2020 Presidential Election

[MChambers]

I mean, I see the argument, if one were to read the Constitution to say the sole judgement can be removal from office, AND THEN, IF THE OFFICER IS REMOVED, disqualification from future office. But as you point out, that is not what the Constitution says. It is not clear to me from the plain text that someone cannot be convicted after their term has expired, with the judgment being disqualification from holding the office in the future. I think that’s the better reading, but neither are definitive.

And that is my point about lawyers advocating their positions in the media. Too many in the audience hear the argument and think its black letter law and, therefore, the other side is acting unconstitutionally.

I understand why a lawyer does that (and why a client or beneficiary of the argument want a lawyer to do that), but the consequences of this behavior have become all too clear.

Tribe has a piece in the WaPo today arguing that one can be impeached after his or her term has ended. I thought he had the better side of the argument (Luttig) argued the other side recently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-trump-leaves/

“Concluding otherwise would all but erase the disqualification power from the Constitution’s text: If an impeachable officer became immune from trial and conviction upon leaving office, any official seeing conviction as imminent could easily remove the prospect of disqualification simply by resigning moments before the Senate’s anticipated verdict.”

[El_Diablo]

You know the white power sign claims are quite confusing .we use the circle and 3 fingers to motion everythings good while making heavy lifts 35 to 120 tonne .

Basketball players have used it for a 3 pointer at times. I just think someone is reaching way to deep to call that a white power sign.

As for anyither signs ill have to see what they are .i couldnt tell you if one was being flashed or not.

Im not sold the A ok sign is a white power sign .maybe its regional ?

The wotld is crazy .

LOL. Yep, they are clearly just basketball players celebrating a timely 3-pointer here:

[budwom]

^Social media giveth, and social media taketh away..

[wilson]

The OK sign was part of a campaign by 4chan to mock "PC" culture. Unfortunately for them, that culture is so mainstream that it rose to the level where someone playing "the circle game" got banned for life from Wrigley.

It's not a white supremacist sign in any meaningful way. It's a constant reminder that people can be offended by anything, and that it takes only the slightest push to ruin a perfectly appropriate anything.

It seems that people will believe anything is a dog whistle, but perhaps they just have constant ringing in their ears.

EDIT: I might also add that I'd bet dollars to donuts (maybe dollars to pies?) that it's used more just to annoy liberals or because of the backlash than to actually push white supremacy.

It is absolutely a white supremacist sign with intent and meaning, adopted in part because the three fingers and the loop + wrist form the letters WP, for “white power.”

[wavedukefan70s]

LOL. Yep, they are clearly just basketball players celebrating a timely 3-pointer here:

How does that equate to white power .just out of curiosity.could mean 3%er.
Which is a paramilitary grup on this continent.
Im not saying it isnt .i have just never seen this claim but few times.
The guy that got fired from a company for doing that sign a few months back.
But he was spanish.which made absolutely no sense to me.

Guess ill google it and see what i come up with.
I have more or less brushed it off as possible over reaction or grasping at straws type thing up to this point.

Maybe if i was a white supremacy advocate id get it.

[Kdogg]

Also wanted to point out this line from that interview:

There were other people giving him information that was not accurate, every day, usually before I got to see him. First thing in the morning and not from people inside the White House. It was really frustrating.

Is he talking about actual PEOPLE, or is this a reference to Fox? Or is it both?

It’s both. He has a habit of making late night calls with random “friends” from the Rolodex. Just to add about Rex: After a meeting with Trump and military brass Rex called the president a “[expletive] moron”. They had to explain world and military history to him. Trump blew up because the US wasn’t making money from the armed forces. Rex had to explain that we are not mercenaries.

You know the white power sign claims are quite confusing .we use the circle and 3 fingers to motion everythings good while making heavy lifts 35 to 120 tonne .

Basketball players have used it for a 3 pointer at times. I just think someone is reaching way to deep to call that a white power sign.

As for anyither signs ill have to see what they are .i couldnt tell you if one was being flashed or not.

Im not sold the A ok sign is a white power sign .maybe its regional ?

The wotld is crazy .

The OK sign has been hijacked by white nationals for several years now. Like so much trash, it started in the cesspool of 4chan. It’s pretty much across the country.

The swastika was a religious symbol used by cultures all over the world until one group changed it forever.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that white nationalists have adopted it and claimed it as their own. So it's now tainted, regardless of whomever else may toss it around.

Screw the Nazis and fascists. I’m Hindu and we still use swastikas. It did lead to some interesting looks from friends coming over as a kid though.

[esl]

It is absolutely a white supremacist sign with intent and meaning, adopted in part because the three fingers and the loop + wrist form the letters WP, for “white power.”

So is Obama a white supremacist or does it depend on who is making the sign to know if it is “OK”?

[Kdogg]

So is Obama a white supremacist or does it depend on who is making the sign to know if it is “OK”?

It has to be the right had. His finger are qw not wp.

And three fingers without the O is for the Three Percenters. Another militia group. And yes it’s sad I have to know that.

[esl]

It has to be the right had. His finger are qw not wp.

And three fingers without the O is for the Three Percenters. Another militia group. And yes it’s sad I have to know that.

Sorry for the size

[wilson]

Sorry for the size

Look, I get where you're coming from, and this is a good example of how and why symbols like this get co-opted, but to claim that it isn't being intentionally deployed by far-right organizations and individuals is just obtuse.

[Kdogg]

Sorry for the size

What’s the date of the picture? Unless it’s after 2017 it predates the use by white nationalist.

Also is missing the point. It seems that at least Boebert’s associates played a greater part in the insurrection. At minimum the FBI will be paying her a visit.

On a different note, it seems Trump is having difficulty finds lawyers to defend him. Jared might be his only option at this rate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2021-01-14/trump-struggles-to-build-legal-team-as-impeachment-trial-nears

[wavedukefan70s]

It’s both. He has a habit of making late night calls with random “friends” from the Rolodex. Just to add about Rex: After a meeting with Trump and military brass Rex called the president a “[expletive] moron”. They had to explain world and military history to him. Trump blew up because the US wasn’t making money from the armed forces. Rex had to explain that we are not mercenaries.



The OK sign has been hijacked by white nationals for several years now. Like so much trash, it started in the cesspool of 4chan. It’s pretty much across the country.



Screw the Nazis and fascists. I’m Hindu and we still use swastikas. It did lead to some interesting looks from friends coming over as a kid though.

Well i guess i better stop using it then lol.

[Bostondevil]

My kids have explained to me that the whole thing about the OK sign being a white nationalist sign was started online as a joke. The informed me that the memers out there are now laughing at all of us boomer types for not being in on the joke. And then I explained to my kids that sometimes, even a lot of the time, the origins of something no longer matter once the masses have taken control of the narrative. At this point enough people view the right handed Ok symbol as a white power symbol that it IS a white power symbol no matter what the people who started it as a joke would like for us to believe. There are also still enough people of a certain age who have no idea that the transition has taken place, so, anyone over 50 who uses the OK sign and is startled to find out that it's a white power symbol - give them the benefit of the doubt - Obama included. (He probably knows about it now, based on the amount of grey in his hair in those pictures, he may not have known about it then.)

[wavedukefan70s]

Look, I get where you're coming from, and this is a good example of how and why symbols like this get co-opted, but to claim that it isn't being intentionally deployed by far-right organizations and individuals is just obtuse.

I absolutely had no idea .but maybe its good that i didnt .

That means the people i associate with probably arent white supremacist.but since a good % arent white probably wasnt going to have that problem anyway.

[JasonEvans]

Folks, the debate about white power signs has been beaten to death and really is not something we need to be talking about in this thread anyway. Frankly, as others have noted, if a group thinks something is a white power sign (or any other symbol) then it is whether you are clued in enough to recognize it or not. Debating this and showing picture of people who clearly do not know what it means as a way of pretending something is not a hate symbol shows you are either ignorant or arguing in bad faith. I am sorry if that statement rubs some folks the wrong way but... well some of ya'll need to think about what you are doing before you post.

... pause...

... gathers himself ...

People, I am trying to keep the damn thread open. I know many of you probably would enjoy it being shut down but that is not my goal and I have worked damn hard at this for a long time now. I have been attempting to convince the other mods that maybe we could have a thread that continued to discuss politics in a non-partisan fashion, but ya'll keep going off the rail and getting into tangents that cause headaches. I'm pretty sure my efforts to keep us open beyond 5 more days have failed.

Oh well.

I will now reopen the thread... please stay on track, folks.

[Lord Ash]

Really harrowing first hand look at the experience of officers during the attack. Really bad stuff.

“Dig in!” Fanone yelled, his voice cracking, as he and others were being struck with their own clubs and shields, ripped from their hands by rioters. “We got to get these doors shut.”

An officer since 9/11, the 40-year-old Fanone, who has four daughters, had been working a crime-suppression detail in another part of the District on Jan. 6. He and his partner sped to the Capitol when dispatchers broadcast an urgent citywide emergency call.

“They were overthrowing the Capitol, the seat of democracy, and I f---ing went,” Fanone said.

The officers at the West Terrace eventually pushed people away from the doors. It was only then that Fanone saw the immense, volatile crowd stretched out in front of him and realized what police were up against.

“We weren’t battling 50 or 60 rioters in this tunnel,” he said in the first public account from D.C. police officers who fought to protect the Capitol during last week’s siege. “We were battling 15,000 people. It looked like a medieval battle scene.”

Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.

“We got one! We got one!” Fanone said he heard rioters shout. “Kill him with his own gun!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...t/?arc404=true

[MChambers]

Really harrowing first hand look at the experience of officers during the attack. Really bad stuff.

“Dig in!” Fanone yelled, his voice cracking, as he and others were being struck with their own clubs and shields, ripped from their hands by rioters. “We got to get these doors shut.”

An officer since 9/11, the 40-year-old Fanone, who has four daughters, had been working a crime-suppression detail in another part of the District on Jan. 6. He and his partner sped to the Capitol when dispatchers broadcast an urgent citywide emergency call.

“They were overthrowing the Capitol, the seat of democracy, and I f---ing went,” Fanone said.

The officers at the West Terrace eventually pushed people away from the doors. It was only then that Fanone saw the immense, volatile crowd stretched out in front of him and realized what police were up against.

“We weren’t battling 50 or 60 rioters in this tunnel,” he said in the first public account from D.C. police officers who fought to protect the Capitol during last week’s siege. “We were battling 15,000 people. It looked like a medieval battle scene.”

Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.

“We got one! We got one!” Fanone said he heard rioters shout. “Kill him with his own gun!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...t/?arc404=true

I got part way through the story but couldn't finish, because what it describes is so horrible. Folks, the violence at the Capitol on January 6 was unbelievable.

[Lord Ash]

I got part way through the story but couldn't finish, because what it describes is so horrible. Folks, the violence at the Capitol on January 6 was unbelievable.

Stunningly bad. I got through it, but man, it was not an easy read.

And I am blown away by the fact that I would wager the vast majority of the people involved were preaching "Back the blue" until that moment.

Our world seems to be full of cognitive dissonance of the highest order recently

[JasonEvans]

Stunningly bad. I got through it, but man, it was not an easy read.

And I am blown away by the fact that I would wager the vast majority of the people involved were preaching "Back the blue" until that moment.

Our world seems to be full of cognitive dissonance of the highest order recently

It is a miracle there was not more shooting. If one of those cops being beaten panics** and pulls out his gun it is hard to imagine that the death toll does not skyrocket.

-Jason "**- to be clear, I'm pretty sure I would have panicked if it had been me... these folks are true heroes" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Really harrowing first hand look at the experience of officers during the attack. Really bad stuff.

“Dig in!” Fanone yelled, his voice cracking, as he and others were being struck with their own clubs and shields, ripped from their hands by rioters. “We got to get these doors shut.”

An officer since 9/11, the 40-year-old Fanone, who has four daughters, had been working a crime-suppression detail in another part of the District on Jan. 6. He and his partner sped to the Capitol when dispatchers broadcast an urgent citywide emergency call.

“They were overthrowing the Capitol, the seat of democracy, and I f---ing went,” Fanone said.

The officers at the West Terrace eventually pushed people away from the doors. It was only then that Fanone saw the immense, volatile crowd stretched out in front of him and realized what police were up against.

“We weren’t battling 50 or 60 rioters in this tunnel,” he said in the first public account from D.C. police officers who fought to protect the Capitol during last week’s siege. “We were battling 15,000 people. It looked like a medieval battle scene.”

Someone in the crowd grabbed Fanone’s helmet, pulled him to the ground and dragged him on his stomach down a set of steps. At around the same time, police said, the crowd pulled a second officer down the stairs. Police said that chaotic and violent scene was captured in a video that would later spread widely on the Internet.

Rioters swarmed, battering the officers with metal pipes peeled from scaffolding and a pole with an American flag attached, police said. Both were struck with stun guns. Fanone suffered a mild heart attack and drifted in and out of consciousness.

All the while, the mob was chanting “U.S.A.” over and over and over again.

“We got one! We got one!” Fanone said he heard rioters shout. “Kill him with his own gun!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...t/?arc404=true

Behind a paywall for me.