View Poll Results: Who wins? Who will sit on the Throne at the end of the series

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen

    6 24.00%
  • Sansa Stark

    2 8.00%
  • Arya Stark

    0 0%
  • Daenerys Targaryen

    5 20.00%
  • Cersei Lannister

    0 0%
  • Jaime Lannister

    0 0%
  • Tyrian Lannister

    3 12.00%
  • Theon Greyjoy

    0 0%
  • Samwell Tarley

    1 4.00%
  • Bronn of the Blackwater

    0 0%
  • Gendry Baratheon

    1 4.00%
  • Lyanna Mormont (you know we all want to see this!!)

    0 0%
  • The Night King

    2 8.00%
  • Other (explain in post

    5 20.00%
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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by LegoBatman View Post
    This is why you shouldn't test in production. If those updates had made it into v8.4, then Rhaegal and Missandei might still be alive.
    I think I might print out this comment and hang it at my desk.

  2. #682
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by LegoBatman View Post
    This is why you shouldn't test in production. If those updates had made it into v8.4, then Rhaegal and Missandei might still be alive.
    Youve-Broken-The-BUild-Prepare-To-Die-Developer-Meme.jpg
    ------------------------
    If God is a tarheel fan, then why did they have to cheat like crazy for a generation to hold their own?

  3. #683
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    I think pretty much everyone agrees that her ultimate descent into darkness was rushed / not presented well. I have been a very vocal critic of the writers of late and feel that this is yet another example of bad storytelling at the micro level (as writing that seems intent on preserving maximum shock value rather than laying things out in a more traditional manner).

    But at the macro level, her descent is supported by numerous examples of cruelty and ruthlessness, including examples of burning ďinnocentĒ people alive. Yes, she has often shown restraint in checking those impulses, but increasingly that restraint has been rewarded with pain and suffering and loss. She will have a chance next episode to help fill in the gaps and reconcile her actions with some of the other aspects of her character that people like (her comments on the throne the night before are illustrative...hopefully the writers will flesh that line of thinking out).
    I admire your optimism. But I also hope you're not holding your breath.

    I will try to hold out some level of hope that they'll somehow remove this turd from the livingroom, but frankly, it feels like it's already too late. Even if not, they've got very little time to retcon the necessary groundwork here-- and so many other things to get done. But stranger things have happened, so... maybe.
    ------------------------
    If God is a tarheel fan, then why did they have to cheat like crazy for a generation to hold their own?

  4. #684
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    I admire your optimism. But I also hope you're not holding your breath.

    I will try to hold out some level of hope that they'll somehow remove this turd from the livingroom, but frankly, it feels like it's already too late. Even if not, they've got very little time to retcon the necessary groundwork here-- and so many other things to get done. But stranger things have happened, so... maybe.
    It doesn't require a retcon; Dany just needs to connect the dots for the viewer. It's unclear if the writers are up to the task in pulling it off convincingly, but it doesn't seem that hard based on what we know about her.

    The key point, and one that I think a lot of viewers keep missing, is that the ringing of the bells did not mean the war was over for Dany. She has been treated as a foreigner throughout Westeros at every turn and was still surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. She doesn't want to go around and continue making surgical strikes on remnants that hadn't yet bent the knee, hoping that someone doesn't get another lucky scorpion shot in. She doesn't want to listen to advisors arguing for a more restrained approach. She doesn't want to sit around and watch as another group of Sons of the Harpy rise from the shadows to try to use her attempts at fairness/mercy against her. And she doesn't want to watch the Iron Throne slip through her fingers at the last second due to schemes by Sansa, Varys and others who know of Jon's heritage. She is done with all of that. She wants total, immediate submission by everybody, and the people of King's Landing are now going to serve as a warning for anyone else who is even thinking about standing in her way. As she told Tyrion, those people were not slaves; they had a chance to rise up against Cersei. Or they could have fled the city at any point. Instead they chose to stand around and do nothing, not only failing to help Dany but also making her task immensely more difficult (at great personal cost to Dany). They were, whether knowingly or not, complicity serving as a gigantic meat shield for Cersei, who was attempting to use Dany's mercy against her while continuing to pick off her forces, so at some point these people ceased to be innocent in her eyes. Dany has now emphatically shown that she will be as ruthless as she needs to be, sending a message to Sansa and everyone else in Westeros who knows about Jon's heritage that there is no more f---ing around if they want to live to see another day. The game of thrones is over, she is picking up the ball and going home, and anyone else who wants to step onto the court going forward is going to get a face full of dragonfire for it. Now that order is being restored (through fear, which wasn't her first choice, but her hand has been forced by others) and everyone is on the same page, she can rebuild the realm as she sees fit, and a peaceful, unified Westeros can rise to even greater power, allowing Dany to carry out her greater goals for bringing justice, breaking other real or metaphorical chains, blah blah blah.

    EDIT: Again, doing this mostly after the fact in order to preserve the shock value is not good storytelling, but the groundwork is there.
    Last edited by El_Diablo; 05-15-2019 at 11:21 AM.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Nice concept.

    Personally, though, I think JK Rowling was more a "pantser" - way too much stuff just happened to show up when convenient (c.f., deus ex machina). JRR Tolkien was the best fantasy-world plotter from the modern age!

    -jk
    Not to get too off topic, but I think things showing up when convenient is a tool for a plotter, not a pantser. A pantser would let the characters personalities dictate where the story would go next rather than make something happen to further the overarching arc. One of the things I thoroughly enjoyed about Rowling's prose is her ability to build and foreshadow. She also had a rough outline of all 7 books before she ever started writing them, which allowed her to foreshadow things in earlier books that would come later. Here are a few good ones. And spoiler warning if you somehow managed to avoid all the books and movies for the last decade and a half... https://www.quirkbooks.com/post/six-...-potter-series

    Agree Tolkien was definitely a plotter, and his stories were epics. Regardless of the number of orcs or Uruk-Hai they fought, none of the main characters ever garnered more than a scratch. The whole story went from scene to scene to advance the story and complete the arc.

    GRRM seems to write as if it's all about the journey, not the destination. He has no idea how it's all supposed to end, nor does he want to know. That makes for a great journey, but neglects the payoff.

    I like how he argued that both styles work and neither is right or wrong, but they both have their limitations.
    "There can BE only one."

  6. #686
    At any rate, who thinks Varys will strike from the grave (assuming they bury the ashes of condemned traitors)?

    My wife and I were discussing the interaction with the young woman from the kitchen, the letters he was sending out and his removal of his rings before being taken away to his execution. She read an interesting theory about the rings, but Iím not sure I buy it.

    Iím trying to put it all together. Any ideas?

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    At any rate, who thinks Varys will strike from the grave (assuming they bury the ashes of condemned traitors)?

    My wife and I were discussing the interaction with the young woman from the kitchen, the letters he was sending out and his removal of his rings before being taken away to his execution. She read an interesting theory about the rings, but Iím not sure I buy it.

    Iím trying to put it all together. Any ideas?
    I can think of some plausible scenarios, but is there enough time or even a point in going anywhere with that? Seems like the sort of thing that would normally develop over a few episodes, or even the length of a season.

  8. #688
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    At any rate, who thinks Varys will strike from the grave (assuming they bury the ashes of condemned traitors)?

    My wife and I were discussing the interaction with the young woman from the kitchen, the letters he was sending out and his removal of his rings before being taken away to his execution. She read an interesting theory about the rings, but I’m not sure I buy it.

    I’m trying to put it all together. Any ideas?
    The rings were odd and very deliberate. Something is definitely up there.

    My thought was that his little bird would know to have them delivered somewhere as proof of his demise and the unfitness of Dany, and possibly a trigger. But it could mean a lot of things.
    ------------------------
    If God is a tarheel fan, then why did they have to cheat like crazy for a generation to hold their own?

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    At any rate, who thinks Varys will strike from the grave (assuming they bury the ashes of condemned traitors)?

    My wife and I were discussing the interaction with the young woman from the kitchen, the letters he was sending out and his removal of his rings before being taken away to his execution. She read an interesting theory about the rings, but Iím not sure I buy it.

    Iím trying to put it all together. Any ideas?
    Well, that whole sequence was definitely about Varys trying to poison Dany. The child worked in the kitchens and thatís the conversation they were having. No reason to believe the little girl isnít serving food anymore but if thatís the ďresolutionĒ in the final episode, Iíll be disappointed.

  10. #690
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    I'm a little disappointed in this season .I feel it's been rushed. Years of build up then let's crush everything everyone. I have enjoyed most of it but I was expecting more.

    The horse that Arya rode off on .is that the same horse from the golden company's commander? I thought it got fried by the dragon.
    Melisandre told Arya she would kill green eyes too.
    Danny's eyes?

    Like alteran I to am quite intrigued by the rings.
    I need to know why.
    This season is not long enough.

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Well, that whole sequence was definitely about Varys trying to poison Dany. The child worked in the kitchens and thatís the conversation they were having. No reason to believe the little girl isnít serving food anymore but if thatís the ďresolutionĒ in the final episode, Iíll be disappointed.
    The theory at hand was that the poison was in the rings, and that he left his rings so that she could continue her attempts.

    Poison seems like one of the better options when trying to kill someone protected by a dragon.
    Carolina delenda est

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    The theory at hand was that the poison was in the rings, and that he left his rings so that she could continue her attempts.

    Poison seems like one of the better options when trying to kill someone protected by a dragon.
    Yes, poison does. IIRC, the little girl's name was 'Martha'. If someone named Martha kills the Mother of Dragons, all those parents that named their kids Khaleesi and Danaeryus are going to be double-y pissed.

    Maybe the SBUX coffee cup mishap from last episode also explains Martha's ire. Dany owns a Verismo:

    https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-l...verismo/n31802

  13. #693
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Davos had an interesting observation in the "Blackwater" episode in Season 2:



    It's almost like the writers set out to tank Season 8 intentionally.

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post

    It's almost like the writers set out to tank Season 8 intentionally.
    Maybe they'll get a mulligan? Change.org position has 500,000 (and counting) signatures to "remake the final season of Game of Thrones with competent writers". Ouch.

  15. #695
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Davos had an interesting observation in the "Blackwater" episode in Season 2:



    It's almost like the writers set out to tank Season 8 intentionally.
    That is amazing.
    ------------------------
    If God is a tarheel fan, then why did they have to cheat like crazy for a generation to hold their own?

  16. #696
    I never voted in the poll.
    Iíd say the odds favour Jon Snow on the Iron Throne.
    I hope I am wrong.

    Daenerys, nope. Maybe Sansa is the dark horse.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    It's almost like the writers set out to tank Season 8 intentionally.
    In fairness, I think Season 7 was almost as bad; it's just people didn't want to admit it yet.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Up to nearly 700,000 now --- The petition offers a fun opportunity for discussion. If HBO came to you (yes, you) and said, we blew Seasons 7 and 8, we're going to do this thing again. What would you change? Any particular story elements or character decisions you'd like to see, not see? It's a given that most of us would like to see GRRM strapped into the Stephen King writing diet circa-Cujo to pump the final couple of books out...but other than that.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    I never voted in the poll.
    I’d say the odds favour Jon Snow on the Iron Throne.
    I hope I am wrong.


    Daenerys, nope. Maybe Sansa is the dark horse.
    Since Benioff and Weiss are bad writers, we have to think like bad writers. Bad writers don't want anyone to be able to guess their ending correctly, so it might not be just one person sitting on the Iron Throne at the end. My take: after Jon reluctantly kills Daenerys, he rejects the Iron Throne. The remaining characters decide that "Kings and Queens aren't a good idea anyway," they destroy the Iron Throne, and Westeros will from now on be ruled by a small council, the first of which consists of Sam (who represents science), Bran (who represents history), and Gendry (who represents the common folk).

  20. #700
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    I also wonder if the general shoddiness of seasons 7 and 8 are a reflection of someoneís attempt to save money. The ďwritersĒ have made public comments about the expense of CGI. And it occurred to me that perhaps part of the reason for the reduced number of episodes in season 7 and 8 is so they donít have to pay the actors as much. Cramming everything into fewer but generally longer episodes and shortcutting character development and storylines would certainly be one way to reduce expenses. Nah... on second thought, I think they just suck.
    ďCoach said no 3s.Ē - Zion on The Block

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