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  1. #241
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    This is an excellent look at why a third party run is nearly impossible, and why one could get Trump re-elected even if he were to come in third.


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/polit...lty/index.html
    This is truly sickening to me. When the Constitution was adopted, I don't think anyone conceived of the idea that some states would have 2 orders of magnitude more population than others. I respect the Founders, but in some ways the Constitution is starting to show its age.

    Howard

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by howardlander View Post
    This is truly sickening to me. When the Constitution was adopted, I don't think anyone conceived of the idea that some states would have 2 orders of magnitude more population than others. I respect the Founders, but in some ways the Constitution is starting to show its age.

    Howard
    But not its genius.
       

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    I think in order for an outside candidate (outside as in noting being an R or a D) to start threatening one of the two parties they have to attract folks that are reliable R and D voters. The last time that happened was 1992 with Perot.

    Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, Harry Browne, Gary Johnson, they pull in the reliable third party voters and that's about it. The folks that vote for them are the same 2-5% that will almost always vote third party. If you ask them at the point of a gun to pick the R or the D, they will pick the metaphorical bullet.
    See, I don't think so. I think a person who actually goes out and votes for a candidate that has no chance is, above all else, a voter. I think of that group as probably the most likely to vote again, they are going to vote for someone no matter what. Now, I would not argue against the notion that some of them would write in a candidate rather than pick one of the available candidates, but I suspect a significant percentage of them would have voted for either Clinton or Trump if those were their only options.

  4. #244
    Neera Tanden, formerly a Hillary Clinton confidante and currently president of the Center for American Progress, threatened a Starbucks boycott if Howard Schultz enters the race.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    I already don't go to Starbucks cause I don't like coffee, but I am dismayed by the thought of another businessman thinking that is any kind of experience for being POTUS. As someone else said, not me (but I don't remember who so I can't give them the appropriate citation), "President of the United States is not an entry level position." If you have never held elected office before, you are not qualified to be POTUS. No "successful businessman" has ever made a good president. Yes, I'm looking at you, Warren G. Harding. Herbert Hoover comes to mind as well. If you want to label the Bushes as successful businessmen, I will argue back that they both had experience holding elected office prior to becoming POTUS.

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    No "successful businessman" has ever made a good president. Yes, I'm looking at you, Warren G. Harding. Herbert Hoover comes to mind as well. If you want to label the Bushes as successful businessmen, I will argue back that they both had experience holding elected office prior to becoming POTUS.
    I believe this is what you are trying to say:

    You can be a successful business man (or woman, like Carly Fiorina) and be a good president. But, you cannot ONLY be a successful business man and be a good president.

    It seems like Michael Bloomberg is an excellent example of this. He is quite clearly an outstanding business success but no one questions his qualifications for President because he has an extensive background in government as Mayor of New York.

    That said, I'm going to ask that we be careful this conversation as we currently have a successful businessman in the Oval and a discussion about whether he is a good president would be out of bounds for this thread. If you want to talk about how Schultz's business experience is good or bad for his run or for him serving, that is fine, but please avoid making statements about Trump's performance.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    According to the poll (run by The Washington Post - ABC News), 56 percent of registered voters — a clear and statistically significant majority — say they will “definitely” not vote for Trump in his 2020 reelection bid.
    There is no way that these numbers don't fluctuate, and of course could even flip by election day. But when over half of the voters say they are definitely not voting for you, that isn't good news.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...aPl?li=BBnb7Kz
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    There is no way that these numbers don't fluctuate, and of course could even flip by election day. But when over half of the voters say they are definitely not voting for you, that isn't good news.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...aPl?li=BBnb7Kz
    1992:

    WJClinton 43%
    GHWBush 37.4%
    Ross Perot 18.8%

    Hence the Left’s freak-out about Schultz. Clinton ended up with 370 electoral votes to Bush’s 168 and Perot’s goose egg.
       

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    That said, I'm going to ask that we be careful this conversation as we currently have a successful businessman in the Oval and a discussion about whether he is a good president would be out of bounds for this thread. If you want to talk about how Schultz's business experience is good or bad for his run or for him serving, that is fine, but please avoid making statements about Trump's performance.
    Personally I am ready for the "Federal Government should be run like a business" idea - which near as I can tell is a lingering notion from Perot's candidacy - to go away. The Federal Government isn't a business. Businesses are designed to maximize profit - everything they do is in service of that. The government's goal is not to make a profit - different people have different ideas about what the priority should be vis a vis military, infrastructure, welfare etc but making a profit doesn't factor into it.

    I think what people are trying to say is that the government should be run with a sense of fiscal responsibility, but you don't need an advanced degree or extensive experience in business to get that concept. Maybe one could argue that the types of things a CEO does - managing people, delegating responsibility, etc - translate well to Presidential duties, but that's again different from "running things like a business."

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I believe this is what you are trying to say:

    You can be a successful business man (or woman, like Carly Fiorina) and be a good president. But, you cannot ONLY be a successful business man and be a good president.

    It seems like Michael Bloomberg is an excellent example of this. He is quite clearly an outstanding business success but no one questions his qualifications for President because he has an extensive background in government as Mayor of New York.

    That said, I'm going to ask that we be careful this conversation as we currently have a successful businessman in the Oval and a discussion about whether he is a good president would be out of bounds for this thread. If you want to talk about how Schultz's business experience is good or bad for his run or for him serving, that is fine, but please avoid making statements about Trump's performance.
    Yes, my statement was to be read that merely having a business background is not enough, I think you need some kind of governing/public office experience to be a good president. As to commenting on the current officeholder - I was not even thinking about Trump when I posted this. History determines whether or not someone was a good president. We won't know if Trump was any good until he's been out of office a few years.

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    There is no way that these numbers don't fluctuate, and of course could even flip by election day. But when over half of the voters say they are definitely not voting for you, that isn't good news.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...aPl?li=BBnb7Kz
    I wouldn't read too much into a poll showing that 57% of registered voters definitely won't vote for Trump in 2020. For context, about 69% of registered voters didn't vote for Trump in 2016.

  12. #252
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I believe this is what you are trying to say:

    You can be a successful business man (or woman, like Carly Fiorina) and be a good president. But, you cannot ONLY be a successful business man and be a good president.

    It seems like Michael Bloomberg is an excellent example of this. He is quite clearly an outstanding business success but no one questions his qualifications for President because he has an extensive background in government as Mayor of New York.

    That said, I'm going to ask that we be careful this conversation as we currently have a successful businessman in the Oval and a discussion about whether he is a good president would be out of bounds for this thread. If you want to talk about how Schultz's business experience is good or bad for his run or for him serving, that is fine, but please avoid making statements about Trump's performance.
    Your premise is subject to debate, particularly on how you define "successful," but I won't pontificate further.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Your premise is subject to debate, particularly on how you define "successful," but I won't pontificate further.
    or "businessman".

  14. #254
    The Onion weighs in on Schultz's candidacy:


    SEATTLE—Expressing concerns that Democratic and Republican parties no longer represented people like him, former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz revealed Monday that he was considering an independent presidential run after finding no initial support among any American voter groups. “The complete lack of support for my candidacy among narrow interest groups like liberals, conservatives, and moderates tells me that America is hungry for an independent voice,” said Schultz, after preliminary polling found little to no support for his presidential bid among Democrats, African-Americans, evangelicals, working-class whites, suburbanites, Republicans, millennials, Hispanics, men, or women. “Our political system has been overrun by people with opinions and ideas. This country should not be beholden to someone who constantly fights for American values. Our nation clearly wants an independent voice who does not speak for any of them. I know that I can win by rising above partisan squabbles by bringing together a large coalition of nobody whatsoever.” At press time, the announcement that Schultz was considering a presidential bid had received a highly positive reaction from Howard Schultz.

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    or "businessman".
    I do think of Trump as a successful entertainer though. I would put Oprah or Kanye West (entertainers who have businesses too) running for POTUS in the Trump category of candidacies, but not Howard Schultz.

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Per the Schultz talk..this is all very premature. Besides knowing that he runs a big company, nobody knows how he will be as a candidate. Remember Gary Johnson? He was actually polling in double digits at one point. Then...he flamed out. Big time. A non factor.
    Evan McMullin polled at over 20%! Um, Evan McWho?
    I'll revisit Schultz in the summer of 2020 and see how he's holding up then. My guess is that by then, should he choose to run, he will fully be a non-factor.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  17. #257
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Per the Schultz talk..this is all very premature. Besides knowing that he runs a big company, nobody knows how he will be as a candidate. Remember Gary Johnson? He was actually polling in double digits at one point. Then...he flamed out. Big time. A non factor.
    Evan McMullin polled at over 20%! Um, Evan McWho?
    I'll revisit Schultz in the summer of 2020 and see how he's holding up then. My guess is that by then, should he choose to run, he will fully be a non-factor.
    Yeah this is my personal default on Schultz too. Still, the freak-out on my left-leaning Twitter follows has been swift and viscous.
       

  18. #258
    Talking about Schultz right now is the political equivalent of talking about how awesome last year's bench player has looked during summer pick-up games.

  19. #259
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Talking about Schultz right now is the political equivalent of talking about how awesome last year's bench player has looked during summer pick-up games.
    Or about how Bolden will never see valuable minutes.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Per the Schultz talk..this is all very premature. Besides knowing that he runs a big company, nobody knows how he will be as a candidate. Remember Gary Johnson? He was actually polling in double digits at one point. Then...he flamed out. Big time. A non factor.
    To be fair to Gary Johnson, he was a two term Governor. He wasn't just a businessman. I'd also contend he spent too much time between 2012 and 2016 smoking pot and getting involved with drug legalization to ever put himself forward as a serious candidate.

    I'd also say that his gaffs were no less awful than some of the other candidates that just seemed to be made of teflon and could make no gaff too large...but we don't need to relive 2016.

    McCullin was never going to be a thing outside of Utah...and he did get 21.5% in Utah, nearly equaling Hillary at 27.5%.

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