Best College Basketball Player (formerly in the recruiting thread)

[lotusland]

Maravich? Great players make their teammates better. Maravich never made his teammates better.

Bird made his teammates better. Magic made his teammates better.

.

I was a todler during Maravich’s college career but became a big fan after reading a book about him in my elementary school library. You can argue about where Maravich ranks on the list of great college basketball players but it would be a pretty weak argument to say that he is not among the best considering he holds the all time scoring record.

Pete averaged 44.2 points per game over three seasons for LSU and holds the NCAA Division I scoring record with 3,667 points. He accomplished that when Freshmen were not allowed to play, there was no 3 point line and no shot clock. Dale Brown charted his shots and concluded Maravich would have averaged 57PPG had the 3-point shot existed. Maravich was not known as a good defender but he was a great ball handler, passer and shooter. He definitely made his teammates better. LSU was 3-21 when he arrived and hadn’t played in a post season tournament for 16 years but they finished 4th in the NIT his Senior year. His teammates honestly weren’t very good but Maravich still averaged more than 5 assists per game at LSU.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I was a todler during Maravich’s college career but became a big fan after reading a book about him in my elementary school library. You can argue about where Maravich ranks on the list of great college basketball players but it would be a pretty weak argument to say that he is not among the best considering he holds the all time scoring record.

Pete averaged 44.2 points per game over three seasons for LSU and holds the NCAA Division I scoring record with 3,667 points. He accomplished that when Freshmen were not allowed to play, there was no 3 point line and no shot clock. Dale Brown charted his shots and concluded Maravich would have averaged 57PPG had the 3-point shot existed. Maravich was not known as a good defender but he was a great ball handler, passer and shooter. He definitely made his teammates better. LSU was 3-21 when he arrived and hadn’t played in a post season tournament for 16 years but they finished 4th in the NIT his Senior year. His teammates honestly weren’t very good but Maravich still averaged more than 5 assists per game at LSU.

Pistol Pete had one college stat that sticks out for me. His points/game of 44.2 was actually higher than his FG shooting % of 43.8. Must be a record that no one will ever approach.

I wonder if any college coach other than his father Press would have allowed him to take 38 shots/game.

[jimsumner]

I was a todler during Maravich’s college career but became a big fan after reading a book about him in my elementary school library. You can argue about where Maravich ranks on the list of great college basketball players but it would be a pretty weak argument to say that he is not among the best considering he holds the all time scoring record.

Pete averaged 44.2 points per game over three seasons for LSU and holds the NCAA Division I scoring record with 3,667 points. He accomplished that when Freshmen were not allowed to play, there was no 3 point line and no shot clock. Dale Brown charted his shots and concluded Maravich would have averaged 57PPG had the 3-point shot existed. Maravich was not known as a good defender but he was a great ball handler, passer and shooter. He definitely made his teammates better. LSU was 3-21 when he arrived and hadn’t played in a post season tournament for 16 years but they finished 4th in the NIT his Senior year. His teammates honestly weren’t very good but Maravich still averaged more than 5 assists per game at LSU.

So, you're seriously telling me that Pete Maravich averaged 13 made 3-point shots per game?

Maravich was a me-first ball hog who did not play a lick of defense.

And there's a reason his teammates weren't very good. His father didn't even try to recruit elite talent to play alongside him because Press wanted Pete to get all of the attention. Pete was the diva, his teammates were the supporting cast. It was close to a toxic relationship.

Pete was absolutely one of the most exciting players to ever suit up. But basketball is a team game and his teams did not win, not at the collegiate level, not in the NBA, where some of his teammates were very good.

And if fourth place in the NIT as a senior is your argument, then that's pretty weak, IMO.

Want to start a team and sell tickets?

Pete Maravich is your man.

Want to start a team and win championships?

There are a lot of better options. A lot.

[Steven43]

Want to start a team and sell tickets?

Pete Maravich is your man.

Want to start a team and win championships?

There are a lot of better options. A lot.

Just go with Larry Bird if you want to sell tickets, play team-first unselfish basketball and win championships. Magic Johnson, also. Can’t go wrong either way.

[MartyClark]

So, you're seriously telling me that Pete Maravich averaged 13 made 3-point shots per game?

Maravich was a me-first ball hog who did not play a lick of defense.

And there's a reason his teammates weren't very good. His father didn't even try to recruit elite talent to play alongside him because Press wanted Pete to get all of the attention. Pete was the diva, his teammates were the supporting cast. It was close to a toxic relationship.

Pete was absolutely one of the most exciting players to ever suit up. But basketball is a team game and his teams did not win, not at the collegiate level, not in the NBA, where some of his teammates were very good.

And if fourth place in the NIT as a senior is your argument, then that's pretty weak, IMO.

Want to start a team and sell tickets?

Pete Maravich is your man.

Jim, I respect your opinions and your history of great college basketball journalism. I think you are too hard on Pistol Pete. I never previously considered your point of Press not recruiting great talent because he wanted Pete to get all the attention. I can't imagine, though, that Press passed on good talent just to make Pete shine. If accurate, consider how great Pete could have been if there were other scoring threats and defenses couldn't concentrate on Pete.

Not your point, but I think it is hard to judge Pete's college greatness given the largely segregated SEC in those days. Few, if any, black players. Pete did not face the type of competition that he would face in modern college basketball where there is considerably more speed and athleticism than he saw in the old SEC. He did have good stats in an somewhat abbreviated NBA career though.

Pete was a product of his environment. I'd like to see what he could have done in the current ACC with someone like the GOAT coaching him.

I can still remember watching an LSU-Kentucky game on a fuzzy black and white t.v. when Maravich and Dan Issel faced off. Both had great games, I can't remember the points, but they both scored a lot. Issel had a great pro career and, in my opinion, is a wonderful guy. I have run into him casually in Denver and he has the utmost respect for Pistol Pete.

At any rate, these discussions are fun but largely subjective. I think more of Pistol Pete than you. It doesn't matter, it's fun to talk about college basketball.

[jimsumner]

Jim, I respect your opinions and your history of great college basketball journalism. I think you are too hard on Pistol Pete. I never previously considered your point of Press not recruiting great talent because he wanted Pete to get all the attention. I can't imagine, though, that Press passed on good talent just to make Pete shine. If accurate, consider how great Pete could have been if there were other scoring threats and defenses couldn't concentrate on Pete.

Not your point, but I think it is hard to judge Pete's college greatness given the largely segregated SEC in those days. Few, if any, black players. Pete did not face the type of competition that he would face in modern college basketball where there is considerably more speed and athleticism than he saw in the old SEC. He did have good stats in an somewhat abbreviated NBA career though.

Pete was a product of his environment. I'd like to see what he could have done in the current ACC with someone like the GOAT coaching him.

I can still remember watching an LSU-Kentucky game on a fuzzy black and white t.v. when Maravich and Dan Issel faced off. Both had great games, I can't remember the points, but they both scored a lot. Issel had a great pro career and, in my opinion, is a wonderful guy. I have run into him casually in Denver and he has the utmost respect for Pistol Pete.

At any rate, these discussions are fun but largely subjective. I think more of Pistol Pete than you. It doesn't matter, it's fun to talk about college basketball.

Keep in mind that a lot of my comments are based on personal observation and the values I assign to assorted variables. But I've also talked to more than a few of his contemporaries, players, coaches, writers, scouts and my opinions are consensus opinions. Spectacular individual skills but not a team player. And the idea that Maravich made his teammates better would be met by derision and scorn from people who saw him play for a living.

Maravich led a complicated and sometimes tortured life and his father bears a lot of responsibility for that. Press was Leopold Mozart to Pete's Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Press realized early on that he had a child prodigy on his hands, someone who could grow up to do things he could never do. And he channeled his son's life in that direction.

Pete Maravich was a pretty bright guy. And he didn't exactly grow up on the mean streets. He spent his formative years in a college environment when Press coached at Clemson and NC State. But after graduating from Broughton High School here in Raleigh, Maravich had to go to prep school in order to burnish his academics enough to go to college. And even then, he couldn't meet the ACC's SAT minimum.

When asked about this, Pete always said that he was too busy playing and practicing basketball to spend any time on school.

What kind of parent--especially one employed by a major research university--allows that to happen?

Again, I'd pay money to see Pistol Pete at his peak, more than I'd pay to see Jerry Lucas at his peak.

But I'd much rather build my college team around Lucas.

[NSDukeFan]

Keep in mind that a lot of my comments are based on personal observation and the values I assign to assorted variables. But I've also talked to more than a few of his contemporaries, players, coaches, writers, scouts and my opinions are consensus opinions. Spectacular individual skills but not a team player. And the idea that Maravich made his teammates better would be met by derision and scorn from people who saw him play for a living.

Maravich led a complicated and sometimes tortured life and his father bears a lot of responsibility for that. Press was Leopold Mozart to Pete's Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Press realized early on that he had a child prodigy on his hands, someone who could grow up to do things he could never do. And he channeled his son's life in that direction.

Pete Maravich was a pretty bright guy. And he didn't exactly grow up on the mean streets. He spent his formative years in a college environment when Press coached at Clemson and NC State. But after graduating from Broughton High School here in Raleigh, Maravich had to go to prep school in order to burnish his academics enough to go to college. And even then, he couldn't meet the ACC's SAT minimum.

When asked about this, Pete always said that he was too busy playing and practicing basketball to spend any time on school.

What kind of parent--especially one employed by a major research university--allows that to happen?

Again, I'd pay money to see Pistol Pete at his peak, more than I'd pay to see Jerry Lucas at his peak.

But I'd much rather build my college team around Lucas.

I’m very much enjoying your posts about who you feel are the greatest college players ever.

[Pghdukie]

Pistol Pete spent some of his childhood years in a mill town just north of Pittsburgh. Press was a high school coach until the colleges came calling. IIRC.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Pistol Pete spent some of his childhood years in a mill town just north of Pittsburgh. Press was a high school coach until the colleges came calling. IIRC.

Played HS ball at Raleigh Broughton....for one year, maybe two....

[lotusland]

So, you're seriously telling me that Pete Maravich averaged 13 made 3-point shots per game?

Maravich was a me-first ball hog who did not play a lick of defense.

And there's a reason his teammates weren't very good. His father didn't even try to recruit elite talent to play alongside him because Press wanted Pete to get all of the attention. Pete was the diva, his teammates were the supporting cast. It was close to a toxic relationship.

Pete was absolutely one of the most exciting players to ever suit up. But basketball is a team game and his teams did not win, not at the collegiate level, not in the NBA, where some of his teammates were very good.

And if fourth place in the NIT as a senior is your argument, then that's pretty weak, IMO.

Want to start a team and sell tickets?

Pete Maravich is your man.

Want to start a team and win championships?

There are a lot of better options. A lot.

You said Pete Maravich was not a great college basketball player which is an unusual opinion. I just googled “Greatest College Basketball players of all time”

https://www.google.com/search?ei=GC8...30.akvkNDzGZNE

The first 2 articles list Maravich #2 behind Alcinder. He slipped to 6th on the third article and 5th in the fourth and fifth. I did not find a list with Maravich outside of the top 10 all-time. I’m not sure I’d rank Pistol Pete in the top 5 myself but he’s in my top 10. You’re entitled to your opinion but the overwhelming consensus is that Pete Maravich is an all time great college basketball player.

http://grantland.com/features/the-50...yers-all-time/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/gr...all-time.html/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ers-in-history
https://www.interbasket.net/news/234...tball-players/
https://basketball.fandom.com/wiki/E...ollege_Players

[Pghdukie]

Pistol Pete was born in Aliquippa,Pa. In 1947. Aliquippa is also the hometown of Iron Mike Ditka, Tony Dorsett, Sean Gilbert, Darelle Revis, Ty Law and baseball's Tito Francona, Doc Medich.
Pete also scored his points without a 3point line. And no shot clock.
FYI - Aliquippa is a steel mill town that lived and breathed sports.

[BD80]

I wonder how many threads have devolved into a p***ing contest about who the greatest college player was?

Maybe we can transport the discussion to one of those.

Or to a thread discussing minutes, or Hitler, I don't care.


I've heard these arguments so many times that even I am beginning to recognize the owners of each opinion.

[Steven43]

I wonder how many threads have devolved into a p***ing contest about who the greatest college player was?

I've heard these arguments so many times that even I am beginning to recognize the owners of each opinion.

Maybe so, but it’s either this or nothing. The board is basically dead right now. Nothing much is happening with recruiting. The team hasn’t played since December 20 and won’t play again until January 5. What would you like to discuss? The floor is yours.

[GGLC]

We don't have to discuss anything. We could just...not post, and enjoy the holidays.

Happy New Year to all!

[Indoor66]

We don't have to discuss anything. We could just...not post, and enjoy the holidays.

Happy New Year to all!

And he may be stricken from the rolls for the high crime of blasphemy...

[devildeac]

And he may be stricken from the rolls for the high crime of blasphemy...

It's not a crime.

Ymm, Beer, indeed.

ed653afb8f993983ff2ef3773aa8fae2_640x640.jpg

[El_Diablo]

Maybe so, but it’s either this or nothing.

Sounds good! I vote for nothing.

[NSDukeFan]

Maybe so, but it’s either this or nothing. The board is basically dead right now. Nothing much is happening with recruiting. The team hasn’t played since December 20 and won’t play again until January 5. What would you like to discuss? The floor is yours.

I would rather hear Jim’s and others’ (I also always enjoyed hearing Olympic Fan’s opinions) opinions about greatest all-time players when I venture to this board during breaks between games, when I also don’t expect any recruits to announce. Keeps me coming back here during these lulls.

[niveklaen]

Shifting to a different all time great argument, I agree with Rodman that Bird was seriously over-rated. People talk about him being some amazing shooter, but his career 3pt% was 37.6% on less than 2 attempts a game from 3. In today's game he would be a liability because of his lack of shooting ability. While 'only' 136 players shot better from 3 last year than he did, a mind numbing 236 players averaged more 3s made than him last year - almost 8 players per team! (Those are per game numbers which grotesquely inflate his actual contribution given the amount of pt he got - his per 36 numbers put him at #348 - basically the 11th man on an average modern NBA team.) Further, he put up these tepid numbers against defenses that never bothered to rotate onto shooters or run anybody off the 3pt line. Today, he would be a disaster from a floor balance perspective. He would still be a good player, but he would basically be Ben Simmons.

[jimsumner]

Shifting to a different all time great argument, I agree with Rodman that Bird was seriously over-rated. People talk about him being some amazing shooter, but his career 3pt% was 37.6% on less than 2 attempts a game from 3. In today's game he would be a liability because of his lack of shooting ability. While 'only' 136 players shot better from 3 last year than he did, a mind numbing 236 players averaged more 3s made than him last year - almost 8 players per team! (Those are per game numbers which grotesquely inflate his actual contribution given the amount of pt he got - his per 36 numbers put him at #348 - basically the 11th man on an average modern NBA team.) Further, he put up these tepid numbers against defenses that never bothered to rotate onto shooters or run anybody off the 3pt line. Today, he would be a disaster from a floor balance perspective. He would still be a good player, but he would basically be Ben Simmons.

Check their foul-shooting percentages and get back to us on how Bird is basically Ben Simmons.