2020 Presidential Election

[OldPhiKap]

You know no one thinks Beto can win because they all spent the entire gun control part of the debate talking about how great Beto handled the whole thing. That said, I think Beto is having a fairly good debate thus far.

I agree that Biden seems less sharp than most of the others, his answers just don't seem as coherent, like he is floundering around to make points. He rarely has applause lines or the kind of zingers that make headlines after the debate is done. That said, I think Biden scored a bit early on when he talked about Sanders and Warren not being able to pay for their plans and they both had somewhat weak responses to that. He should have pounced on that more than he did.

I'm having trouble picking a winner... not much I have seen to move the needle.

Tie should go to the leaders, but the Dem structure doesn’t knock anyone out. Are we really gonna have another three hours of this next month? Now with maybe two nights again since Steyer qualified?!? Good Lord please no.

Pick a nominee and call the question. Everyone is ready to choose.

[bundabergdevil]

Tie should go to the leaders, but the Dem structure doesn’t knock anyone out. Are we really gonna have another three hours of this next month? Now with maybe two nights again since Steyer qualified?!? Good Lord please no.

Pick a nominee and call the question. Everyone is ready to choose.

I’m sort of thinking that the longer more people are on the stage is to Biden’s benefit as the front runner. I’ve not seen consistent coherence from him and in a contracted debate that allows him more time, I suspect some of his weaknesses become more pronounced.

Biden still seems to be a pretty darn good retail politician though so who knows...

[Wander]

Yup. Not sure how a 2% Castro trying to torpedo Biden as a fading senior, or a Tulsi Gabbard torpedoing a surging Harris last time, helps the Dems. Or a 0.5% DeBlasio stalking Biden on every chance possible last time helped.

I know the Dems want to appear open and fair after Bernie backers made last time around. But damn, all this does is help Trump by letting minor players attack the leaders.

And folks wonder why the GOP is squelching as many primaries as they can.

I'm not convinced this actually hurts Democrats at all. There are plenty of examples of crowded fields producing someone who wins the election... like Trump. In fact, I think it's possible that keeping things prolonged helps Democrats by giving Trump less time to brand the nominee with whatever silly insult he comes up with.

Castro (whose attack on Biden was not just dumb and petty, but incorrect) and Klobuchar should drop out. There's no path forward and they don't really bring anything interesting to the table. I'd like to see Yang drop out too with the silly stunts he's now basing his campaign on. The other 7 have enough to continue on one more time I think. It's (perhaps unfortunately) a long road.

[dudog84]

You know no one thinks Beto can win because they all spent the entire gun control part of the debate talking about how great Beto handled the whole thing. That said, I think Beto is having a fairly good debate thus far.

I agree that Biden seems less sharp than most of the others, his answers just don't seem as coherent, like he is floundering around to make points. He rarely has applause lines or the kind of zingers that make headlines after the debate is done. That said, I think Biden scored a bit early on when he talked about Sanders and Warren not being able to pay for their plans and they both had somewhat weak responses to that. He should have pounced on that more than he did.

I'm having trouble picking a winner... not much I have seen to move the needle.

But he's going to need their support and their followers if he is the nominee. Maybe he's just a sly old dog, pulling the old rope-a-dope.

He's the clear leader, with a solid but not commanding lead. He just doesn't want the big screw-up. If this debate changed nothing, that's to his advantage.

[JasonEvans]

Pick a nominee and call the question. Everyone is ready to choose.

Are you kidding? I am not nearly ready to choose. Right now the only candidates in double digits are all over the age of 70. Two of them are so lefty as to leave me questioning whether they can win a General Elex and the third seems to largely be campaigning on "remember when I was still in my 60s and everyone thought I was the cool uncle?" Plus, why would we call the question when it appears no candidate is able to get the support of more than about 1 in 4 Democrats? How about we wait until someone hits 40% in a poll, ok?

I think any process that gives Booker and Buttigieg and (to a lesser extent) Beto and Kamala more time to consolidate support is fine with me as I think those folks have the best chance of winning against Trump.

-Jason "the pundits seem to be saying that Castro blew it with his attack on Biden and that Booker and Beto had good debates. Biden is being praised for not having a bad debate... also, everyone agrees that Warren is really smart" Evans

[Wander]

I think any process that gives Booker and Buttigieg and (to a lesser extent) Beto and Kamala more time to consolidate support is fine with me as I think those folks have the best chance of winning against Trump.

This is not a sentiment I see expressed often, but I agree with this take. These 4 would be the best candidates for the general election IMO.

I suppose the most likely scenario is still Biden winning in the end, though.

[dudog84]

This is not a sentiment I see expressed often, but I agree with this take. These 4 would be the best candidates for the general election IMO.

I suppose the most likely scenario is still Biden winning in the end, though.

I think Buttigieg is by far the best of that bunch, but it's not his time yet. He needs to win a higher office first, like Indiana Governor or Senator. Booker has not impressed me. I thought Harris had a lot of political potential, but this campaign has exposed some weaknesses. Doesn't mean she won't be formidable in the future. But also, sometimes a person's moment passes. O'Rourke's claim to fame is that he lost to Ted Cruz. That doesn't impress me either.

If Biden wins the nomination, I'm starting to wonder if Klobuchar makes sense for the VP slot. I've always thought it would be Harris, but California is not in play. A woman from the upper Midwest, from a state that borders Wisconsin and Iowa, could be the smart move.

[bundabergdevil]

Are you kidding? I am not nearly ready to choose. Right now the only candidates in double digits are all over the age of 70. Two of them are so lefty as to leave me questioning whether they can win a General Elex and the third seems to largely be campaigning on "remember when I was still in my 60s and everyone thought I was the cool uncle?" Plus, why would we call the question when it appears no candidate is able to get the support of more than about 1 in 4 Democrats? How about we wait until someone hits 40% in a poll, ok?

I think any process that gives Booker and Buttigieg and (to a lesser extent) Beto and Kamala more time to consolidate support is fine with me as I think those folks have the best chance of winning against Trump.

-Jason "the pundits seem to be saying that Castro blew it with his attack on Biden and that Booker and Beto had good debates. Biden is being praised for not having a bad debate... also, everyone agrees that Warren is really smart" Evans

And you're paying attention. Most people aren't, at least not yet. Though, I have started to see a noticeable uptick in Trump 2020 flags flying from the backs of trucks and from poles in the yard (rural-ish area, trucks and flagpoles are what people do). Have still only so far seen Sanders, Warren, and Harris (once) 2020 gear despite being in Biden's backyard. Was on the University of Delaware campus early in the week and nada...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And you're paying attention. Most people aren't, at least not yet. Though, I have started to see a noticeable uptick in Trump 2020 flags flying from the backs of trucks and from poles in the yard (rural-ish area, trucks and flagpoles are what people do). Have still only so far seen Sanders, Warren, and Harris (once) 2020 gear despite being in Biden's backyard. Was on the University of Delaware campus early in the week and nada...

Yeah. Most people, including democrats, that I ask about their favorite thus far sorta shrug and maybe mumble a name or too before saying "well, it's too early." I figure this is akin to asking the masses in December about their picks for the Final Four; they might rattle off familiar names, but also probably haven't been watching closely yet.

I don't see how anyone can urge Democrats to "call it" when the first actual primary votes are six months away. Especially in light of the Bernie/HRC fiasco last go round, and how that played out.

[OldPhiKap]

My point was that there is nothing new in these debates, it’s all been said. So another three-hour debate next month when no one is eliminated from this — and Tom Steyer is added — means two nights of the exact same thing. All this is doing is giving sound clips for Republicans to use in ads next fall against the eventual nominee.

Ten people on a stage is not a debate. Period.

Can anyone seriously argue at this point that the two percenters have not had more than fair and ample time to make their case? Why let them sit on the margins and snipe at the leaders? If you’re not gonna call the question, at least get rid of half this field so we can move there.

That’s my beef. So, excuse me because I gotta go yell at the kids on my lawn.

[budwom]

Wake me up next September!

[OldPhiKap]

Wake me up next September!

I got so bored last night, I actually watched baseball. {shudder}

[JasonEvans]

I don't see how anyone can urge Democrats to "call it" when the first actual primary votes are six months away.

4 months, 21 days from the Iowa Caucuses. It'll be here before you know it

Can anyone seriously argue at this point that the two percenters have not had more than fair and ample time to make their case? Why let them sit on the margins and snipe at the leaders? If you’re not gonna call the question, at least get rid of half this field so we can move there.

We have eliminated half of the field. How about we give this half a little bit of time and a couple nationally televised debates to sort themselves out a bit more, ok?

I think the next debate, with Steyer added and occurring on two nights, will be really good. It will feature 5 or 6 candidates on stage, which gives them much more time to interact with each other and actually... you know... debate.

The DNC has not announced the Nov and Dec qualifications but it is expected they will again up the ante, likely requiring a 4% or 5% threshold in polls to get on the stage. That will probably knock us down to 5 or 6 or candidates.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

4 months, 21 days from the Iowa Caucuses. It'll be here before you know it

If only that were true!

[dudog84]

And you're paying attention. Most people aren't, at least not yet. Though, I have started to see a noticeable uptick in Trump 2020 flags flying from the backs of trucks and from poles in the yard (rural-ish area, trucks and flagpoles are what people do). Have still only so far seen Sanders, Warren, and Harris (once) 2020 gear despite being in Biden's backyard. Was on the University of Delaware campus early in the week and nada...

Your neighborhood takes their dancing seriously!

[bundabergdevil]

Your neighborhood takes their dancing seriously!

The Mennonites do like their sequins and g-strings...

[OldPhiKap]

We have eliminated half of the field. How about we give this half a little bit of time and a couple nationally televised debates to sort themselves out a bit more, ok?

Please God, no.

But I recognize I am in the minority, at least on this thread.

I would love to see a national poll about whether the nominating process the last few cycles (R and D) is too long, too short, or just about right. I'm betting that I'm in the national majority.

[OldPhiKap]

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-world/501680/

America’s presidential race is certainly among the world’s longest political campaigns. And many Americans aren’t happy about it. For years, at least half the country has been telling pollsters the campaign is too long.

A pretty thoughtful article on the positives and negatives of such long campaigns, actually.

[dudog84]

Please God, no.

But I recognize I am in the minority, at least on this thread.

I would love to see a national poll about whether the nominating process the last few cycles (R and D) is too long, too short, or just about right. I'm betting that I'm in the national majority.

Although I see Jason's point (what's one more debate allowing the munchkins (2%ers) at the table gonna hurt?), I'm solidly in your camp. They've had plenty of time to make their point. Nothing changed last night (and won't change next month). Castro tried to make a splash and really stepped in it.

Castro's career may be over. He's not going anywhere here. All he's ever done is Mayor of San Antonio (I had thought he'd held higher elective office) and Secretary of HUD. He certainly won't be in a prospective Biden Cabinet. Everyone has said Beto should drop out and run for Texas Senator. Maybe Castro is the one that should.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Please God, no.

But I recognize I am in the minority, at least on this thread.

I would love to see a national poll about whether the nominating process the last few cycles (R and D) is too long, too short, or just about right. I'm betting that I'm in the national majority.

I agree it's too long, but I would say the process starts too early instead of ending too late. We can't "call it" based on a handful of 10/20 person debates and some subjective polling. If we went directly to Iowa for our first caucuses now, I don't know what results we would get. If we had a definitive pick in the next two months, would you like an entire year of that candidate going head to head with DJT?

Ugh.

I'm more inclined to let this play out and see who rises to the top and who can manage to grab some momentum.