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  1. #6801
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Outside Philly
    Best headline I've seen: "Bloomberg Terminal".

  2. #6802
    I only saw the very end given that the Duke game was happening, but it's pretty obvious that Democratic strategists and media really hate Bloomberg...even more than Sanders. It is interesting that he's somehow second in the polls in a lot of places, but nobody who talks on TV seems to be a fan.

  3. #6803
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I only saw the very end given that the Duke game was happening, but it's pretty obvious that Democratic strategists and media really hate Bloomberg...even more than Sanders. It is interesting that he's somehow second in the polls in a lot of places, but nobody who talks on TV seems to be a fan.
    They treated Bloomberg as if he was the front runner. I’m not sure how he wasn’t more prepared for tonight. Especially on S&F and the work place harassment issues.

    As for why he is polling well. 1. The average voter doesn’t pay close attention to what’s going on. Which leads us to #2. It’s the power of advertising. He’s advertising as if he’s a fast food chain or an insurance company. The substance of the ads are an afterthought. The goal is to simply get your name out there... over and over and over and over and over...

    He also refuses to do many interviews and doesn’t engage much with the press. So not surprising that political pundits aren’t huge fans but the average voter is getting behind him.

    Now we will see how powerful his media team really is. Can they spin this poor performance into a win? Fortunately for him, he’s not even competing in the next two states.

  4. #6804
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    I'd love to know what Bernie came up to Joe to talk about after the debate. It looked a bit more cordial than the Sanders-Warren chat.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  5. #6805
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I only saw the very end given that the Duke game was happening, but it's pretty obvious that Democratic strategists and media really hate Bloomberg...even more than Sanders. It is interesting that he's somehow second in the polls in a lot of places, but nobody who talks on TV seems to be a fan.
    They don’t hate him. They saw him get absolutely crushed at the debate tonight and are telling it like it is in terms on his performance. It is not on the pundits that any casual observer could see that Bloomberg was utterly unprepared or unable to defend himself. I’m not sure which is worse but anyone who saw that debate and is a Bloomberg fan has to be concerned.

    The winner tonight was Bernie Sanders who just saw the rest of the field take on his closest competitor pretty effectively. Bernie gets to see Bloomberg fade while not throwing a punch. The other winner was clearly Warren but it comes at a time when she looked like her campaign was about to go belly up. Perhaps this saves her and vaults her but perhaps it just continues to muddy the waters among the myriad of folks chasing Bernie... again, good news for Bernie. His best scenario tonight just came true...

    ... unless this really does reignite the Warren campaign. That could be really bad news for Bernie as she has a better chance than the others of peeling off some support from him.

    Jason “wow is Bloomberg lucky he is not on the Nevada ballot” Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #6806
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    By the way, I thought the other loser tonight was Mayor Pete. He was on the receiving end of a couple good attacks from Klobuchar and I thought he rarely got in a line that resonated very much. Biden was fine but it feels like all he ever says is that he is experienced and “I already did that.” It gets tiresome and when he keeps on saying he already solved problems that still exist in our country, well let’s just say that’s not the most effective message, IMO.

    If I was ranking them all tonight:

    1. Warren
    2. Klobuchar
    3. Sanders
    4. Biden
    5. Buttigieg
    99. Bloomberg
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  7. #6807
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    If I was ranking them all tonight:

    1. Warren
    2. Klobuchar
    3. Sanders
    4. Biden
    5. Buttigieg
    99. Bloomberg
    Mine
    1. Bernie (He was what we'd expect and nothing more or less, and commanded the screen while being status quo.)
    2. Warren (Her attacks on Bloomberg vaulted her, but beyond those, nothing stellar.)
    3. Buttigieg (The best debater on the stage, is always steady and prepared. But no flash tonight, and it would have helped.)
    4. Biden (He was Sideshow Biden tonight, mostly staying out of the fray and not raising his voice.)
    5. Klobuchar (Went from a great debate to a really flat performance, easily outshined and outspoken by the other players. A couple stumbles didn't help.)
    99. Bloomberg (Nothing more to add to anything that hasn't already been said.)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  8. #6808
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  9. #6809
    Warren - In addition to her Bloomy-cide, I thought it was a very good moment for her when she came to Klobuchar's defense by saying that anyone can have a brainfart, essentially, and Amy shouldn't be judged on that. It was a play for Amy's supporters without feeling like one. It's too bad that Warren's political instincts and tactics are sooo bad when off a debate stage, but when on one like last night, I was like, "Dang, she's pretty good."

    Bloomberg - You only get one chance to make a first impression. Big missed opportunity last night. I also wonder whether Trump's "you'll see" tweets about Bloomberg being a bad debater, having no personality, etc ramped up the pressure and caused Bloomy to choke even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by J4Kop99 View Post
    You’d think with all of his focus on Trump, he’d understand that when you’re getting attacked like that, you need to flip that around and go on the offensive. Bloomberg is way too rehearsed and tight. He may not get out of this alive. Not nearly aggressive or assertive enough.
    Agreed. All the candidates that have been participating in debates and primaries were way more comfortable raising their hands and generally elbowing their way into speaking time. It was like a team in midseason form toying with a team that's still learning the plays in preseason.

  10. #6810
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Warren - In addition to her Bloomy-cide, I thought it was a very good moment for her when she came to Klobuchar's defense by saying that anyone can have a brainfart, essentially, and Amy shouldn't be judged on that. It was a play for Amy's supporters without feeling like one. It's too bad that Warren's political instincts and tactics are sooo bad when off a debate stage, but when on one like last night, I was like, "Dang, she's pretty good."

    Bloomberg - You only get one chance to make a first impression. Big missed opportunity last night. I also wonder whether Trump's "you'll see" tweets about Bloomberg being a bad debater, having no personality, etc ramped up the pressure and caused Bloomy to choke even worse.



    Agreed. All the candidates that have been participating in debates and primaries were way more comfortable raising their hands and generally elbowing their way into speaking time. It was like a team in midseason form toying with a team that's still learning the plays in preseason.
    At least part of the problem, IMO, was that his instincts were to actually respond and answer the questions/attacks coming his way. Huge political "no-no". Do NOT answer attacks directly. It's politics 101. You either counterattack or deploy the 4Ds: dismiss, distract, distort, and dismay. For example, when the others were attacking, a better response would have been to point offstage and yell, "SQUIRREL!" to distract his adversaries while he made a run for it.

    Edited to add: You're right on Trump. Here's his take on the debate: "Mini Mike Bloomberg’s debate performance tonight was perhaps the worst in the history of debates, and there have been some really bad ones. He was stumbling, bumbling and grossly incompetent. If this doesn’t knock him out of the race, nothing will. Not so easy to do what I did!"

  11. #6811
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    LOL, poorly worded on my part.

    From Wikipedia:



    Of course, she went down from there. (Also forgot that she was mayor of Wasilla).



    Agreed. Kamala Harris would also be a good choice, even if California is already on the Dem side.
    I think Harris is a bad choice for the same reasons her campaign ended up failing. Fair/right or not, and for a lot of different reasons, a lot of people just don't want to vote for a prosecutor.

  12. #6812
    Bloomberg might not belong in the Democratic Party, frankly. I wonder if he tanks after this debate performance, he just ends up running 3rd-party. (Or maybe his unprecedented money and saturation of airwaves save him, and he still surges in the coming primaries.)

  13. #6813
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    From 538's liveblog of the debate, Nate Silver said Blomberg was ok in the back half of the debate, but this was his assessment of the first half:

    One of the worst performances I can remember, particularly for (Bloomberg's) nonanswers about women and nondisclosure agreements, and pretty much everyone else on stage was willing to twist the knife in. These were not easy things to defend, necessarily. But he came across as smug and unrelatable and dismissive, and he’s going to give fodder to the media and to the other candidates to investigate these lines of attack. There’s a range of possible voter reactions from “minor hiccup that he’ll paper over with $100 million of ads” to “completely blew his shot at the nomination” — with the most likely outcomes being somewhere in between.
    I also enjoyed each of their analysts writing a headline about the debate:

    • Clare: You Wanted A Show, The Democratic Field Gave It To You
    • Perry: Everybody Hates Mike
    • Nate: BLOOMBERG BOMBS
    • Amelia: Warren Is Ready For Her Comeback
    • Kaleigh: The Most Fiery Debate Yet, With Bloomberg Serving As Tinder
    • Meena: None Of These Candidates Came Here To Make Friends
    • Nathaniel: Warren Leads The Charge As Candidates Pile On Bloomberg
    • Geoffrey: The Bloom Is Off Bloomberg’s Rose
    • Chad: All That Blooms Must Wilt
    • Micah: Bloomberg Had A Really Bad Debate. Like … Seriously.
    • Meghan Ashford-Grooms: Why The Democratic Party Is Thinking, ‘Do We Have to Televise the Next One of These?’
    -- Jason "now we need to see if any of this impacts the Nevada vote or, more importantly, the national/Super Tuesday polls" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  14. #6814
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Bloomberg might not belong in the Democratic Party, frankly. I wonder if he tanks after this debate performance, he just ends up running 3rd-party. (Or maybe his unprecedented money and saturation of airwaves save him, and he still surges in the coming primaries.)
    Zero chance Bloomberg runs 3rd party as doing so would guarantee another 4 years for Trump and Bloomberg's #1 desire is to take down Trump.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #6815
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    At least part of the problem, IMO, was that his instincts were to actually respond and answer the questions/attacks coming his way. Huge political "no-no". Do NOT answer attacks directly. It's politics 101. You either counterattack or deploy the 4Ds: dismiss, distract, distort, and dismay. For example, when the others were attacking, a better response would have been to point offstage and yell, "SQUIRREL!" to distract his adversaries while he made a run for it.

    Edited to add: You're right on Trump. Here's his take on the debate: "Mini Mike Bloomberg’s debate performance tonight was perhaps the worst in the history of debates, and there have been some really bad ones. He was stumbling, bumbling and grossly incompetent. If this doesn’t knock him out of the race, nothing will. Not so easy to do what I did!"
    Totally agree - the key to success in these types of debating is pivoting, and he did not do it at all. Make a very quick, vague reference/response to the question then go on to speak about something that reflects more positively on you. Bloomberg has spent millions on polling and research but none of that showed up last night. For example, when they go off on him for being rich, the easy retort is "yes, I started my own business and got very rich. And I paid taxes on my wealth and donate billions to charity, unlike Trump. And I made a lot of other people very rich also and helped them to live the American dream. Mary Jones the minority woman came from nothing, joined Bloomberg and owns her own home and has put several kids through college. I pay my employees very well and give them top notch benefits. Which is why I support Medicare for all who want it rather than Medicare for all - employees at companies like mine are very happy with what they have so are hesitant to give that up for Senator Sanders' vague plans. And there are a lot of others like them who will vote for Trump for just this reason. And getting Trump out of office is the reason we are all standing on this stage."

    Knowing Bloomberg, heads have likely already rolled on his staff for how bad he looked last night. Even though as the guy who was going out on the stage, he should have taken ownership of that, especially since he was hit on a lot of low hanging fruit. He acted like a long-time CEO who has always been surrounded by yes men - as Mayor of NY he was challenged by the press, but he was able to largely work around it, and he drowned out any potential opponents.

  16. #6816
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Bloomberg might not belong in the Democratic Party, frankly. I wonder if he tanks after this debate performance, he just ends up running 3rd-party. (Or maybe his unprecedented money and saturation of airwaves save him, and he still surges in the coming primaries.)
    Given his horrible performance last night, I'd imagine it's a blessing in disguise that he is not even competing in the next two states.

  17. #6817
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    He's been known as a weak debater, and pretty much showed that. Perhaps lavish spending can overcome this, who knows?

  18. #6818
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I think Harris is a bad choice for the same reasons her campaign ended up failing. Fair/right or not, and for a lot of different reasons, a lot of people just don't want to vote for a prosecutor.
    No one in the Democratic primary, perhaps. I think this same background is seen as a plus amongst many outside that group though.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  19. #6819
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    No one in the Democratic primary, perhaps. I think this same background is seen as a plus amongst many outside that group though.
    I'm not sure that is universally true. There are conservatives who don't like the criminal justice system (either on principle or through direct experience) too. They may not dislike it for the same reasons as more left-leaning people, but I think a prosecutor would struggle in a Republican party too.

  20. #6820
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Zero chance Bloomberg runs 3rd party as doing so would guarantee another 4 years for Trump and Bloomberg's #1 desire is to take down Trump.
    Am I the only one cynical about politics? Bloomberg's #1 desire is to become President :-). And his constant attacks of Trump is his (probably wise) tactic to raise his standing with Democrats. This isn't to say Bloomy likes Trump, of course -- although I wouldn't be shocked if privately he would rather have Trump be President than Bernie -- but he's just a practical businessman, is all. He was a registered D in NY, but when he discovered he had a better chance at mayor running as an R, that's what he became.

    Now, there is conventional wisdom that there are lots and lots of voters who don't want to be stuck with a choice between Trump and Sanders. A guy like Bloomberg with unlimited resources might very well try to see if that's true. I certainly wouldn't give it "zero chance."

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