2020 Presidential Election

[PackMan97]

Well, we DO need to end the oil and gas industry. It’s a polluting dinosaur of an industry, and it’s irrevocably destroying our climate. We need more courageous politicians like Joe Biden saying what 99% of scientists/climatologists have been shouting from the rooftops for decades.

If the oil and gas industry folks of Texas and Pennsylvania want to bury their heads in the sand and live in a fantasy world that’s their problem. Actually, I’m wrong about that. It’s EVERYBODY’s problem.

Politics is the art of the possible.

This would be a great chance for any politicians to talk about capitalism and green energy. To talk about how a lot of the big tech companies are installing their own green power because their customers and employees demand it. To talk about the coming electric car revolution which is being led by US manufacturing and consumer demand. It used to be that people bought hybrid and battery-electric cars because of the environment, now they buy them because they are the best in class. It would be a great time to talk about how advances in clean energy are no putting on par or lower cost than nuclear, clean coal and oil powered plants. We got to this point because of government assistance, but going forward it will be all capitalism and market forces driving the coming green revolution. There will always been uses for oil and natural gas, but at much reduced demand. That's nothing that politicians will make happen, but the market.

Let's not even touch on the national security aspects of using a lot of fossil fuels, sure we are energy independent, but the world is still dependent on oil from the middle east, Russia, Venezuela and a lot of other countries that aren't the most pleasant of people. We would do the world a lot of good by moving economies away from oil and gas. The jobs will be replaced just as buggy makers were replaced by the auto industry and telephone operators were replaced by companies that made routing equipment. Usually the new jobs were better paying and higher quality than the ones they replaced.

A politician could really take the scare factor out of green energy if they so desired. The problem is it would require a politician to embrace and marry the environmentalism of the left with the pro business and free market nature of the right. Ones that I think the R and D party are incapable of doing at the moment.

[Steven43]

Politics is the art of the possible.

This would be a great chance for any politicians to talk about capitalism and green energy. To talk about how a lot of the big tech companies are installing their own green power because their customers and employees demand it. To talk about the coming electric car revolution which is being led by US manufacturing and consumer demand. It used to be that people bought hybrid and battery-electric cars because of the environment, now they buy them because they are the best in class. It would be a great time to talk about how advances in clean energy are no putting on par or lower cost than nuclear, clean coal and oil powered plants. We got to this point because of government assistance, but going forward it will be all capitalism and market forces driving the coming green revolution. There will always been uses for oil and natural gas, but at much reduced demand. That's nothing that politicians will make happen, but the market.

Let's not even touch on the national security aspects of using a lot of fossil fuels, sure we are energy independent, but the world is still dependent on oil from the middle east, Russia, Venezuela and a lot of other countries that aren't the most pleasant of people. We would do the world a lot of good by moving economies away from oil and gas. The jobs will be replaced just as buggy makers were replaced by the auto industry and telephone operators were replaced by companies that made routing equipment. Usually the new jobs were better paying and higher quality than the ones they replaced.

A politician could really take the scare factor out of green energy if they so desired. The problem is it would require a politician to embrace and marry the environmentalism of the left with the pro business and free market nature of the right. Ones that I think the R and D party are incapable of doing at the moment.

Kudos to you, PackMan, on an excellent post. 👍🏻

[Hartford Dukie]

Appears that polls following debate have Biden as winner

https://twitter.com/hashtag/NEW?src=hashtag_click

Political Polls
@PpollingNumbers
·
6h
#NEW Poll On Who won tonight's debate?

@YouGovAmerica
:
Biden 54% (+19)
Trump 35%

@CNN
:
Biden 53% (+14)
Trump 39%

@DataProgress
:
Biden 52% (+11)
Trump 41%

[Lord Ash]

Politics is the art of the possible.

This would be a great chance for any politicians to talk about capitalism and green energy. To talk about how a lot of the big tech companies are installing their own green power because their customers and employees demand it. To talk about the coming electric car revolution which is being led by US manufacturing and consumer demand. It used to be that people bought hybrid and battery-electric cars because of the environment, now they buy them because they are the best in class. It would be a great time to talk about how advances in clean energy are no putting on par or lower cost than nuclear, clean coal and oil powered plants. We got to this point because of government assistance, but going forward it will be all capitalism and market forces driving the coming green revolution. There will always been uses for oil and natural gas, but at much reduced demand. That's nothing that politicians will make happen, but the market.

Let's not even touch on the national security aspects of using a lot of fossil fuels, sure we are energy independent, but the world is still dependent on oil from the middle east, Russia, Venezuela and a lot of other countries that aren't the most pleasant of people. We would do the world a lot of good by moving economies away from oil and gas. The jobs will be replaced just as buggy makers were replaced by the auto industry and telephone operators were replaced by companies that made routing equipment. Usually the new jobs were better paying and higher quality than the ones they replaced.

A politician could really take the scare factor out of green energy if they so desired. The problem is it would require a politician to embrace and marry the environmentalism of the left with the pro business and free market nature of the right. Ones that I think the R and D party are incapable of doing at the moment.

Hm, I feel like I’ve heard Biden talk about green energy also creating jobs a lot... like, nearly every time it comes up?

[YmoBeThere]

I think he saw his numbers go down after the last one is taking a very different approach.

Amazing to see how disciplined Trump can be when they threaten to cut off his mic.

Yup. Perhaps the most cogent presentation by Trump in his presidency.

I did not watch the debate, too much baggage from the first one and eight years of muck needing to be cleaned out from the sink drains. But my initial reaction from reading comments like these is that we continue to see behavior from Trump the salesman. He is making a conscious choice at times to behave and act the way he sees fit to appeal to those he is trying to sell to. Trying to guess which Trump we will get at which times has worn thin. I do think the 'crazy uncle' moniker is accurate, even the crazy uncle can fly straight for a few moments. So, I'm not surprised if there are negative reactions to Trump from this debate. Die hard supporters will see this as him being Presidential and a clear win. Those on the fence or not supporters will see someone who is capable of what we expect but who chooses not to be that way.

[Furniture]

Politics is the art of the possible.

This would be a great chance for any politicians to talk about capitalism and green energy. To talk about how a lot of the big tech companies are installing their own green power because their customers and employees demand it. To talk about the coming electric car revolution which is being led by US manufacturing and consumer demand. It used to be that people bought hybrid and battery-electric cars because of the environment, now they buy them because they are the best in class. It would be a great time to talk about how advances in clean energy are no putting on par or lower cost than nuclear, clean coal and oil powered plants. We got to this point because of government assistance, but going forward it will be all capitalism and market forces driving the coming green revolution. There will always been uses for oil and natural gas, but at much reduced demand. That's nothing that politicians will make happen, but the market.

Let's not even touch on the national security aspects of using a lot of fossil fuels, sure we are energy independent, but the world is still dependent on oil from the middle east, Russia, Venezuela and a lot of other countries that aren't the most pleasant of people. We would do the world a lot of good by moving economies away from oil and gas. The jobs will be replaced just as buggy makers were replaced by the auto industry and telephone operators were replaced by companies that made routing equipment. Usually the new jobs were better paying and higher quality than the ones they replaced.

A politician could really take the scare factor out of green energy if they so desired. The problem is it would require a politician to embrace and marry the environmentalism of the left with the pro business and free market nature of the right. Ones that I think the R and D party are incapable of doing at the moment.

The whole world is moving towards green energy like battery driven and fuel cell driven vehicles both passenger cars and trucks. I have been very proud to say for many years that we have the cleanest trucks (toughest emissions) in the world. If we do nothing. If we reverse our course we will become a stinky third world country like India is now for instance. Instead of being a leader we will be left behind.

[budwom]

May I pat myself on the back for just buying a new heat pump (provides A/C, and heat down to below zero Fahrenheit temps, very nice technology)? Power company sending me an $800 rebate, too!

[Bostondevil]

I finally turned on the debate because I felt duty bound to say I'd watched at least some of it only to hear Trump say that fumes from windmills were killing birds? Perhaps I picked the worst moment to tune in in terms of Trump coherency, but really, what was that?

[Wander]

I agree with Packman. Yes, everyone who's remotely serious about the issue knows that human-caused climate change is a gigantic threat, and not "believing" in it is no different than not believing in gravity, COVID, or (probably the best analogy) that smoking causes cancer. And I appreciate Biden's honesty in stating that we need to transition away from fossil fuels. None of that is inconsistent with saying that his packaging and communication of the issue could have been better.

Let's be honest about what's going on with the other stuff. Trump won in 2016 in large part because many people felt very negatively about Clinton. Biden does not have the same negatives. The Hunter stuff is a desperate attempt to raise Biden's negatives in order to replicate 2016. No more, no less.

[MarkD83]

Politics is the art of the possible.

This would be a great chance for any politicians to talk about capitalism and green energy. To talk about how a lot of the big tech companies are installing their own green power because their customers and employees demand it. To talk about the coming electric car revolution which is being led by US manufacturing and consumer demand. It used to be that people bought hybrid and battery-electric cars because of the environment, now they buy them because they are the best in class. It would be a great time to talk about how advances in clean energy are no putting on par or lower cost than nuclear, clean coal and oil powered plants. We got to this point because of government assistance, but going forward it will be all capitalism and market forces driving the coming green revolution. There will always been uses for oil and natural gas, but at much reduced demand. That's nothing that politicians will make happen, but the market.

Let's not even touch on the national security aspects of using a lot of fossil fuels, sure we are energy independent, but the world is still dependent on oil from the middle east, Russia, Venezuela and a lot of other countries that aren't the most pleasant of people. We would do the world a lot of good by moving economies away from oil and gas. The jobs will be replaced just as buggy makers were replaced by the auto industry and telephone operators were replaced by companies that made routing equipment. Usually the new jobs were better paying and higher quality than the ones they replaced.

A politician could really take the scare factor out of green energy if they so desired. The problem is it would require a politician to embrace and marry the environmentalism of the left with the pro business and free market nature of the right. Ones that I think the R and D party are incapable of doing at the moment.

I am no longer undecided...when I go to the polls on Nov 3 to cast my 3rd and final ballot I am writing in PackMan97.

[MarkD83]

I did not listen to the debate but I did listen to the responses from the "undecided" voters in NC. I need to rethink the term "undecided". My sense is that these voters have 3 choices, R, D and a conscious decision not to vote. This decision not to vote is because they have seen that both parties are being divisive. What may move the needle for these voters is the party or candidate(s) that start to talk about bringing the polarized sides together. This comment not only applies to the presidential election but also the congressional elections.

[JasonEvans]

Appears that polls following debate have Biden as winner

#NEW Poll On Who won tonight's debate?

@YouGovAmerica
Biden 54% (+19)
Trump 35%

@CNN
Biden 53% (+14)
Trump 39%

@DataProgress
Biden 52% (+11)
Trump 41%

Striking that all three of these snap polls are pretty similar, Biden at 52-54 and Trump at 35-41. I suppose that speaks to their accuracy.

Also, for folks who do not know, these polls are done in two steps. First, the pollster calls a random sample of people (just like they do with all their polls) and asks those folks if they will be watching the debate. If the person says yes, the polling org then asks if they can call back right after the debate to get the person's opinion. They are only looking for debate-watchers, not seeking a representative sample of the public.

As a result, the CNN sample was actually several points more GOP-leaning and several points less independent than the electorate actually is. Not very surprising that self-identified partisans would be more likely to watch the debate and the less politically inclined independents would not. Still, that makes the fact that Biden convincingly won despite facing a slightly GOP-tilted audience even more impressive.

-Jason "that said, the fact that the margins are fairly close to Biden's margin in voter preference polls probably speaks to the debate as more like a tie" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I did not listen to the debate but I did listen to the responses from the "undecided" voters in NC. I need to rethink the term "undecided". My sense is that these voters have 3 choices, R, D and a conscious decision not to vote. This decision not to vote is because they have seen that both parties are being divisive. What may move the needle for these voters is the party or candidate(s) that start to talk about bringing the polarized sides together. This comment not only applies to the presidential election but also the congressional elections.

If those are the three candidates, the "no vote" is getting his/her rear end beat at the polling places.

Turn out is amazingly high, and there are almost two weeks left.

[CameronBlue]

May I pat myself on the back for just buying a new heat pump (provides A/C, and heat down to below zero Fahrenheit temps, very nice technology)? Power company sending me an $800 rebate, too!

So how did they solve he energy efficiency issue at temps under 40? Or is this a dual system utilizing NG or another energy source to assist the heat pump function? Brand, cost? Does your system have a TXV (thermal expansion valve) or is it a piston driven system?

(Mom and Pop landlord wants to know.)

[sagegrouse]

Ms. Sage and I watched it as planned -- but she lasted only 15 minutes before stomping out of the room.

Comments above that give Trump credit, I think, show the rebound effect from the first debate, the most embarrassing performance in the history of presidential debates. I believe I have watched them all, since Nixon-Kennedy in the freshman lounge at Duke.

I mean, what was Trump talking about --"cages," "laptops," "pillows," "windows," plus favorable comparisons to Abraham Lincoln?

[PackMan97]

Hm, I feel like I’ve heard Biden talk about green energy also creating jobs a lot... like, nearly every time it comes up?

Yes he does, but in the respect of it been government driven, top down, massively expensive and disruptive "Green New Deal". Part of politics is appealing to your base, but the other part is not causing the other side to go running and screaming in the other direction. Environmentalists (Biden included) need to learn how to spin environmentalism in terms that conservatives can understand, appreciate and perhaps even embrace.

There is a lot that could be done in out reach in terms of national security and old fashioned environmental stewardship and conservation. I also think there has been a huge missed opportunity on the part of environmentalists to reach out to Christians and the church community and discuss biblical stewardship over the earth. Again, all that would require the messaging to be changed to appeal to different groups. It's something I haven't seen so far.

There certainly seems to be room in the middle to me for a politicians to draw everyone together and get us headed in the right direction. I feel like a lot of groups are like my wife. It's not OK that I do what she wants, I have to want to do it and I have to want to do it for the same reasons she has. All you married people know what I'm saying The "Why" here shouldn't be important.

I am no longer undecided...when I go to the polls on Nov 3 to cast my 3rd and final ballot I am writing in PackMan97.

Make sure you spell my name right, it's Pack, not Pac. I'm not a video game Additionally, the M in man is capitalized and you only need a two digit date since I signed up way before that loser PackMan1997

[CameronBornAndBred]

I did not listen to the debate but I did listen to the responses from the "undecided" voters in NC. I need to rethink the term "undecided". My sense is that these voters have 3 choices, R, D and a conscious decision not to vote. This decision not to vote is because they have seen that both parties are being divisive. What may move the needle for these voters is the party or candidate(s) that start to talk about bringing the polarized sides together. This comment not only applies to the presidential election but also the congressional elections.

The last question of the debate was "What are you going to say to the voters that did not vote for you?"
Trump didn't answer the question at all, he used his 2 minutes talking about other topics.
Biden answered the question directly and plainly, and spoke to the exact voters that you are referencing, saying that he is running to be America's President, not just the leader of the Blue States. He actually addressed this earlier in the debate as well. If the people you are talking about watched the debate, they likely paid attention to both of his statements.

[Phredd3]

Appears that polls following debate have Biden as winner

https://twitter.com/hashtag/NEW?src=hashtag_click

Political Polls
@PpollingNumbers
·
6h
#NEW Poll On Who won tonight's debate?

@YouGovAmerica
:
Biden 54% (+19)
Trump 35%

@CNN
:
Biden 53% (+14)
Trump 39%

@DataProgress
:
Biden 52% (+11)
Trump 41%

These pretty much within the margin of error on pre-debate polling. I suspect that the "who won" decision for most viewers was driven more by how voters felt about the candidates before the debate and then "confirmed" their views than about the actual debate itself. And, as has been mentioned before, to the extend that's true, Trump really did lose the debate.

Or, what Jason said.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The last question of the debate was "What are you going to say to the voters that did not vote for you?"
Trump didn't answer the question at all, he used his 2 minutes talking about other topics.
Biden answered the question directly and plainly, and spoke to the exact voters that you are referencing, saying that he is running to be America's President, not just the leader of the Blue States. He actually addressed this earlier in the debate as well. If the people you are talking about watched the debate, they likely paid attention to both of his statements.

Agreed. Trump's answer was one of constant campaigning and Us vs. Them - the question was what would you say on your inaugural and he continued to go after Biden. At the inaugural, the election would be over. Time to move on. Not shovel more dirt on the grave.

I noticed that Trump wore a red tie and Biden wore a blue tie. Perhaps to make the point you are referencing more clear, Biden should have worn a blue and red striped tie (assuming that is OK with the fashion police).

[OldPhiKap]

I mentioned this before, but it still hits me -- Karl Rove observed last week that the debate would take up Thursday's news cycle; would dominate the cycle today; and then fade tomorrow. And the reason I'm particularly reminded of this is that the 60 Minutes interviews Sunday -- where Trump was perhaps not as level as he was last night -- is going to wash away his performance last night in large part.

Back to angry Trump before lunch today I suspect, and certainly before the weekend is over.

----
MrsPK continues her work at our local early voting precinct, and says that the traffic is still crazy busy. There will be Saturday voting in Georgia tomorrow, and both Saturday and Sunday voting in SC. (At least, in my area).