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  1. #21
    A terrific post and excellent thread. Thank you posters.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Read Sumner's recent book, Brill's recent book, and ESPECIALLY Brill's 1986 book to get an idea of the history of the program, and of K's first years in particular. My mother bought me that book when I was 9, and thank goodness, because it gave me a good sense of the Cameron, Gerrard, Bradley, Bubas, and Foster years.
    You skipped the Bucky Waters years. I never forget about those bad years so I can really appreciate the good years.
    Bob Green

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    You skipped the Bucky Waters years. I never forget about those bad years so I can really appreciate the good years.
    I'm with you, Bob. I love Bucky - one of the good people, but those were hard times. And I worked around Big Rams every day. Tough going.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    You skipped the Bucky Waters years. I never forget about those bad years so I can really appreciate the good years.
    Yeah, I'm still trying to forget about those even those I hadn't been conceived yet.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    ...I think this is going to be a very good team. It's a little early to say how good, but K has more options than in several years and plenty of talent. He'll figure out how to make it work.
    Nice job, big guy. You said a lot of things I've been wanting to say for a while.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I talked to Jumbo the other night, and I think the genesis of the problem that he, and I as well, have with the current tenor of the board is that while we're both very young (30ish), we both acquired Duke at an early age. So we remember back into the mid-80s.

    I think a lot of folks not only don't really start following a team when they're 8, but they don't start following Duke at all till they get to Duke. So you've got a large quantity of, say, 2005 grads whose Duke basketball memory beings in 2001.

    So Jumbo and I act like crotchety old kooks, but I would offer this to the relative noobs. (And compared to Sumner and Brill, we're all noobs).
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    Word that. Check out the 70's. When you could walk into Cameron without a ticket. Enjoy what we gots. I can't wait for the season to start!
    And I started rooting for Duke my senior year in HS, 1971-1972, when I committed to Duke. I don't feel older than any of you guys, I just look older. Age is a state of mind, and I've about lost mine
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Two miles south of Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Read Sumner's recent book, Brill's recent book, and ESPECIALLY Brill's 1986 book to get an idea of the history of the program, and of K's first years in particular. My mother bought me that book when I was 9, and thank goodness, because it gave me a good sense of the Cameron, Gerrard, Bradley, Bubas, and Foster years.
    Also, read Feinstein's "Forever's Team" and you'll get an idea of why some of us keep voting for Spanarkel, Gminski, Banks etc. in these polls!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    By March of '78, my freshman year, I'd added college basketball to my list of obsessions. I can recall visceral Duke pleasure and pain for 29 years; before that, reading about Duke history is like reading about World War II. As with WWII, it's important to know DDay (Vegas), VE Day (Michigan), VJ Day (Arizona), as well as the Pattons (Laettner) and Eisenowers (Battier), but I'd guess that 95 % of them will never care all that much for Operation Market Garden (Curtis Hunter/David Henderson), even though the DH story is one of my personal faves.

    So read away, grasshopper, but my hunch is that you'll be more interested in the next play than in scenes from my young adulthood.

  9. #29

    Spoiled

    I think we have been spoiled beyond belief with Coach K and the incredible success we've had.

    I remember the Bucky years, for example. Hell, I had seasons tickets during the Bucky years . . . and they were hard times. But times like that certainly offer perspective.

    And when Jumbo points out that the past two or three years years may have slightly deviated from the norm, he's simply pointing out that there's a history . . . a legacy . . . of Duke basketball that perhaps fan should learn about . . . and appreciate . . . and be utterly amazed at the richness of it, the characters, the good years, and the hard years. And that might temper some of the incessant arguments about who will get what minutes this year and who should start and all that drivel. Please.

    Understand this for what it is . . . a beautiful game played by kids, really, who put their heart and souls into it and do the very best they can . . .

    Forgive this here geezer's nostalgia . . . but I am amazed at how the older players have been dissed in these polls . . . and how fans are so quick to jump on players and coaches for their apparent lack of perfection . . .

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    My favorite plays of last season were the couple of times that Paulus destroyed Roy Hibbert in the second half of Duke/Georgetown. Now, if we can just get him to block a Hansbrough shot or two I'll call the season a success.
    I so hate Hansbrough's bangs.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    I so hate Hansbrough's bangs.
    My problem is with his Ivory Latta-esque eyeballs.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Finally found where the weather suits my clothes – and settled down in Brentwood, CA

    Can we do a poll to see what the DBR age distribution is?

    I've been thinking along the same lines as Jumbo, although not as detailed about the implications for this year's team. Kudos to Jumbo!

    I, too, have been concerned (as I watch the results of the poll for our favorite Duke player unfold) about how young the DBR audience must be. It's been obvious to me that the poll is biased toward more recent players. (But no one said it was scientific!) I have also been concerned about how little sense of history, and how little patience, many of the posters to this forum have. I have attributed that to what I perceive to be the relative youth of most of the active discussants on these boards. So big props to Jumbo for making this more clear.

    So I think it might be useful if we did a poll to get a sense of our age distribution. No one has to identify themselves with an age if they don't want to, an anonymous poll will do just fine, although I think it would be healthier if we did identify our age. I think it might be useful information with which to temper our discussions.

    I have no problem with revealing my age. I am one of the "geezers" here, having graduated from Duke in '71. I was there for the end of the golden years of Bubas (I'll never forget Freddie Lind's performance in the triple overtime to beat Carolina my freshman year, nor Bubas' retirement at the next home Carolina game after that -- Why didn't Freddie get more votes? Simply because not many of you know what he did or what a likable guy he was.) and the beginning of the relative mediocrity of the '70s. And although my buddies and I had plenty negative to say about the downturn in victories then (we used to call the team the Blue Tunas because they "flopped" so much -- ahh, the impertinence of youth!), we only said it among ourselves and would never have thought that we would do anything like share such negative thoughts to the world (like we can do today). So I continue to be amazed by the young athletes of today's world. I'm amazed not only that they perform at such high levels, but that they can continue to do so under such scrutiny and with so much vitriol thrown their way, even by those who claim to be their supporters.

    So I suggest a poll to see what our age distribution is...maybe someone with more statistical ability than I could even come up with a way to balance the "favorite Duke player" results so that those guys who busted a gut in the 50s, 60s, and 70s could get a fair shake. (Just kidding about the current poll, but knowing the age distribution would certainly help us understand future such polls.)

    Let's get this season under way! I'm ready!

    Grey Devil

    P.S. I'll be in Maui for the Classic. Who else is going?

  13. #33
    My love for Duke basketball coincided with a trip to see my sister at Duke, and getting into a Duke-Maryland game with her roomates ID (a female nursing student). I was a High School Senior wearing my football jacket...of course it was the Neil McGeachy year, and they were happy to have fans in the seats. But the game went into OT as I remember, Terry Chili and Willie Hodges battled Len Elmore, Lefty kept going beserk on the sidelines, the crazies had skull caps with thermometers on them pointing in the red, heady stuff. Duke fans definetly need to ready Forever's Team and the Brill book to get a pre-K perspective....it was the only Maryland game I've been able to go to...

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Devil View Post

    So I think it might be useful if we did a poll to get a sense of our age distribution. No one has to identify themselves with an age if they don't want to, an anonymous poll will do just fine, although I think it would be healthier if we did identify our age. I think it might be useful information with which to temper our discussions.
    Post the poll and let's see who responds. I've got no problem stating that I'm 48 years young and have been a Duke fan since the Bubas years. I started watching Duke basketball alongside my Dad at a very young age. I can vaguely remember watching Bob Verga when I was six and seven years old (actually I can remember my Dad yelling his name and beating on the living room floor with his shoe) but the Freddie Lind triple overtime win over UNC is my earliest crystal clear memory of Duke basketball (I was eight). While I had watched many Duke games prior to this one, the triple overtime victory is the first game I can associate to concrete memories.

    For the youngsters in the crowd, this is back in the day of two ACC games on TV a week sponsored by Pilot Life. One night game during the week and a Saturday afternoon game. The triple overtime victory was a Saturday afternoon game the first week of March 1968.
    Bob Green

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by accfanfrom1970 View Post
    My love for Duke basketball coincided with a trip to see my sister at Duke, and getting into a Duke-Maryland game with her roomates ID (a female nursing student). I was a High School Senior wearing my football jacket...of course it was the Neil McGeachy year, and they were happy to have fans in the seats. But the game went into OT as I remember, Terry Chili and Willie Hodges battled Len Elmore, Lefty kept going beserk on the sidelines, the crazies had skull caps with thermometers on them pointing in the red, heady stuff. Duke fans definetly need to ready Forever's Team and the Brill book to get a pre-K perspective....it was the only Maryland game I've been able to go to...
    The games against Maryland in those years were our most competitive and most successful. We beat Maryland in 1973 (Bucky Waters last year as coach) in a huge upset - that was the Gary Melchionni 39 point game, lost the McGeachy year and Bill Foster's first year, and then upset Maryland in 1976 (with Terry Chili making the clutch, clinching FTs)! That game released so much pent up fan frustration in Cameron - it is still one of the top 5 loudest times I've ever heard in Cameron.

    I have more stories about the 1975 game, but not for posting now.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  16. #36
    I started following Duke after attending the '57 Orange Bowl. I got serious into BB in 1960. I'm 63 and began attending games in Duke Indoor Stadium in January, 1966.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I started following Duke after attending the '57 Orange Bowl. I got serious into BB in 1960. I'm 63 and began attending games in Duke Indoor Stadium in January, 1966.
    I also attended that 1958 Orange Bowl game (played following the 1957 season), when Duke turnovers allowed Oklahoma to pull away in the fourth quarter and blow open what had been a close game. Of course, I was only 9 at the time, and thought the Oklahoma fight song and the "Boomer Schooner" rolling across the field was way cool. I knew then that I'd always love college football. I didn't know then that I'd end up attending Duke in the fall of 1966 and graduating in 1970. What an entertaining trip it's been...

  18. #38
    With regard to depth (item 1) and pace (item 3) during the Coach K years, both are good points. The following is Coach K's remarks concerning these two issues:

    "We'll play a lot of people," Krzyzewski says. "We're looking to play more up-tempo than we did last year. I'm not saying more up-tempo than we ever did because we've been one of the nation's leaders in offense for most seasons."

    I'll take him at his word but it is understood that a deeper rotation and faster pace depend on many variables, including injuries, player development and the ability of the freshmen to take some of the load.

    My perception for the past few years is that the board has gotten younger. This is probably based on the fact that many of those who were consistent posters when this board started no longer post for a multitude of reasons. The board has, nevertheless, retained the civility that distinguishes it from many college basketball boards. I'm also a fan of the Terps and I used to post on their board a few years ago but I stopped when it seemed to me that it was taken over by students who were rude, juvenile and confrontational.

    gw67

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I talked to Jumbo the other night, and I think the genesis of the problem that he, and I as well, have with the current tenor of the board is that while we're both very young (30ish), we both acquired Duke at an early age. So we remember back into the mid-80s.

    I think a lot of folks not only don't really start following a team when they're 8, but they don't start following Duke at all till they get to Duke. So you've got a large quantity of, say, 2005 grads whose Duke basketball memory beings in 2001.

    So Jumbo and I act like crotchety old kooks, but I would offer this to the relative noobs. (And compared to Sumner and Brill, we're all noobs).

    Read Sumner's recent book, Brill's recent book, and ESPECIALLY Brill's 1986 book to get an idea of the history of the program, and of K's first years in particular. My mother bought me that book when I was 9, and thank goodness, because it gave me a good sense of the Cameron, Gerrard, Bradley, Bubas, and Foster years.
    Well put points, TBeard. I think that there is an even more specific nuance:

    I started following the team (and college basketball) in 1998, when I met my wife who was a PhD student. She started at Duke as an undergrad in 1992, so she had 6 years of Cameron (and 5 more coming) under her belt. All of her stories centered around the time between the Championships - the nineties were great years, but also had rough times. The relative success of the nineties blends into a sense of "waiting for 2001" in many stories now. Discussion focuses on the teams that won it all, as if they are the sole example of the Duke way.

    I think that part of the issue with prognosticating the upcoming (and any) season is that we ignore vast categories of data. Jumbo showing us the numbers is a great example of how that comes about. I expect the books would be as well ( I haven't read them.)

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Devil View Post
    I started following the team (and college basketball) in 1998, when I met my wife who was a PhD student.
    See, I knew you hadn't been married much longer than I had, if at all. 3/5/2000, homes.

    You're right about the framing device that the 2001 championship provides in people's minds.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

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