2020 Presidential Election

[PackMan97]

Wayne Messam has suspended his bid for President. I don't recall him ever registering higher than 1% in any poll so he won't exactly be missed. I am unsure where his dozens of supporters will now look... perhaps Joe Sestack?

He should realize you can't mount a serious campaign for President if you've only been mayor of a small town.

[howardlander]

I agree, chances of conviction in the Senate have always been, and continue to be, minimal...I guess they see value in both creating bad pub for Trump, plus placating their own supporters who felt the mounting number of issues required impeachment.

Allow me to suggest one other possible motivation: they honestly believe that Trump's actions merit removal from office. I'm not stating an opinion about whether or not I agree, but I do think we should at least allow for the possibility of sincere belief and love of country as motives...

Howard

[budwom]

Allow me to suggest one other possible motivation: they honestly believe that Trump's actions merit removal from office. I'm not stating an opinion about whether or not I agree, but I do think we should at least allow for the possibility of sincere belief and love of country as motives...

Howard

I'm not disagreeing with that at all, I was just trying to stay inbounds with respect to board boundaries, etc...

[howardlander]

I'm not disagreeing with that at all, I was just trying to stay inbounds with respect to board boundaries, etc...

Yeah, me too. That's why I said I am not stating an opinion about whether or not I agree that Trump should be impeached. Plenty of places on the internet I can get into a flame war if I want!

Howard

[bundabergdevil]

We've all been speculating on the 2020 horse race but The Atlantic just upped the crystal ball, what if game with this article: The Weird Scenario That Pits President Pelosi Against Citizen Trump in 2020.

There are a lot of what ifs and constitutional this and thats in there so just sharing as general presidential election candy.

Far more interesting today is the VP's office's reaction to today's testimony. First time I've felt like Pence has publicly squirmed and attempted to put daylight between him and POTUS.

[budwom]

^ good time for Pence to hang out in the basement and watch a lot of sports on TV. He's in some awkward positions right now, isn't he?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just like Greta Thunberg, Joe Biden is a time traveler.

Hours before the fifth Democratic debate was set to begin, Biden's campaign on Wednesday sent out a fundraising email obviously not intended for release until the debate ended. The message hit inboxes roughly eight hours early.

"I'm leaving the fifth Democratic debate now," read the very first sentence of this email, sent long before the debate even started. "I hope I made you proud out there and I hope I made it clear to the world why our campaign is so important." Well, he made clear why sending prepared emails at a time that actually makes sense is so important, at least.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-jus...205400939.html

[bundabergdevil]

^ good time for Pence to hang out in the basement and watch a lot of sports on TV. He's in some awkward positions right now, isn't he?

But not nearly as awkward for Pence as sitting in a conference room, alone save for a non-wife female...

Just like Greta Thunberg, Joe Biden is a time traveler.

Must be a new line on the Amtraks...

[OldPhiKap]

And . . . another debate that changes little. Except Joe looks and acts REALLY old. And Pete did not get torpedoed.

[CameronBornAndBred]

And . . . another debate that changes little. Except Joe looks and acts REALLY old. And Pete did not get torpedoed.

His yelling at me for his closing argument didn't inspire me to vote for him. Inspired me to get off his lawn, but not to run to the polls on his behalf. (PS, even though I said I wouldn't watch, I did tune into the closing arguments.)

[El_Diablo]

TIME reports that Pompeo plans to resign as Secretary of State:

https://time.com/5732232/mike-pompeo...un-state-exit/

Apparently he will aim to run for a Senate seat in Kansas.

[budwom]

one nuance in this impeachment affair in which I find some black humor (gotta stay chipper) is the assertion that Trump didn't care if Ukraine investigated the Bidens and investigated whether Ukraine (not Russia) messed with the 2016 election..he only wanted them to announce they were investigating...I can definitely see the logic in that...

[Acymetric]

His yelling at me for his closing argument didn't inspire me to vote for him. Inspired me to get off his lawn, but not to run to the polls on his behalf. (PS, even though I said I wouldn't watch, I did tune into the closing arguments.)

I forgot it was on and didn't watch (I was watching unc struggle against Elon anyway), care to paraphrase his closing argument?

[throatybeard]

Sanders, and to a lesser extent Biden, do not seem to understand how off-brand/counterproductive/out-of-touch/not inclusive/bad-looking old white men yelling is, to most of the democratic primary electorate--including most progressive white men even.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I forgot it was on and didn't watch (I was watching unc struggle against Elon anyway), care to paraphrase his closing argument?

I wasn't paying too close attention, was mostly on as background noise. That's why I looked up when he started yelling at me. He got grouchy. He was trying to be inspiring, but it came across as angry. You can watch it here. (at the very end)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM9DKxrQrvI

[Nick]

Vanity Fair digs into polling data on the impeachment and its effect on voters and concludes it's not helping the Democrats:

Alas, for the Democrats, the promising numbers of late October and early November rapidly dissipated, and polling numbers have reverted to a level more consistent with long-term opinions on President Trump. In the latest Politico/Morning Consult poll, released on November 19, Independents opposed impeachment and removal from office 46% to 39%, a number close to the rolling averages of the last few weeks. It is notable that the poll was fielded after the first public impeachment hearings.

...The data, along with supplementary interviews, illustrates an electorate that believes the impeachment inquiry is connected to the priorities of politicians and the media—not of ordinary voters—and an electorate confused and dispirited by the nonstop parade of Washington scandals...

...By massive margins, Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me. Impeachment proceedings are viewed as bread and circuses for the anti-Trump crowd in Washington and the media—or, as Stanford political science professor Morris Fiorina described it to me, “entertainment and confirmation.” That’s a dangerous perception as Democrats approach one of the most consequential and fraught elections of our times.

[OldPhiKap]

Vanity Fair digs into polling data on the impeachment and its effect on voters and concludes it's not helping the Democrats:

Yup, no minds are changing. My view:

1. Dems had to do something given Trump’s stiff-arming of the House, or they would be written off as weak and feckless. And once the Dems started the process, the result has to be a Bill of Impeachment. So, Trump forced this chain of events and as they say in poker — the hand played itself from there.

2. Impeachment will not end in removal, but will fire up both bases — Dems more than Reps for several reasons.

3. No matter the close polling, this ultimately hurts Trump more than the Dems. Being against impeachment does not equate to approving of Trump’s actions with some part of the electorate.

[Nick]

From CNN comes a story that will feed into a Trump-friendly narrative and be used to counter the impeachment narrative: an FBI agent is under criminal investigation for altering documents in the Russia investigation:

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

[Indoor66]

From CNN comes a story that will feed into a Trump-friendly narrative and be used to counter the impeachment narrative: an FBI agent is under criminal investigation for altering documents in the Russia investigation:

Sounds like a reasonable reaction to the story linked. If proven it is possible fraud on the court - a very serious matter for any lawyer or case. Fruit of the poisonous tree and all that.

[CameronBornAndBred]

From CNN comes a story that will feed into a Trump-friendly narrative and be used to counter the impeachment narrative: an FBI agent is under criminal investigation for altering documents in the Russia investigation:

And now Graham has initiated an investigation of Joe Biden and his son. Regardless of what he finds, there is no way this does not affect his candidacy.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday requesting documents related to former vice president Joe Biden and his communications with Ukrainian officials, a step seen as a GOP effort to counter the House impeachment investigation of President Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...Pkt?li=BBnb7Kz

There will be an irony if the State Department turns over records to Graham but continues to deny records to the impeachment inquiry.