd best offense in the country last season, I'm flabbergasted that you don't think we had "much offensive talent."

    oRating (1st 14 games of 2018-19)
    Jack White: 143.8
    Zion Williamson: 135.8
    Tre Jones: 127.7
    RJ Barrett: 113.9
    Cam Reddish: 95.5
    Alex O'Connell: 112.5

    (I left out Marques and Javin both years, because their usage was/is low and I don't imagine you think their play would have any effect on Alex's)

    oRating (full season 2017-18)
    Marvin Bagley: 127.7
    Wendell Carter: 125.3
    Gary Trent: 124.4
    Grayson Allen: 123.3
    Trevon Duval: 104.3
    Alex O'Connell: 124.3

    We had just as many potent offensive weapons last season as this season. Alex just isn't playing as well this year.
    IMO, there's a lot more to measuring offensive talent than an oRating. You're never going to convince me that Jack White (with the highest oRating) has the most offensive talent on this year's team. The oRatings show Jack rated 30 points higher than RJ. I strongly believe RJ has more offensive talent than Jack.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Quinn set the Duke record for career a/to ratio. The only individual season he had a better than 3:1 ratio was his freshman season when his a/to was 3.5:1 but he didn't play enough to count.



    Putting aside that according to Pomeroy, Duke had the 3rd best offense in the country last season, I'm flabbergasted that you don't think we had "much offensive talent."

    oRating (1st 14 games of 2018-19)
    Jack White: 143.8
    Zion Williamson: 135.8
    Tre Jones: 127.7
    RJ Barrett: 113.9
    Cam Reddish: 95.5
    Alex O'Connell: 112.5

    (I left out Marques and Javin both years, because their usage was/is low and I don't imagine you think their play would have any effect on Alex's)

    oRating (full season 2017-18)
    Marvin Bagley: 127.7
    Wendell Carter: 125.3
    Gary Trent: 124.4
    Grayson Allen: 123.3
    Trevon Duval: 104.3
    Alex O'Connell: 124.3

    We had just as many potent offensive weapons last season as this season. Alex just isn't playing as well this year.
    To be fair, I don't think ORtg is a great tool for assessing potency of an offensive weapon. For example, Jack White is not a better offensive player than Williamson or Barrett (much like Tyler Thornton wasn't a better offensive player than those guys). ORtg tends to favor guys who don't have high usage and shoot primarily only in wide-open circumstances (or only at the rim).

    That said, I think I would perhaps word Jeffrey's statement differently. Last year's team was not high on shot creators. Bagley could get his, as could Allen and Duval. But Trent was more assist-dependent, and to a lesser degree so was Carter. O'Connell was a wild card on that team and played sparingly anyway. Whereas this year's team has four guys who are quite capable of creating their own shot. Again, O'Connell is a wild card on this team and plays sparingly (though a bit more than he did last year, which is the reason his ORtg is lower this year).

    Last year's team also had the problem that their shot creators weren't well paired with each other. Bagley's strengths too overlapped with Carter's, rendering one of them somewhat neutered. Similarly, Duval's strengths really relied on being ball-dominant and driving, and we didn't have a good perimeter-shooting group around him. Which somewhat neutered his offensive value. This year's team - so far at least - has better-fitting pieces. In large part because Jones is better than Duval and all three of the other shot creators are comfortable working from the perimeter in.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    I strongly believe RJ has more offensive talent than Jack.
    I agree. But I strongly do NOT agree that "there was not much offensive talent" on a team with Bagley, Carter, Trent, Allen, and Duval (as well as O'Connell).

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I agree. But I strongly do NOT agree that "there was not much offensive talent" on a team with Bagley, Carter, Trent, Allen, and Duval (as well as O'Connell).
    Lots of talent, not the same blend of talent or cohesiveness. The raw offensive talent (and an ok zone D) got them 1 shot away from the Final Four. Not too shabby.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I agree. But I strongly do NOT agree that "there was not much offensive talent" on a team with Bagley, Carter, Trent, Allen, and Duval (as well as O'Connell).
    Maybe, you should have quoted my entire statement, "Other than Bagley, IMO, there was not much offensive talent last year." That's rather important, since I think Bagley may be the most offensively talented player K has coached at Duke. If Bagley was not on last year's team, then I think last year's team would not have ranked in the top 20 offenses.

    However, upon reflection, I agree, my statement was too strong.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think I would perhaps word Jeffrey's statement differently.
    I think I would too.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    In large part because Jones is better than Duval...
    IMO, pick your Jones, either is better. I'll pick the current version.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    To be fair, I don't think ORtg is a great tool for assessing potency of an offensive weapon. For example, Jack White is not a better offensive player than Williamson or Barrett (much like Tyler Thornton wasn't a better offensive player than those guys). ORtg tends to favor guys who don't have high usage and shoot primarily only in wide-open circumstances (or only at the rim).
    Yeah, I probably shouldn't have included Jack in the previous table since his usage is so low. But that just reinforces the point that last year's team, having had five guys with a usage rate of 19.5% or higher, four of whom had oRatings above 120, had as much or more offensive firepower as this year's team (only three guys with a usage rate of 19.5% or higher, just one of whom has an oRating above 120).

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    Zion was only credited with one block in his impressive stat line last night. But if you watch the highlight video on the front page, three blocks are included.

    The first at 38 seconds likely and reasonably was credited to DeLaurier, but Zion seemed to have a piece of it too.
    The second was at 1:46.
    The third at 3:13 was the most impressive. As Zion just manages to get his fingers on the ball at a height where most would need a ladder, I am guessing the box score missed this one.
    Isn't the third one the one that was (incorrectly) ruled goal tending?
    Last edited by BandAlum83; 01-09-2019 at 03:12 PM.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    No one is a bigger fan of Jack than me around here, but there's a difference between being a GREAT role player and All-ACC, which is usually reserved for players who score much more and carry a bigger offensive load. I can see him improving some offensively as a senior, but he's pretty much going to still be a spot-up shooter next season. Especially if he plays the majority of his minutes at the 3.
    The ACC has three All-ACC teams, right? I see no reason that Jack White cannot make at least the All-ACC third team next season. I think he absolutely has the overall talent, the skills, the desire, and the wherewithal to be that good next season if given the opportunity. Heck, If he shot the ball anywhere close to as much as RJ he would be scoring 20+ points a game THIS season, and with better efficiency.

    I understand your point about White perhaps not getting the opportunity and the necessary minutes that would allow him to achieve the kind of scoring numbers that would enable him to make an All-ACC team next season. However, If given the opportunity I would bet that he could definitely do it.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    The ACC has three All-ACC teams, right? I see no reason that Jack White cannot make at least the All-ACC third team next season. I think he absolutely has the overall talent, the skills, the desire, and the wherewithal to be that good next season if given the opportunity. Heck, If he shot the ball anywhere close to as much as RJ he would be scoring 20+ points a game THIS season, and with better efficiency.
    No, because Jack would have more turnovers than RJ trying to create for himself. The reason Jack is efficient is because he only takes open threes and doesn't do anything else. Which I love -- that's exactly what we need to complement the stars! But Jack's actually a very limited offensive player, and you're underestimating the massive efficiency dropoff that occurs when you go from only taking open threes to creating shots for yourself and teammates.

    I'm completely serious, btw. If Jack tried to be RJ, he'd be sub-100 in efficiency.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    No, because Jack would have more turnovers than RJ trying to create for himself. The reason Jack is efficient is because he only takes open threes and doesn't do anything else.
    Well, maybe he would have more turnovers than RJ, but RJ has quite a few turnovers himself. And Jack does score at least some on the inside, (mainly through dunks).

    As to the comment about taking only open threes, the same could be said about Cam. And Jack is better at it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Well, maybe he would have more turnovers than RJ, but RJ has quite a few turnovers himself. And Jack does score at least some on the inside, (mainly through dunks).

    As to the comment about taking only open threes, the same could be said about Cam. And Jack is better at it.
    lol, Jack can't dribble. I mean, he probably does it better than posters on DBR, but if he tried to create like RJ, he'd be a turnover machine. (And, incidentally, RJ's turnover rate and A:TO ratio are pretty good for the role he's playing.)

    Look, there's a limit to the usefulness of efficiency stats, and there's even misuse / misunderstanding of them. If you honestly think that Jack playing RJ's role would be more efficient than RJ, I don't know what to say.

Similar Threads

  1. MBB: Duke 89, Wake Forest 71 Post-Game Thread
    By JBDuke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 01-14-2018, 09:51 PM
  2. MBB: Wake Forest 82, Duke 72 -- Post-Game Thread
    By JBDuke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 417
    Last Post: 03-08-2014, 06:29 PM
  3. MBB: Duke 83, Wake Forest 59 Post-Game Thread
    By Bob Green in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 01-23-2011, 05:40 PM
  4. MBB: Duke 90, Wake Forest 70 Post-Game Thread
    By Jumbo in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 196
    Last Post: 01-20-2010, 08:57 AM
  5. MBB: Duke 101, Wake Forest 91 Post-Game Thread
    By Bob Green in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 02-24-2009, 02:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •