2020 Presidential Election

[moonpie23]

Why does everyone here want to punish Florida?

because they asked for it...

[SouthernDukie]

because they asked for it...

I didn’t. It’s the non-natives.

[Jeffrey]

Upon reflection, this may have been a brilliant plan to permanently finish off Trump. Almost all D.C. residents (94%) and leaders are Democrats. It was very well known that many known troublemakers (Proud Boys, Antifa, etc.) were coming to the protest/riot armed and the leaders of D.C. made hardly any effort to protect the U.S. Capitol. Yet, 24 hours later there’s a 7 foot high no-climb fence surrounding the U.S. Capitol. The Capitol Police and D.C. Mayor repeatedly refused assistance from the National Guard and F.B.I.

Trump and millions of his most loyal followers are finished and may never again have a voice in Washington. The Republican Party has not been in this much trouble since Watergate, if even then. D.C. may soon become a state. This may have been one of the most brilliant plans in the history of U.S. politics.

[Steven43]

Upon reflection, this may have been a brilliant plan to permanently finish off Trump. Almost all D.C. residents (94%) and leaders are Democrats. It was very well known that many known troublemakers (Proud Boys, Antifa, etc.) were coming to the protest/riot armed and the leaders of D.C. made hardly any effort to protect the U.S. Capitol. Yet, 24 hours later there’s a 7 foot high no-climb fence surrounding the U.S. Capitol. The Capitol Police and D.C. Mayor repeatedly refused assistance from the National Guard and F.B.I.

Trump and millions of his most loyal followers are finished and may never again have a voice in Washington. The Republican Party has not been in this much trouble since Watergate, if even then. D.C. may soon become a state. This may have been one of the most brilliant plans in the history of U.S. politics.

You know, Jeff, you just might be onto something. I hadn’t thought of that angle. Interesting hypothesis indeed.

[Steven43]

To be honest, I will be super shocked if either invoking the 25th or impeachment happens. I don’t know what kind of odds I would place on it, but they would be very, very low.

Still thinking that?

[YmoBeThere]

So I m seeking to understand the frustrations of the "protestors" and not the craziness of the "insurrectionists". I will first admit there is a difference and will also consider that the folks who are generally frustrated can think rationally about their position.

I will use they and them in the following sentences not to be divisive just to position myself as an observer.

The issue is that they (protestors) feel their American ideals are being taken away from them.

First, they can always believe what they want and no one can change their mind. So no one can take away their beliefs they can only give them away.

Second, in the US the interpreters of laws are the courts. Meaning no matter what law you disagree with, it can be challenged. Add to that the courts now have a large amount of conservative judges (6-3 in the SCOTUS which are lifetime appointments). That means the conservative ideals are protected by the courts. As I recall this is the first conservative SCOTUS for decades.

Third, politicians come and go. Elections come up every 2 years and this year even though the Congress and WH are democratic there were republican gains in the house and the races in the senate and presidential race were close. So why give up hope.

I know we could add many different cynical remarks in various parts of this post but I am resisting.

Rationally that leaves a frustration with their economic situation, health and security/inherent rights. (I am not going comment about ethnicity which is too inflammatory.)

In the past 4 years a tax cut was passed and the economy (taking away Covid issues) is fundamentally sound (as concluded by the political leaders who these protestors support). Of course if you lost your job due to Covid you should be very upset.

So my first question...has unemployment due to Covid affected followers of one political party more than another?

Health-wise we are all in the same boat in terms of Covid.

So my second question...has Covid cases affected followers of one political party more than another?

This brings me to the security/inherent rights.

If we look at a county by county breakdown of voters...republican counties are more rural and democratic are more urban. (I know this is a generalization since Rs and Ds are everywhere.)

But this helps me with my third question...Do residents in rural counties feel more threatened physically and feel that their rights will be lost than those in urban counties?
(As an aside, "violent protests" occur in cities of all sizes (DC, Kenosha, C'ville) but I have never seen the dairy cows in the field that I pass on the way to work try to tear down the fences and occupy the barn.)

Just some thoughts to take all of my frustration and return to a more rational state.

BTW, this post is way off topic for a thread about a horse race, so feel free to ignore this. It has served my selfish purpose to get things off my chest and have a safe crowd tell me I am full of it.

Mark

As a conservative who got pushed away from the GOP because it ceased to embody the principles that attracted me when I became a member, I think you are looking for El Dorado.

A local columnist wrote this yesterday, "The Tea Party movement was always most effective at articulating what it opposed. Its activists could shout down members of Congress at town halls and scare establishment Republicans with the threat of a primary challenge from the right flank. It was less effective, however, at identifying what it supported."

Garcia: Capitol riot culminated 12 years of Tea Party resentment
Gilbert Garcia Jan. 7, 2021
https://www.expressnews.com/news/new...a-15854392.php

I expressed similar feelings earlier in this thread. I know many Trump supporters through my car club ('60s/'70s muscle cars) and veterans groups. They are angry and upset that the world is changing around them, that the things they treasure and hold dear(like long since out of business car divisions/companies) are no longer valued. That the values they have are viewed as antiquated. For a few of them, I'm sure it is racial. But mainly they appear to feel lost and left behind. And so, unable to identify the source of their anger and fear, they stew and swirl around and get convinced that someone else can help them regain whatever it is that they've lost. That they can be winner's again. And this is why I think searching for the answer will be as fruitless as searching for El Dorado. Even if they can think rationally about it, it is an ailment of the emotions, which can only be solved by identifying some other group as the losers.

[SouthernDukie]

Still thinking that?

Yes. I didn’t mean they wouldn’t initiate either, only that I didn’t think anything would go through before Trump left. And I still hold to that.

[SouthernDukie]

As a conservative who got pushed away from the GOP because it ceased to embody the principles that attracted me when I became a member, I think you are looking for El Dorado.

A local columnist wrote this yesterday, "The Tea Party movement was always most effective at articulating what it opposed. Its activists could shout down members of Congress at town halls and scare establishment Republicans with the threat of a primary challenge from the right flank. It was less effective, however, at identifying what it supported."

Garcia: Capitol riot culminated 12 years of Tea Party resentment
Gilbert Garcia Jan. 7, 2021
https://www.expressnews.com/news/new...a-15854392.php

I expressed similar feelings earlier in this thread. I know many Trump supporters through my car club ('60s/'70s muscle cars) and veterans groups. They are angry and upset that the world is changing around them, that the things they treasure and hold dear(like long since out of business car divisions/companies) are no longer valued. That the values they have are viewed as antiquated. For a few of them, I'm sure it is racial. But mainly they appear to feel lost and left behind. And so, unable to identify the source of their anger and fear, they stew and swirl around and get convinced that someone else can help them regain whatever it is that they've lost. That they can be winner's again. And this is why I think searching for the answer will be as fruitless as searching for El Dorado. Even if they can think rationally about it, it is an ailment of the emotions, which can only be solved by identifying some other group as the losers.

This is all spot on correct. I can attest to this being the feeling of so, so many conservatives I know. Again, not saying they are justified or correct in their feelings. Just saying YmoBeThere’s post sums up their thinking perfectly.

[Duke Blue Lemur]

Very kind. And you'll keep an eye on our aye ayes?

Definitely, they are oddly beautiful.

[sagegrouse]

Upon reflection, this may have been a brilliant plan to permanently finish off Trump. Almost all D.C. residents (94%) and leaders are Democrats. It was very well known that many known troublemakers (Proud Boys, Antifa, etc.) were coming to the protest/riot armed and the leaders of D.C. made hardly any effort to protect the U.S. Capitol. Yet, 24 hours later there’s a 7 foot high no-climb fence surrounding the U.S. Capitol. The Capitol Police and D.C. Mayor repeatedly refused assistance from the National Guard and F.B.I.

Trump and millions of his most loyal followers are finished and may never again have a voice in Washington. The Republican Party has not been in this much trouble since Watergate, if even then. D.C. may soon become a state. This may have been one of the most brilliant plans in the history of U.S. politics.

You might want to reflect some more.

[Duke Blue Lemur]

The first aye aye born at Duke was named Blue Devil.

[Steven43]

Yes. I didn’t mean they wouldn’t initiate either, only that I didn’t think anything would go through before Trump left. And I still hold to that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...er-he-n1253544

It very well might not matter whether it happens before Trump leaves office.

[Steven43]

Why does everyone here want to punish Florida?

Hey SD, I’m drinking a tall cool glass of your orange🍊 juice right now, so chill. 😉

[Chicago 1995]

Upon reflection, this may have been a brilliant plan to permanently finish off Trump. Almost all D.C. residents (94%) and leaders are Democrats. It was very well known that many known troublemakers (Proud Boys, Antifa, etc.) were coming to the protest/riot armed and the leaders of D.C. made hardly any effort to protect the U.S. Capitol. Yet, 24 hours later there’s a 7 foot high no-climb fence surrounding the U.S. Capitol. The Capitol Police and D.C. Mayor repeatedly refused assistance from the National Guard and F.B.I.

Trump and millions of his most loyal followers are finished and may never again have a voice in Washington. The Republican Party has not been in this much trouble since Watergate, if even then. D.C. may soon become a state. This may have been one of the most brilliant plans in the history of U.S. politics.

Except all the evidence is this was all done by pro-Trump folks. This wasn’t 4D chess. It was a coup attempt that didn’t consider what the response would be when it inevitably failed.

I mean, there’s NOTHING to support this theory.

[Steven43]

Except all the evidence is this was all done by pro-Trump folks. This wasn’t 4D chess. It was a coup attempt that didn’t consider what the response would be when it inevitably failed.

I mean, there’s NOTHING to support this theory.

Come on man, it’s Friday, we’ve had a few drinks, and we’re throwing out unsubstantiated theories primarily for amusement purposes only. Not to be taken too seriously.

[SouthernDukie]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...er-he-n1253544

It very well might not matter whether it happens before Trump leaves office.

If that’s true then I withdraw my comment. I thought for sure it had to happen in the next 12 days.

[Acymetric]

FWIW, in impeachment process in progress when Biden takes office would severely hamper his ability to get things started. Even basic stuff like his initial appointments would likely be on hold.

[Steven43]

FWIW, in impeachment process in progress when Biden takes office would severely hamper his ability to get things started. Even basic stuff like his initial appointments would likely be on hold.

Maybe so, but it would finish him off for good without having to deal with a potential return from the dead in 2024. Seen in that light it might very well be worth it to have President Biden’s initial appointments put on hold for a little bit.

[Namtilal]

FWIW, in impeachment process in progress when Biden takes office would severely hamper his ability to get things started. Even basic stuff like his initial appointments would likely be on hold.

The key issue for me is that the Senate's subpoena power and compelled testimony under oath is far more public and will occur much sooner than the traditional prosecution method, which can take years.

There is serious and credible speculation that elected members of the federal and state governments were involved in this, and an impeachment trial with proper discovery will help us clean house quickly, if indeed this is true.

This is a crisis we cannot have hanging over our heads. People like me think that we have treasonous members of the House and likely the Senate as well. Congress will not break and will work seven days a week for a very long time.

[Bostondevil]

Maybe so, but it would finish him off for good without having to deal with a potential return from the dead in 2024. Seen in that light it might very well be worth it to have President Biden’s initial appointments put on hold for a little bit.

Once Shumer is in charge, could he call a one day recess so that Biden could install everybody in a recess appointment? Or just make all appointments acting appointments until the Senate can confirm?