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  1. #4201
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    But she but loses in politics, where voters like warmth and generosity of spirit.
    To be fair, not all candidates can replicate Trump's sweet and kind style.

  2. #4202
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    To be fair, not all candidates can replicate Trump's sweet and kind style.
    Interestingly, the Guardian felt that she won going away. I know they are a British paper and so not necessarily indicative of what people thought here but still their viewpoint is worth something, even if only a little.

  3. #4203
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Vermont
    I checked out CNN, the NY Times and Washington Post today, and their winners and losers were amazingly inconsistent...beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

  4. #4204
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I checked out CNN, the NY Times and Washington Post today, and their winners and losers were amazingly inconsistent...beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
    Yup, it's always fun to compare those. A couple consistents were Biden, Steyer and Beto were all losers.
    My favorite comment about Steyer was that when people walk away talking more about your tie than what you said, you didn't have a good debate.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  5. #4205
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Chicago

    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Elizabeth Warren failed to acknowledge Biden's claim that he had gotten votes to help pass her bill to establish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Instead, she pointedly referred to the support she received from President Obama. OK, so Liz wins the high school debate. But she but loses in politics, where voters like warmth and generosity of spirit.
    I thought Biden came across horribly in that exchange. Interrupting Warren. Loudly talking over her. Her response wasn't as dignified as it could have been, but Biden's approach was terrible. I thought he lost more points than she did. Just one voter though.

  6. #4206
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    My favorite comment about Steyer was that when people walk away talking more about your tie than what you said, you didn't have a good debate.
    ... or, you wore a Garcia tie.
       

  7. #4207
    Bad news for Biden, he's running out of cash!

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/polit...ate/index.html

    Joe Biden, the former vice president of the United States and the 2020 Democratic front-runner from the day he entered the race officially in the spring, ended September with less than $9 million in the bank after spending more money than he raised in the previous three months.
    SIREN.
    Then consider this: Biden's total cash on hand is less than all of his main rivals for the Democratic nomination, including even California Sen. Kamala Harris ($10.5 million) who has dropped precipitously in polling over recent months. Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders ($33.7 million) has more than three times more left to spend than Biden, while Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren ($25.7 million) and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg ($23.4 million) have well more than double Biden's total.

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Bad news for Biden, he's running out of cash!

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/polit...ate/index.html
    Those of us old enough to remember his failed presidential campaigns and the Anita Hill hearings have been warning that Biden as a candidate is better in thought than in practice. He is a lousy campaigner. That would be bad enough by itself but he has a lot of baggage from being in politics for as long as he has and it would take someone fairly nimble of thought to get out from under. He is not that person.

  9. #4209
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SueAxe View Post
    Those of us old enough to remember his failed presidential campaigns and the Anita Hill hearings have been warning that Biden as a candidate is better in thought than in practice. He is a lousy campaigner. That would be bad enough by itself but he has a lot of baggage from being in politics for as long as he has and it would take someone fairly nimble of thought to get out from under. He is not that person.
    Interesting, much of that paragraph would make sense if you changed "Biden" to "Hillary"...and we all know how that went.

  10. #4210
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Bad news for Biden, he's running out of cash!

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/16/polit...ate/index.html
    Quote Originally Posted by SueAxe View Post
    Those of us old enough to remember his failed presidential campaigns and the Anita Hill hearings have been warning that Biden as a candidate is better in thought than in practice. He is a lousy campaigner. That would be bad enough by itself but he has a lot of baggage from being in politics for as long as he has and it would take someone fairly nimble of thought to get out from under. He is not that person.
    Hard to believe that Mayor Pete is sitting on twice as much cash as Joe. But then again, as SueAxe says -- maybe it's not that hard to believe. Pete had a very good performance and may punch up to be the moderate-in-waiting if Klobuchar cannot qualify for the next debate. (Still baffled by Kamala's fade).


    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    Interesting, much of that paragraph would make sense if you changed "Biden" to "Hillary"...and we all know how that went.
    I don't think that Biden has anywhere near the high negative/disapproval figures that Hillary had. But I agree that Biden, like Hillary, has a lot of establishment support but it may be mile-wide/inch-deep.

    We have four major candidates who are in their 70's. Joe is the only one to me that really just projects "old." Trump, Bernie and Warren look like energizer bunnies in comparison.

  11. #4211
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    Interesting, much of that paragraph would make sense if you changed "Biden" to "Hillary"...and we all know how that went.
    Those comparisons can only be pushed so far. A lot of things happened to Hillary that did not happen to Joe and visa versa.

  12. #4212
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by SueAxe View Post
    Those comparisons can only be pushed so far. A lot of things happened to Hillary that did not happen to Joe and visa versa.
    And . . . Hillary did get about 3 million more votes than Trump despite Comey dropping a bomb on her less than two weeks out. The late deciders broke against her something like 4:1 IIRC.

  13. #4213
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Hard to believe that Mayor Pete is sitting on twice as much cash as Joe. But then again, as SueAxe says -- maybe it's not that hard to believe. Pete had a very good performance and may punch up to be the moderate-in-waiting if Klobuchar cannot qualify for the next debate. (Still baffled by Kamala's fade).




    I don't think that Biden has anywhere near the high negative/disapproval figures that Hillary had. But I agree that Biden, like Hillary, has a lot of establishment support but it may be mile-wide/inch-deep.

    We have four major candidates who are in their 70's. Joe is the only one to me that really just projects "old." Trump, Bernie and Warren look like energizer bunnies in comparison.
    So, let me understand.

    Sanders just had a heart attack or bypass or something, and Biden makes him look like an Energizer bunny.

    That's not good, Joey D-Ware.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  14. #4214
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I've read a few posts surmising that Ukraine and Syria won't play in Peoria...but I'm getting the feeling that it's not true. At least not in this case.
    Trump is truly digging himself into a hole with some of his diplomatic positions, and the GOP folks in Congress are not happy at all. They may get to the point that they decide it is best to cut and run. I didn't think that would be possible, even just a couple weeks ago, but there is a shifting wind.
    How does their own stance play out in the election? I have no idea. I don't see them nominating another person, but it may make a few folks rethink thoughts when an impeachment vote rolls around.
    Of course, that whole scenario is a long shot, but when the voting public is laying out a feasible road to a Blue White House in the polls, anything is possible.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  15. #4215
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Athens, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Elizabeth Warren failed to acknowledge Biden's claim that he had gotten votes to help pass her bill to establish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Instead, she pointedly referred to the support she received from President Obama. OK, so Liz wins the high school debate. But she but loses in politics, where voters like warmth and generosity of spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago 1995 View Post
    I thought Biden came across horribly in that exchange. Interrupting Warren. Loudly talking over her. Her response wasn't as dignified as it could have been, but Biden's approach was terrible. I thought he lost more points than she did. Just one voter though.
    I agree more with Chicago's interpretation. To me, Biden appeared to not want to let Warren claim credit for the CFPB, after he had just proclaimed that he was the only one who had done "big things" in the past (which was a ridiculous overstatement). And he seemed very angry about it for some reason (I have a theory as to why, but it's rather speculative).

    Warren, who: 1. clearly doesn't feel like Biden actually did very much in this case, 2. wants to push back on the narrative that Biden can claim credit for everything in the Obama administration, and 3. has historical beef with Biden, was not going to just roll over for Biden after that interjection, so gave the backhanded compliment to Obama "and everyone else who helped."

    That's even leaving aside the gender subtext that I picked up on even without my wife pointing it out. I suspect that the exchange won't change many people's minds, though, as I think their interpretation will tend to line up with their prior preferences.

  16. #4216
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    I agree more with Chicago's interpretation. To me, Biden appeared to not want to let Warren claim credit for the CFPB, after he had just proclaimed that he was the only one who had done "big things" in the past (which was a ridiculous overstatement). And he seemed very angry about it for some reason (I have a theory as to why, but it's rather speculative).

    Warren, who: 1. clearly doesn't feel like Biden actually did very much in this case, 2. wants to push back on the narrative that Biden can claim credit for everything in the Obama administration, and 3. has historical beef with Biden, was not going to just roll over for Biden after that interjection, so gave the backhanded compliment to Obama "and everyone else who helped."

    That's even leaving aside the gender subtext that I picked up on even without my wife pointing it out. I suspect that the exchange won't change many people's minds, though, as I think their interpretation will tend to line up with their prior preferences.
    Here is the take, agreeing with Sage, of Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin:

    Finally, she awkwardly thanked President Barack Obama for helping to pass legislation for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, pointedly refusing to credit Biden, who had just explained his role in rounding up votes. It was not a classy moment, eliciting some negative murmurs from the crowd.
    Note the reference to audience reaction. Easy enough to say, "I thank you Joe and also President Obama, who made sure the CFPB was in the final version of Dodd-Frank."

    Kindly,
    Sage
    'But please note that I always penalize champion debaters appearing on a political debate. And then there's the champion of all debaters, Ted Cruz, who was so good at Princeton he has a national debate award named for him'
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 10-16-2019 at 05:52 PM. Reason: More but not better verbiage
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  17. #4217
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I don't see them nominating another person, but it may make a few folks rethink thoughts when an impeachment vote rolls around.
    If they’re nominating Trump, then should a true R strategically vote to impeach? It could be R career suicide if Sanders or Warren win in 2020.
       

  18. #4218
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    I've read a few posts surmising that Ukraine and Syria won't play in Peoria...but I'm getting the feeling that it's not true. At least not in this case.
    Of course things are always "subject to change", especially in the world of politics. But based on some casual conversations I've had with about half a dozen big time Trump supporters, I'm sticking to my prediction that the Syria/Turkey/leaving the Kurds in the lurch will NOT hurt Trump with his base. That's different than saying it will hurt him with GOP lawmakers in Washington. Many of them are absolutely livid (as shown by today's House vote to roundly rebuke the POTUS). But I still think middle American conservatives are more in line with Trump's way of thinking on this issue of getting out of wars.

    And yes, this is a truly bizarre dynamic because these same middle American conservatives, just 5 years ago, would have screamed bloody murder if Obama had done the same thing to the Kurds. But I'm certainly open to being proven wrong.

  19. #4219
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Of course things are always "subject to change", especially in the world of politics. But based on some casual conversations I've had with about half a dozen big time Trump supporters, I'm sticking to my prediction that the Syria/Turkey/leaving the Kurds in the lurch will NOT hurt Trump with his base. That's different than saying it will hurt him with GOP lawmakers in Washington. Many of them are absolutely livid (as shown by today's House vote to roundly rebuke the POTUS). But I still think middle American conservatives are more in line with Trump's way of thinking on this issue of getting out of wars.

    And yes, this is a truly bizarre dynamic because these same middle American conservatives, just 5 years ago, would have screamed bloody murder if Obama had done the same thing to the Kurds. But I'm certainly open to being proven wrong.
    Two risks to Trump:

    1. Hurts with the voters, both in terms of the substantive issue of the Kurds and ISIS and the perception of accommodation to dictators.

    2. Provides a reason to remove the President in the Senate, if GOP Senators think that Trump is a danger to national security or, more likely, a sure loser in 2020. Not necessary to be part of impeachment charges to sway the vote.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #4220
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Of course things are always "subject to change", especially in the world of politics. But based on some casual conversations I've had with about half a dozen big time Trump supporters, I'm sticking to my prediction that the Syria/Turkey/leaving the Kurds in the lurch will NOT hurt Trump with his base. That's different than saying it will hurt him with GOP lawmakers in Washington. Many of them are absolutely livid (as shown by today's House vote to roundly rebuke the POTUS). But I still think middle American conservatives are more in line with Trump's way of thinking on this issue of getting out of wars.

    And yes, this is a truly bizarre dynamic because these same middle American conservatives, just 5 years ago, would have screamed bloody murder if Obama had done the same thing to the Kurds. But I'm certainly open to being proven wrong.
    Of course, at least according Nate Silver, Trump needs more than his base to get reelected.

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