2020 Presidential Election

[bundabergdevil]

Wasn't he the half-human, half-lizard creature on "Land of the Lost"?

https://landofthelost.fandom.com/wiki/Sleestak

Wow, that's a solid pull. Must spread comments and such...

[SouthernDukie]

Wow, that's a solid pull. Must spread comments and such...

And for extra credit, the name of the one that could talk? Enoch.

[dudog84]

Eleven months.

Also roughly the halfway point for the thread. Things will be heating up after New Years and stay at a fever pitch for months. I wonder if the thread will get to 1,000 pages.

[PackMan97]

Eleven months.

Also roughly the halfway point for the thread. Things will be heating up after New Years and stay at a fever pitch for months. I wonder if the thread will get to 1,000 pages.

If 2016 is an indication. No. We'll misbehave and get it locked many times with lots of posts deleted and posters banned!

[dudog84]

If 2016 is an indication. No. We'll misbehave and get it locked many times with lots of posts deleted and posters banned!

I thought the same thing.

Here's something that could make a big splash, or land with a big thud. Deutsche Bank and Capital One have to hand over Trump financial records to Congress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...les/ar-BBXHMZx

[Jeffrey]

Here's something that could make a big splash, or land with a big thud. Deutsche Bank and Capital One have to hand over Trump financial records to Congress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...les/ar-BBXHMZx

I thought the Ds were focused on the Ukraine issue? Will this be their next impeachment attempt?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I thought the same thing.

Here's something that could make a big splash, or land with a big thud. Deutsche Bank and Capital One have to hand over Trump financial records to Congress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...les/ar-BBXHMZx

Won't that get appealed to the SCOTUS as well? That's where his other cases have headed.

[OldPhiKap]

I imagine that decision will be appealed to the Supremes. They are getting quite the logjam of Trump-related litigation dropped on their doorstep these days which they may or may not let into the house. (Appeal to the Supreme Court is not a matter of right, you have to ask for them to take it and a certain number of justices have to vote to take the case -- otherwise the lower court's ruling stands).

For purposes of this thread, note that any difficult decisions on cases taken by the Court may not be issued until June or July -- shortly before the conventions. Big wild card as to what the Court does, and how Trump reacts to the rulings if he loses, just a few months out from election day.

[Highlander]

I thought the same thing.

Here's something that could make a big splash, or land with a big thud. Deutsche Bank and Capital One have to hand over Trump financial records to Congress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...les/ar-BBXHMZx

There are several of these tax/financial record disclosure suits working their way through the courts. At least one has made it to SCOTUS, which put it on hold IIRC. I expect this one will be appealed to SCOTUS as well. I'm wondering if SCOTUS upholds the current doctrine whether that will be the end of this. I expect that it will not.

John Oliver on HBO's "Last Week Tonight" recently did a deep dive into SLAPP suits. It's worth a listen. SLAPP stands for "Strategic Lawsuit against Public Participation." They are essentially lawsuits with very little legal foundation that are designed to silence, intimidate, punish, and/or waste resources from the defendants. Defendants may eventually win out years later, but many settle to make it stop. When your bankroll is endless, you can essentially keep fighting until the defendant runs out of $, even if your case is without merit. Roughly half of the states have anti-SLAPP laws which require the plaintiff to establish standing pretty quickly. However, that just means more SLAPP filings in states without such laws.

Trump (like many wealthy individuals) have used SLAPP suits in the past to bully others into submission. So it's not surprising to me that he would continue to use the courts to get his preferred outcome. In this case, I get the impression that the legal challenges to releasing his financial records are designed more to delay the release as long as possible. Unfortunately, the law is not on Trump's side here, and his opponent has an unlimited bankroll as well.

I'm not sure what impacts the (eventual) release will have on the election, unless there is a proverbial smoking gun somewhere. Most opinions on the president's personal finances are pretty well baked at this point. Potentially embarrassing status regarding charitable giving or overall net worth are unlikely to move the needle IMO.

[JasonEvans]

I'm not sure what impacts the (eventual) release will have on the election, unless there is a proverbial smoking gun somewhere. Most opinions on the president's personal finances are pretty well baked at this point. Potentially embarrassing status regarding charitable giving or overall net worth are unlikely to move the needle IMO.

He will claim to do all his charitable work through his foundation and will talk about how much it gives away (even if it is giving away money largely donated by others). I don't know what his taxes would show about his net worth as you would need current appraisals to know what his various properties are worth (and I doubt his US taxes have too much detail about his varied international holdings). But, if the taxes show he is "only" worth 2 or 3 billion, as opposed to the 7-10 billion he seems to claim, I cannot fathom that changing anyone's mind about him one bit. Heck, the taxes could show he is up to his eyeballs in debt and that he is really only worth a few hundred million and I'm not sure anyone would really care.

What could matter a little bit would be if he has managed to not pay any taxes for many years due to past business losses and other tax avoidance stuff. While some might say he was just being a savvy businessman, I could see some successful attack lines from Democrats on a president who was fabulously rich but who paid less in taxes than the average middle class American. If they hammered that theme in the right way, it might be persuasive to a few voters... and a few voters might make a big difference.

-Jason "it is interesting that by fighting all this stuff in court, Trump will either succeed in pushing it off past the election... or dumping it onto voters laps a month or two before the election" Evans

[PackMan97]

I'm not sure what impacts the (eventual) release will have on the election, unless there is a proverbial smoking gun somewhere.

I do find it a bit ironic that Trumps request to have Biden and his son investigated for shady dealings has now resulted in Trump and his son being investigated for shady dealings.

I doubt there is a smoking gun that would move the needle.

[Jeffrey]

I do find it a bit ironic that Trumps request to have Biden and his son investigated for shady dealings has now resulted in Trump and his son being investigated for shady dealings.

Definitely ironic and surprising the Rs are not currently trying to investigate Biden and his son. Seems like demanding the Bidens be investigated is a good counter to the impeachment effort.

[dudog84]

I thought the Ds were focused on the Ukraine issue? Will this be their next impeachment attempt?

Yeah, I get what you mean. It's gotta be difficult deciding which issue to go after him on. However, I doubt there is anything "impeachable" in these records. I believe they are all pre-election, so even if they show untoward dealings with Russians, that in itself would not be impeachable. Would be an interesting tidbit in the narrative, though.

[dudog84]

He will claim to do all his charitable work through his foundation and will talk about how much it gives away (even if it is giving away money largely donated by others). I don't know what his taxes would show about his net worth as you would need current appraisals to know what his various properties are worth (and I doubt his US taxes have too much detail about his varied international holdings). But, if the taxes show he is "only" worth 2 or 3 billion, as opposed to the 7-10 billion he seems to claim, I cannot fathom that changing anyone's mind about him one bit. Heck, the taxes could show he is up to his eyeballs in debt and that he is really only worth a few hundred million and I'm not sure anyone would really care.

What could matter a little bit would be if he has managed to not pay any taxes for many years due to past business losses and other tax avoidance stuff. While some might say he was just being a savvy businessman, I could see some successful attack lines from Democrats on a president who was fabulously rich but who paid less in taxes than the average middle class American. If they hammered that theme in the right way, it might be persuasive to a few voters... and a few voters might make a big difference.

-Jason "it is interesting that by fighting all this stuff in court, Trump will either succeed in pushing it off past the election... or dumping it onto voters laps a month or two before the election" Evans

If he's not as rich as he says, that's barely embarrassing. What I think they're hoping for is evidence of criminal activity, i.e. money laundering or illegal tax avoidance. There's all kinds of ways to avoid taxes, they're not all illegal.

[Jeffrey]

Yeah, I get what you mean. It's gotta be difficult deciding which issue to go after him on. However, I doubt there is anything "impeachable" in these records. I believe they are all pre-election, so even if they show untoward dealings with Russians, that in itself would not be impeachable. Would be an interesting tidbit in the narrative, though.

Yep, I thought the Ds had moved on to the Ukraine effort.

Maybe, the Ds are trying to find a post-election coverup on the Russian matter?

[dudog84]

Definitely ironic and surprising the Rs are not currently trying to investigate Biden and his son. Seems like demanding the Bidens be investigated is a good counter to the impeachment effort.

Where have you been? Lindsey Graham is doing this.

[Jeffrey]

If he's not as rich as he says, that's barely embarrassing. What I think they're hoping for is evidence of criminal activity, i.e. money laundering or illegal tax avoidance. There's all kinds of ways to avoid taxes, they're not all illegal.

Agreed, it’s not a good time, in America, to appear extremely wealthy!

Clearly, they’re looking/hoping for criminal activity.

[Jeffrey]

Where have you been? Lindsey Graham is doing this.

I’m talking a united party effort/demand. A party statement like, “Trump is right, the Bidens should be investigated for the good of America”. Helps with the Trump did nothing impeachable argument.

[Reddevil]

Agreed, it’s not a good time, in America, to appear extremely wealthy! Clearly, they’re looking/hoping for criminal activity.

I agree with this and I am willing to be the sacrificial lamb. Attention wealthy people, feel free to dump your burden on me. I will take the heat for you.

[PackMan97]

Agreed, it’s not a good time, in America, to appear extremely wealthy!

This is why I drive a 17 year old Corolla. The folks pan handling at the interstate exits offer me money if I roll down my window.