2020 Presidential Election

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Sure, and hope my comment was not taken to state otherwise. My comment was in reference to the notion that this is a one-sided document without any chance of rebuttal. There is no "rebuttal" of facts that are stipulated to by both sides. Which, other than some new details, seems to be the case. Trump admits it; Giuliani admits it; the memorandum of transcript speaks for itself.

Sorry if I did not articulate my point well, my bad.

We live in a universe with a Flat Earth Society. Anything can have a rebuttal, facts notwithstanding.

[left_hook_lacey]

We live in a universe with a Flat Earth Society. Anything can have a rebuttal, facts notwithstanding.

Don't forgot about the UNC ethics department.

[Chicago 1995]

IMO, there are two issues:

1. Can Trump do it regarding any U.S. citizen?

2. Why did Trump want the information?

Has Trump (I'm not really watching this) admitted he "was asking for assistance in influencing our election by asking for help in digging up dirt on a rival"?

There are more than two issues. You can't do this analysis without the consideration of context -- both Biden's status as a candidate for the Presidency *and* to a lesser extent the context of Russian involvement in the 2016 election.

[budwom]

As so often happens, there seems to be a lot of focus now on an alleged White House cover up...deja vu all over again I guess.

[Jeffrey]

There are more than two issues. You can't do this analysis without the consideration of context -- both Biden's status as a candidate for the Presidency *and* to a lesser extent the context of Russian involvement in the 2016 election.

There will be multiple versions of context.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/09...investigation/

Why did Trump want the information?

[sagegrouse]

To be fair, the memorandum of transcript released by the White House itself yesterday -- as well as the public statements of Trump and Giuliani -- confirm the broad parts of this whistleblower report. I have not heard any defense that the facts as broadly alleged are not true, and in fact the principals themselves admit the substance of the allegations.

Aren't we just quibbling over new details, like the allegation that there is a verbatim transcript that was locked down by the White House?

"Verbatim transcript?" Such as from a recording? I believe recordings fell out of favor with the disclosures of Col. Alexander Butterfield, or, as better known, the "sepat noxin."

Listeners take notes and prepare the closest equivalent of a transcript afterwards.

[luvdahops]

Gore had some strong policies, but had all the charisma of a lawn chair. "Climate change" seemed like such a silly priority back then...

He has also tried to at least partially reinvent himself as some sort of fire-breathing populist, and run away from the thoughtful technocrat image that he had otherwise spent his whole career building. This may have been part of the general effort to distance himself from Clinton, but still came off as pretty disingenuous to many.

[sagegrouse]

Well, not exactly. Since the concern is that the president was asking for assistance in influencing our election by asking for help in digging up dirt on a rival, that would not be present if he was making the same request about the head of Google. It may still be a potentially impeachable offense, depending on why he wanted that information and I know I am not familiar enough with the relevant laws to know whether the reason for the request is an element of whatever crime is under consideration. Bottom line, though, given the narrative out there, this is not an apples to apples comparison.

Well, SueAxe, the statute deals with "foreign assistance."

[OldPhiKap]

No one throws Rudy in a corner:

He also said he had more text messages, five or six, that indicate the State Department was encouraging his work in Ukraine.

"I'm going to use them to protect myself if and when I need them," Giuliani said.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/giuliani-denies-charges-whistleblower-complaint-ukraine/index.html

[Chicago 1995]

There will be multiple versions of context.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/09...investigation/

Why did Trump want the information?

Why did Trump withhold the aid?

[dudog84]

No one throws Rudy in a corner:



https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/polit...ine/index.html

There's going to be a lot of rear-covering and finger-pointing. Who shoots first?

Edit: Oh, and you're mixing Roy-isms with Dirty Dancing.

[CameronBornAndBred]

No one throws Rudy in a corner:



https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/polit...ine/index.html

And you can be sure he'll get the chance to stand by those words when his phone and those texts are subpoenaed. Curious to see how long that takes. (If a subpoena isn't beaten by a search warrant.)

[OldPhiKap]

And you can be sure he'll get the chance to stand by those words when his phone and those texts are subpoenaed. Curious to see how long that takes. (If a subpoena isn't beaten by a search warrant.)

I thought it really odd a day or two ago when Rudy had a TV interview, held up his phone, and said he had the proof "right here" that he was working at the direction of the State Department. Who volunteers to investigators that you have evidence, let alone tell them exactly where it is?

Now it's clear -- that message was for the Administration.

[El_Diablo]

Lead headlines as of a couple minutes ago:

CNN: Trump sought interference in election and White House tried to cover it up, allegation says
New York Times: Whistle-Blower Alleged White House Cover-Up of Ukraine Call
Washington Post: Whistleblower claimed Trump abused his office
NBC News: White House officials acted to 'lock down' record of Trump-Ukraine call, whistleblower complaint says
Fox News: Intel chief’s patience with Schiff wears thin after hours of questioning on whistleblower complaint

[Rich]

Lead headlines as of a couple minutes ago:

CNN: Trump sought interference in election and White House tried to cover it up, allegation says
New York Times: Whistle-Blower Alleged White House Cover-Up of Ukraine Call
Washington Post: Whistleblower claimed Trump abused his office
NBC News: White House officials acted to 'lock down' record of Trump-Ukraine call, whistleblower complaint says
Fox News: Intel chief’s patience with Schiff wears thin after hours of questioning on whistleblower complaint

As a NYT reader, my primary takeaway is whether "whistleblower" should get a hyphen!

(Oh yeah, Fox is "different")

[golfinesquire]

Well, SueAxe, the statute deals with "foreign assistance."

I need a bit more explanation to understand your answer. I am not trying to start a fight at all. I just am not sure how the foreign assistance component effects the answer that I gave. Thanks for more detail.

[Kdogg]

Anecdotal analysis: drove I-26 and I-95 through South Carolina and saw 6 Tulsi billboards and no other presidential ads on either side of the aisle. Surprising.

They’ve been around the state for months and not just on the interstates. There is one in my area too. I’m not sure why. She would never have a chance in SC.

[alteran]

They’ve been around the state for months and not just on the interstates. There is one in my area too. I’m not sure why. She would never have a chance in SC.

More anecdotal evidence— we drive through central Virginia between 95 and 81 to avoid DC when going up north. We drive this route multiple times a year. Since 2015, there have been a very significant number of extremely large Trump signs near the entryways to various farms and near the very small towns there.

I didn’t see any as I passed through what I’ve come to think of as Trump country a few weeks back.

This is totally anecdotal, and the polls don’t show a drop off in Trump enthusiasm among supporters. But I do find it interesting.

[golfinesquire]

"Verbatim transcript?" Such as from a recording? I believe recordings fell out of favor with the disclosures of Col. Alexander Butterfield, or, as better known, the "sepat noxin."

Listeners take notes and prepare the closest equivalent of a transcript afterwards.

Since the memorandum that was released was in transcript form, it is hard to know what your complaint is. The OP did not use the word verbatim. And up further in the thread was a discussion of how no one tape records any more.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Trump hasn't taken many questions so far after this morning, but he did take time out of his day to make what many could surmise as a veiled threat.

President Trump on Thursday morning told a crowd of staff from the United States Mission to the United Nations that he wants to know who provided information to a whistle-blower about his phone call with the president of Ukraine, saying that whoever did so was “close to a spy” and that “in the old days,” spies were dealt with differently.

The remark stunned people in the audience, according to a person briefed on what took place, who had notes of what the president said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/26/u...lower-spy.html

This is going to get darker.