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  1. #1
    Dev11's Avatar
    Dev11 is offline Commissioner of Statistics, DBR Podcast
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    DBR Podcast Episode 153: Tournament Time!

    No need to tell you what we're talking about this week. Sorry for the crummy audio from the airport.

    Join the DBR Bracket Challenge for the chance to appear on the DBR Podcast this summer!

    Links:

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    Timestamps:

    0:15 - Hello! Sponsors! Selection Sunday!
    2:16 - Sam helps us break down the bracket - Duke gets the East and the #1 overall seed
    8:04 - Jason leads us in a rant about how the committee screwed Duke by placing a conference foe in their region
    16:48 - Donald rails against the NET rankings
    18:43 - Jason says NC State’s nonconference strength of schedule is why the ACC didn’t get 9 teams
    26:00 - Final Four picks (we have every right to change them or be wrong)
    29:28 - DBR Bracket Challenge! (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?43446-2019-DBR-Bracket-Challenge)
    30:24 - Byrd Campbell means business!
    30:59 - We recap the ACC Tournament - We say goodbye to Sam and welcome Matt Burr from WXDU Sports!
    33:33 - We talk about how great Zion was
    43:21 - We discuss the players not named Zion that also helped Duke win the ACC title
    1:00:13 - GTHCGTH.com - your place for all things that scream “Go To Hell Carolina, Go To Hell!”
    1:01:08 - POW - Duh, Zion. Instead, we do Unsung Hero of the Week. Jason, Donald - Tre Jones, Matt - Jordan Goldwire
    1:04:56 - Parting Shots
    1:05:01 - Jason discusses the All ACC teams and “Killers Kill”
    1:07:50 - Matt discusses a moment where Zion Williamson discusses his mom’s influence on him and the emotions surrounding his knee injury
    1:11:20 - Donald laments that we only have a few games left with this team and stresses to everyone: enjoy this ride we’re going on during March Madness.
    1:14:24 - Thanks Matt for joining us! Find him online at WXDU.org or @WXDUSports on Twitter.
    1:15:32 - Goodbye and Duke Band!

  2. #2
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    Aw man, starting off my morning commute with Cascada just about made my day! Thanks for pushing this out before the week. I’m surprised Jason is so incensed by the VT placement, as you said they have to have two top-4 ACC teams somewhere and I don’t see why giving us a conference opponent qualifies as screwing us over. You could argue that they were underseeded as they didn’t have Justin Robinson for a long stretch, but just placing another ACC team in our subquadrant on its own is not a big deal imo. I definitely don’t agree with moving teams up or down a seed line just for the purpose of keeping conference opponents out of the same half of the region.

    I thought FSU deserved a 3 as well, had they beaten us they would have had a case for a 2. Overall, given all of the ways that a team COULD get screwed, I am very pleased with our draw.

    Exciting time for Duke fans!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I’m surprised Jason is so incensed by the VT placement, as you said they have to have two top-4 ACC teams somewhere and I don’t see why giving us a conference opponent qualifies as screwing us over. You could argue that they were underseeded as they didn’t have Justin Robinson for a long stretch, but just placing another ACC team in our subquadrant on its own is not a big deal imo. I definitely don’t agree with moving teams up or down a seed line just for the purpose of keeping conference opponents out of the same half of the region.

    I thought FSU deserved a 3 as well, had they beaten us they would have had a case for a 2. Overall, given all of the ways that a team COULD get screwed, I am very pleased with our draw.
    Conference opponents know you better and have scouted you more than a random team that may not have seen a single one of your games all year. That kind of familiarity makes for a more competitive game and lessens the gap between a good team and one that is not quite as good. There is a reason the committee has a RULE IN PLACE to avoid exactly this kind of thing. I don't have a problem with it if the conference opponent is on the other side of the draw in your region (like if VT had been a #3) but setting up a sweet 16 matchup with a conference team is something I have never seen the NCAA do in the past... NEVER!

    And I'll add one more thing -- if you look at the advanced metrics like KenPom, FSU and Va Tech are the two highest rated #4 seeds. They both could easily have been #3s. LSU -- which just lost its coach and deserves to be screwed for blatant cheating -- is ranked below both FSU and VT in KenPom. So is Houston. But, the committee gave LSU and Houston 3 seeds and bumped VT and FSU down a peg to set up this impossible situation where they would have to put conference rivals in the same half of a region.

    -Jason "The committee is dumb, doesn't know the sport, and is bad at their job. I annually see nothing to dissuade me from that belief" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    setting up a sweet 16 matchup with a conference team is something I have never seen the NCAA do in the past... NEVER!
    Didn’t we play Syracuse in the S16 just last season?

  5. #5
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    didn't want to start a new thread for this, sorry to hijack this, but is anyone else having trouble with mobile for the forum? Just me?
    Duke '03
    Tent 1 '99/'00

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevil View Post
    didn't want to start a new thread for this, sorry to hijack this, but is anyone else having trouble with mobile for the forum? Just me?
    I am almost exclusively on mobile here and have no issues today. Sorry I can't help.

  7. #7
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    Jason, you were a little over the top. If anyone got screwed by the #4 pairing, look at uNC.

    I hope they play Kansas in KC and lose by 25!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Didn’t we play Syracuse in the S16 just last season?
    Syracuse was a "First 4" and we were a #2 seed.

    Completely different circumstances.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    Jason, you were a little over the top. If anyone got screwed by the #4 pairing, look at uNC.

    I hope they play Kansas in KC and lose by 25!
    Kansas really isn't Kansas this year, too many injuries..they're more like Nebraska or some other flat place team.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Kansas really isn't Kansas this year, too many injuries..they're more like Nebraska or some other flat place team.
    Agreed, but it is still a potential home game, and potentially worse than when we played USC in SC.

    Kansas was 17-0 at home this year. I know the sweet 16 isn't played at Phog, but still...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandAlum83 View Post
    Agreed, but it is still a potential home game, and potentially worse than when we played USC in SC.
    Yup, Carolina got screwed too (and we mentioned that on the pod) but the committee did not violate its own seeding guidelines to do it.

    Not that it matters. Auburn is going to beat Kansas and will be absolutely run out of the gym by Carolina (over/under on that game -- 165).
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  12. #12
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    Kansas is #20 in the both the NET and KenPom which would make them the last 5 seed, but that is inflated by their early-season wins with Azibuike and Vick. Still, I think Lawson will destroy the CHeats. They have a difficult path for sure.

  13. #13
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    Jason, placing VT in our path does not violate the committee's principles. The relevant ones are bolded below:

    1. Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.
    2. Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional final if they played each other three or more times during the regular season and conference tournament.
    3. Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional semifinals if they played each other twice during the regular season and conference tournament.
    4. Teams from the same conference may play each other as early as the second round if they played no more than once during the regular season and conference tournament.
    5. Any principle can be relaxed if two or more teams from the same conference are among the last four at-large seeded teams participating in the First Four.

    We know the first four teams from the ACC were Duke, UVA, unc and FSU (in that order). So they had to be placed in different regions and were handled correctly, per #1. After that, the only issue regarding the timing of Duke facing a conference opponent comes down to how often the teams played, and since Duke and VT only played once, the rules say that they can play each other as early as the second round, per #4. It may seem unfair, but it's consistent with the selection rules.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...-march-madness

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Jason, placing VT in our path does not violate the committee's principles. The relevant ones are bolded below:

    1. Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.
    2. Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional final if they played each other three or more times during the regular season and conference tournament.
    3. Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional semifinals if they played each other twice during the regular season and conference tournament.
    4. Teams from the same conference may play each other as early as the second round if they played no more than once during the regular season and conference tournament.
    5. Any principle can be relaxed if two or more teams from the same conference are among the last four at-large seeded teams participating in the First Four.

    We know the first four teams from the ACC were Duke, UVA, unc and FSU (in that order). So they had to be placed in different regions and were handled correctly, per #1. After that, the only issue regarding the timing of Duke facing a conference opponent comes down to how often the teams played, and since Duke and VT only played once, the rules say that they can play each other as early as the second round, per #4. It may seem unfair, but it's consistent with the selection rules.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...-march-madness
    Playing VT also would allow Duke (having already taken down Syracuse and unc) to continue on its quest for vengeance against all of the teams that beat us this season, with Gonzaga potentially lurking in the Final Four as well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Playing VT also would allow Duke (having already taken down Syracuse and unc) to continue on its quest for vengeance against all of the teams that beat us this season, with Gonzaga potentially lurking in the Final Four as well.
    I said it early in the season, I really don't want to face Ky and give them a shot at redemption. It would be in the final if it were to happen, perfect bookends if we smacked 'em again, but no thanks.

  16. #16
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    Thanks, El D... you are correct that they did not violate their principles. But I don't think I can recall seeing a similar situation in the past, especially for the overall #1 seed. It would be one thing if Va Tech had to score an upset or two to get to Duke, but they will actually play each other if the seeds merely play as expected. That's surprising to me.

    -Jason "plus, I really think FSU should have been a #3 and they should have been placed in the same region as Va Tech to keep ACC teams apart from each other as much as possible" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

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