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  1. #1301
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    USMNT 1-0 final. Moving on.

  2. #1302
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    I checked out some news sources to see who thought which candidates did well, and among the first things I see is Frank Bruni of the NY Times saying Warren 'aced the debate," and then USA Today listed her as one of the losers.

    Only reconfirms my plan to pay only tangential attention for awhile...what may matter more at this point is who can raise big money, and who can't.

  3. #1303
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I checked out some news sources to see who thought which candidates did well, and among the first things I see is Frank Bruni of the NY Times saying Warren 'aced the debate," and then USA Today listed her as one of the losers.

    Only reconfirms my plan to pay only tangential attention for awhile...what may matter more at this point is who can raise big money, and who can't.
    Yeah, a lot of the reporting on debates is "my preferred candidate clearly did extremely well". I have my own thoughts, but I haven't figured out how to write them up for this thread in a way that doesn't cross the line into advocating for certain candidates/policies.

  4. #1304
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Some of these folks seriously need to drop out. My thoughts without personal views towards policies:

    Warren showed a lot of passion and thought for what she believed.

    Booker said pretty things but I missed the substance if it was there.

    Texas On Texas violence, Beto no ganó esa pelea. Castro did well.

    DeBlasio is from New York.

    Everyone else — opportunity missed. (Oh, and opportunity blown by DeBlasio IMO — loud hostility is not really the National Democratic vibe I’m getting these days).

  5. #1305
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I checked out some news sources to see who thought which candidates did well, and among the first things I see is Frank Bruni of the NY Times saying Warren 'aced the debate," and then USA Today listed her as one of the losers.

    Only reconfirms my plan to pay only tangential attention for awhile...what may matter more at this point is who can raise big money, and who can't.
    Most of the "winners & losers" posts I've read this morning have Warren listed in the first bracket. Also, most of them have O'Rourke listed in the second bracket.
    While in such a crowded field it is hard to stand out, it sure helps if you can. Castro got a shout out from many writers, saying that he clearly made a case for why he should be a contender. Beto appears to have done the opposite.
    This hilarious line made that abundantly clear.
    * O'Rourke: I know I already named him as a "loser." But he was so bad that he needs to be on the list twice.
    Ouch!
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/26/polit...ate/index.html
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  6. #1306
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    I'll entertain a pie bet if anyone wants it:

    If the Democrats really run on a platform of eliminating private health insurance, Donald Trump wins re-election.

    It may be a great policy, it may be a terrible policy (not asking or arguing). Either way, though, it is politically suicidal.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I'll entertain a pie bet if anyone wants it:

    If the Democrats really run on a platform of eliminating private health insurance, Donald Trump wins re-election.

    It may be a great policy, it may be a terrible policy (not asking or arguing). Either way, though, it is politically suicidal.
    I have to disagree. If the economy heads south in the next 16 months it won't matter what the Democrats run on, they'll win going away. More than any other policy, expect them to attack the economy. As Bill Clinton famously said, "It's the economy, stupid".

  8. #1308
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I'll entertain a pie bet if anyone wants it:

    If the Democrats really run on a platform of eliminating private health insurance, Donald Trump wins re-election.

    It may be a great policy, it may be a terrible policy (not asking or arguing). Either way, though, it is politically suicidal.
    I'm not taking that bet. I have a very good friend, ex-New York public school teacher with a great pension, union man, very liberal. He has stated several times he will not vote for anyone taking away his private health insurance.

    I really don't understand why some Ds are trying to force this issue. I could understand making it one of the options, that you could pay for a government plan. But then again I don't pay much attention to this issue. Obamacare is now pretty popular, take the win and move on.

    Edit: It's even more popular if you call it the Affordable Care Act.
    Last edited by dudog84; 06-27-2019 at 09:37 AM.

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    If the Democrats really run on a platform of eliminating private health insurance, Donald Trump wins re-election.

    It may be a great policy, it may be a terrible policy (not asking or arguing). Either way, though, it is politically suicidal.
    Does that mean you do not believe Sanders or Warren can beat Trump?

    FWIW, I believe Biden has the best chance of beating Trump.
    Last edited by Jeffrey; 06-27-2019 at 09:40 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    I have to disagree. If the economy heads south in the next 16 months it won't matter what the Democrats run on, they'll win going away. More than any other policy, expect them to attack the economy. As Bill Clinton famously said, "It's the economy, stupid".
    Is this still true? If you favor a more socialistic candidate, then is the economy your primary concern?

  11. #1311
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Does that mean you do not believe Sanders or Warren can beat Trump?

    FWIW, I believe Biden has the best chance of beating Trump.
    I think Warren or Sanders leaves the folks in the middle with a dilemma. And perhaps leads to an independent being willing to jump in the middle and sop up enough votes to re-elect Trump. To me, that seems like the Democrats blowing a lay-up and instead trying to take a contested jump shot.

    I agree that a centrist -- be it Biden or someone else -- has the best chance. I will admit that I am biased towards that political persuasion though so take whatever-sized grain of salt you deem appropriate.

    (And again, not arguing the merits of the policy proposal. Merely commenting that I think it is a third rail issue that gives Trump a big club to wield. You gotta win before you worry about what you're going to do).

  12. #1312
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Is this still true? If you favor a more socialistic candidate, then is the economy your primary concern?
    I'm pretty sure the Social Democrats (who are not, on the balance, true socialists) still care about the economy doing well, the want the economy to do well and​ for it to be managed differently.

  13. #1313
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Wanna guess who was the most Googled candidate last night? Answer surprised me. (Highlight below -- written in magic ink).


    --> Tulsi Gabbard <--

    Link: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-CbFwrU4AIqCpY.jpg

    I also think the fact that where Booker was most-searched is good for him and perhaps bad for Biden.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Is this still true? If you favor a more socialistic candidate, then is the economy your primary concern?
    This looks like it's leading to a policy debate that is forbidden here.
       

  15. #1315
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I'll entertain a pie bet if anyone wants it:

    If the Democrats really run on a platform of eliminating private health insurance, Donald Trump wins re-election.

    It may be a great policy, it may be a terrible policy (not asking or arguing). Either way, though, it is politically suicidal.
    I’m not taking this bet but I think a big factor would be how Trump positioned himself on health care. If his administration continued to pursue actions that would eliminate the most popular aspects of the ACA and the Dems could paint him as favoring profits over, say, protecting pre-existing condition patients then I think a voter would be forced to choose between two extreme positions relative to where the average American is. And there’s an argument that one of those positions promises coverage and the other does not.

    I tend to agree with the general point though that most voters would squirm at a proposal to eliminate private insurance...though polls have shown comfort with a choice-based model that would include a public sector option.
       

  16. #1316
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    Jan 2010
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    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Most of the "winners & losers" posts I've read this morning have Warren listed in the first bracket. Also, most of them have O'Rourke listed in the second bracket.
    While in such a crowded field it is hard to stand out, it sure helps if you can. Castro got a shout out from many writers, saying that he clearly made a case for why he should be a contender. Beto appears to have done the opposite.
    This hilarious line made that abundantly clear.

    Ouch!
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/26/polit...ate/index.html
    FWIW, I thought Castro did the best of the kids table candidates and his primary policy positioning reflected a very current national argument underscored by some of the border pictures. That is to say - he was very topical and relevant, which I think is to a candidate’s benefit.

    Beto had one good game and his people told him he was a sure lottery pick. He’s in the green room now watching himself plummet out of the first round.
       

  17. #1317
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Beto had one good game and his people told him he was a sure lottery pick. He’s in the green room now watching himself plummet out of the first round.
    That may be the best description I have seen, kudos.

    There is time for Beto to rally, but his efforts to date have been swings and misses it seems to me. And Castro did a darn good job claiming the mantle of Texas border boss.

  18. #1318
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Yeah, a lot of the reporting on debates is "my preferred candidate clearly did extremely well". I have my own thoughts, but I haven't figured out how to write them up for this thread in a way that doesn't cross the line into advocating for certain candidates/policies.
    me too, mums the word, not worth getting into skirmishes...

  19. #1319
    In case anyone cares...here is a full debate transcript.

    https://time.com/5615358/2020-first-...te-transcript/

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Is this still true? If you favor a more socialistic candidate, then is the economy your primary concern?
    It's clear that among Independents, a strong economy is Trump's biggest position. Democrats are not afraid to go right at that and talk about how they feel the economy is doing good only at the top. They are more than willing to talk down the economy to their voters. I think you'll see this during the primary season as well as the general election. If the economy heads south, they'll just pile on.

    I think it's a far better strategy than attacking Trump's character. Not that he's bullet proof, but I think everyone that can be swayed one way or the other have already moved. "Trump might be a jerk/misogynist/Satan, but he'll let me keep my health insurance".

    GABBARD: First of all, let’s recognize the situation we’re in, that the American people deserve a president who will put your interests ahead of the rich and powerful. That’s not what we have right now.
    KLOBUCHAR: Well, first, the economy. We know that not everyone is sharing in this prosperity. And Donald Trump just sits in the White House and gloats about what’s going on, when you have so many people that are having trouble affording college and having trouble affording their premiums.

    ----------------

    KLOBUCHAR: My life and my career and my work in the Senate has been about economic opportunity. And to me, this means better childcare for everyone in this country. And when you want an economy that works, you need to have retirement that works, you need to have public schools that work.
    WARREN: So I think of it this way. Who is this economy really working for? It’s doing great for a thinner and thinner slice at the top. It’s doing great for giant drug companies. It’s just not doing great for people who are trying to get a prescription filled.

    It’s doing great for people who want to invest in private prisons, just not for the African-Americans and Latinos whose families are torn apart, whose lives are destroyed, and whose communities are ruined.

    It’s doing great for giant oil companies that want to drill everywhere, just not for the rest of us who are watching climate change bear down upon us.

    When you’ve got a government, when you’ve got an economy that does great for those with money and isn’t doing great for everyone else, that is corruption, pure and simple. We need to call it out. We need to attack it head on. And we need to make structural change in our government, in our economy, and in our country.

    -------------------

    WARREN: I am in this fight because I believe that we can make our government, we can make our economy, we can make our country work not just for those at the top. We can make it work for everyone. And I promise you this: I will fight for you as hard as I fight for my own family.
    O’ROURKE: This economy has got to work for everyone. And right now, we know that it isn’t. And it’s going to take all of us coming together to make sure that it does.

    (SPEAKING IN SPANISH)

    O’ROURKE: Right now, we have a system that favors those who can pay for access and outcomes. That’s how you explain an economy that is rigged to corporations and to the very wealthiest. A $2 trillion tax cut that favored corporations while they were sitting on record piles of cash and the very wealthiest in this country at a time of historic wealth inequality.
    BOOKER: And I’ll tell you this. I live in a low-income black and brown community. I see every single day that this economy is not working for average Americans. The indicators that are being used, from GDP to Wall Street’s rankings, is not helping people in my community. It is about time that we have an economy that works for everybody, not just the wealthiest in our nation.

  20. #1320
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I think Warren or Sanders leaves the folks in the middle with a dilemma. And perhaps leads to an independent being willing to jump in the middle and sop up enough votes to re-elect Trump. To me, that seems like the Democrats blowing a lay-up and instead trying to take a contested jump shot.

    I agree that a centrist -- be it Biden or someone else -- has the best chance. I will admit that I am biased towards that political persuasion though so take whatever-sized grain of salt you deem appropriate.
    I share your bias, but truly believe you're correct. I suspect Trump hopes the Dems nominate Sanders or Warren. I doubt Trump wants to run against Biden, especially, if Obama provided strong support.

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