2020 Presidential Election

[sagegrouse]

Biden's obviously capable of gaffes but he's also plenty capable of generating positive viral moments like this selfie with an elevator operator that's making the interweb rounds...

Biden's strength as a politician have always been his accessibility and every-man oratorical style. He's in pretty stark contrast to Obama and Clinton in this regard, both of whom were knocked by some for their perceived arrogance. Obama was a strong retail politician but also had a penchant for professorial speeches and, of course, he got caught with the "clinging to guns and bibles" comment that reaffirmed what a lot of rural voters think liberals think about them.

I agree with you about Biden, but are you saying Bill Clinton doesn't have an Everyman rhetorical style? Maybe you are referring to Hillary.

[bundabergdevil]

I agree with you about Biden, but are you saying Bill Clinton doesn't have an Everyman rhetorical style? Maybe you are referring to Hillary.

Yes, Hillary...was thinking about the recent Dem presidential candidates. Should have been more specific.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree with you about Biden, but are you saying Bill Clinton doesn't have an Everyman rhetorical style? Maybe you are referring to Hillary.

Bubba Clinton felt the common man’s pain. Especially compared to George H.W. Bush, who was a very admirable man (IMO) but was pretty disassociated with the everyday, go-to-the-grocery-store voter. Dole was not terribly relatable either as an opponent, again despite an admirable personal history (IMO) and a dry sense of humor that was supposedly great in small groups but never translated to mass politicking.

[dudog84]

Found this to be an entertaining piece on the NYT "endorsement", especially the twitter comments (yes, I shock myself). Not really hearing kudos for them anywhere, not just this article. I've always appreciated their investigative reporting, but not so much their editorializing.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...9J?ocid=msn360

[sagegrouse]

Yes, Hillary...was thinking about the recent Dem presidential candidates. Should have been more specific.

Whew! I have never met a more skilled politician than Bill -- one-on-one, small groups, large halls. He offers a fount of knowledge but doesn't rub your nose in it. He could attack opponents and find them agreeing with him

[OldPhiKap]

Hillary goes after Bernie:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551

So much for smooth water and unity. Snippet:

In the doc, you're brutally honest on Sanders: "He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it." That assessment still hold?

Yes, it does.

If he gets the nomination, will you endorse and campaign for him?

I'm not going to go there yet. We're still in a very vigorous primary season. I will say, however, that it's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women. And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it. And I don't think we want to go down that road again where you campaign by insult and attack and maybe you try to get some distance from it, but you either don't know what your campaign and supporters are doing or you're just giving them a wink and you want them to go after Kamala [Harris] or after Elizabeth [Warren]. I think that that's a pattern that people should take into account when they make their decisions.

Speaking of, he allegedly told Sen. Elizabeth Warren in 2018 that he didn't think a woman could win, a statement he vigorously denies. How did you digest that?

Well, number one, I think [that sentiment] is untrue, which we should all say loudly. I mean, I did get more votes both in the primary, by about 4 million, and in the general election, by about 3 million. I think that both the press and the public have to really hold everybody running accountable for what they say and what their campaign says and does. That's particularly true with what's going on right now with the Bernie campaign having gone after Elizabeth with a very personal attack on her. Then this argument about whether or not or when he did or didn't say that a woman couldn't be elected, it's part of a pattern. If it were a one-off, you might say, "OK, fine." But he said I was unqualified. I had a lot more experience than he did, and got a lot more done than he had, but that was his attack on me. I just think people need to pay attention because we want, hopefully, to elect a president who's going to try to bring us together, and not either turn a blind eye, or actually reward the kind of insulting, attacking, demeaning, degrading behavior that we've seen from this current administration.

(Obviously, not endorsing HRC’s views — just noting that the simmering Bernie-as-thorn issue is getting tossed up just a few weeks before Iowa. And I guess I was wrong in saying a few days ago that no one really thinks Bernie is sexist as Warren suggests. Maybe it’s just sour grapes talking here though.)

[bundabergdevil]

Whew! I have never met a more skilled politician than Bill -- one-on-one, small groups, large halls. He offers a fount of knowledge but doesn't rub your nose in it. He could attack opponents and find them agreeing with him

Agree. His wife is a talented, incredibly competent person but has never come close to the political charisma of "Bubba". I read his autobiography some years ago --- first of all, whoa, who remembers their life in that level of detail --- but his poor, white, southern roots are honest and it's reflected in his political instincts and ability to talk to just about anyone.

[budwom]

Hillary goes after Bernie:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...bernie-1271551

So much for smooth water and unity. Snippet:



(Obviously, not endorsing HRC’s views — just noting that the simmering Bernie-as-thorn issue is getting tossed up just a few weeks before Iowa. And I guess I was wrong in saying a few days ago that no one really thinks Bernie is sexist as Warren suggests. Maybe it’s just sour grapes talking here though.)

HRC's views are irrelevant now, except for the look of very sour grapes. Not sure her endorsement in Iowa would be worth more than a soggy Kleenex. Perhaps they remember her sitting home wondering why Trump was campaigning in Michigan at the end of the campaign...d'oh!

[dudog84]

Here's 5+ minutes that perfectly encapsulates Clinton(s):

[OldPhiKap]

HRC's views are irrelevant now . . . .

Not sure that is true amongst the party insiders. But I think this speaks more to rekindling the bad blood from Bernie's refusal to drop out last time around and the disruption from Bernie or Busters at the Convention.

But I imagine for the Bernie supporters, Clinton's attack is a badge of honor. And therein lies the unhealed fissure.

[bundabergdevil]

Not sure that is true amongst the party insiders. But I think this speaks more to rekindling the bad blood from Bernie's refusal to drop out last time around and the disruption from Bernie or Busters at the Convention.

But I imagine for the Bernie supporters, Clinton's attack is a badge of honor. And therein lies the unhealed fissure.

I dunno...if Warren and Clinton are both accusing Sanders and his staff of gender discrimination or bias, it’ll matter to certain segment of party faithful that extends beyond insiders/professionals.

Anecdotally, I was staying with a host family in Philly last week who happened to be volunteer Democrat organizers in their neighborhood. The morning after all this news broke they were irate and going off on Sanders. Not insiders but highly engaged citizens who care about gender issues...Clinton’s prerogative matters as the female Democrat who’s been in the arena as the main event for the past 30 years. I know she’s not well liked by an awful lot of people but she’s an extremely important historical figure for this era.

[OldPhiKap]

I know she’s not well liked by an awful lot of people but she’s an extremely important historical figure for this era.

and within the party. #I'mWithHer is still a thing.

[Acymetric]

...And I don't think we want to go down that road again where you campaign by insult and attack...

"But having said that, I'm not going to attack the character of Sanders, his campaign, and his supporters." (on the heels of Warren going on the attack just last week).

Slick move.

[bundabergdevil]

"But having said that, I'm not going to attack the character of Sanders, his campaign, and his supporters." (on the heels of Warren going on the attack just last week).

Slick move.

There’s a name for this type of rhetorical device - saying something by saying you’re not going to say the thing. Trump does the this a lot in his political attacks.


Called apophasis or something like that...

[Acymetric]

There’s a name for this type of rhetorical device - saying something by saying you’re not going to say the thing. Trump does the this a lot in his political attacks.


Called apophasis or something like that...

Oops. Too late to edit, but my post was supposed to read "But having said that, I'm now going to attack the character of Sanders, his campaign, and his supporters." (corrected typo in bold).

[budwom]

Not sure that is true amongst the party insiders. But I think this speaks more to rekindling the bad blood from Bernie's refusal to drop out last time around and the disruption from Bernie or Busters at the Convention.

But I imagine for the Bernie supporters, Clinton's attack is a badge of honor. And therein lies the unhealed fissure.

I'd respond that the Demo party has in the past relied too much upon "party insiders" (as in last time) and too little upon motivating other groups to get out and vote.

[snowdenscold]

Major Major's father was a sober God-fearing man whose idea of a good joke was to lie about his age. He was a long-limbed farmer, a God-fearing, freedom-loving, law-abiding rugged individualist who held that federal aid to anyone but farmers was creeping socialism. He advocated thrift and hard work and disapproved of loose women who turned him down.

—- Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Someone better tag SnowdensCold

Love it!

[Chard]

Not to be a stickler but Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, which is different than a Socialist.

And the differences are? Regardless of the mental gymnastics one may take to find those it won't matter. If Sanders is the nominee kiss any chance of a Democrat win goodbye. Dress up the term with whatever you like. Socialist anything won't go over well.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And the differences are? Regardless of the mental gymnastics one may take to find those it won't matter. If Sanders is the nominee kiss any chance of a Democrat win goodbye. Dress up the term with whatever you like. Socialist anything won't go over well.

But... Words and definitions do matter. Or, well, ought to.

I can't keep up anymore.

[CameronBornAndBred]

And the differences are? Regardless of the mental gymnastics one may take to find those it won't matter. If Sanders is the nominee kiss any chance of a Democrat win goodbye. Dress up the term with whatever you like. Socialist anything won't go over well.

But... Words and definitions do matter. Or, well, ought to.

I can't keep up anymore.

Agree with Chard. Trump and Company would drive Bernie day and night as a socialist.
Bernie "DEMOCRATIC Socialist!"
Trump and Company "He admits he's a Socialist, see!?"