MBB: Duke 91, Yale 58 Post-Game Thread

[dukelifer]

Cam is certainly more important than some of his detractors are claiming, and he certainly should not be replaced in the starting lineup by AOC. I could see starting J-White over him, but i don't think it's either necessary or particularly desirable to do that.
However, i disagree that he's our 2nd most important player. He's 4th or maybe even 5th most important behind Tre (as you mentioned) Zion, RJ, and maybe J-White, who has been an absolute beast on the boards. Importance is not strictly about points scored, but efficiency and Cam is just not very efficient (so far), and rebounding and setting up other players, and Zion and RJ bring more of that than Cam. Cam's defense is good, and he's a good thief poaching the passing lanes which is important, but it doesn't make him the 2nd most important player, IMHO.

Cam’s Freshman season on the offensive end is reminding me of Kennard’s. He has great games followed by clunkers. You can see the shooting skills but consistency is an issue and no one is sure why. Unlike Luke, he can be a difference maker on D as he is long and tends to get his hands on a lot of balls. He will get better with time but it is nice that AOC or Jack can come in as needed. Cam is brilliant player but has not figured out how to be consistent. It makes RJ’s and Zion’s starts even that more impressive.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I haven’t watched the game. I’m going to today, but by looking at the box score, I think there is argument to be made for starting Jack White. He’s had very strong stats all year.

...which is actually an argument for using him just like they are...he's getting starter minutes....but functions well off the bench.

[MrPoon]

I was surprised to read the box score this morning and learn that RJB logged 36 minutes. Seems like heavy minutes.

Saw that too. I wonder if it was because of Tre out he wanted Cam and RJ to bring up the ball more. Or long upcoming layoff permitted extra min. Lastly it could be to reward a great overall game and get him to 30 pts. RJ is such a special player. I think I read he has more points than any freshman at this point in the season. He’s become more efficient in the last few games and if he’d just hit his #(*)&#$ FTs! Well that would be unfair.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I've been watching Duke Basketball for over 50 years. Never before have I seen a team that is so energized and enjoyabe to watch, especially on defense. Do these kids ever get tired?

I too have been watching Duke for over 50 years. I have very fond memories of players and past teams and would not want to have to chose absolute favorites.

However this team is really fun to watch. My interest in Duke basketball was on the decline as the OADS meant less connection to the players and the basketball was just not as good as the past.

Interest is back at a high level now.

SoCal

[MChambers]

Saw that too. I wonder if it was because of Tre out he wanted Cam and RJ to bring up the ball more. Or long upcoming layoff permitted extra min. Lastly it could be to reward a great overall game and get him to 30 pts. RJ is such a special player. I think I read he has more points than any freshman at this point in the season. He’s become more efficient in the last few games and if he’d just hit his #(*)&#$ FTs! Well that would be unfair.

I suspect he played that much because Jones wasn’t available the last minutes or so and K wanted RJ to play point.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I suspect he played that much because Jones wasn’t available the last minutes or so and K wanted RJ to play point.

K said in his post game (just watched it) that Tre could have gone back in...but with a knee knock and a quad getting hit...he wanted to rest him...but K said he'll be okay.

[BandAlum83]

Regarding Jack White.

I watched him even more closely last night then usual. It wasn't hard, I've been a fan of his from the beginning.

What I saw, however, was surprising. Jack seems to have a preternatural ability to not only be well positioned for rebounds, he also has the ability to time his jumps perfectly to come down with the ball. When the ball hangs on the rim, he isn't jumping with everyone else. He is jumping as others are coming down. It's like he naturally calculates the carom of the ball in real time and jumps at just the right time and in the right direction.

He isn't jumping higher, necessarily. He's jumping better!

[Neals384]

Regarding Jack White.

I watched him even more closely last night then usual. It wasn't hard, I've been a fan of his from the beginning.

What I saw, however, was surprising. Jack seems to have a preternatural ability to not only be well positioned for rebounds, he also has the ability to time his jumps perfectly to come down with the ball. When the ball hangs on the rim, he isn't jumping with everyone else. He is jumping as others are coming down. It's like he naturally calculates the carom of the ball in real time and jumps at just the right time and in the right direction.

He isn't jumping higher, necessarily. He's jumping better!

This. Pretty much what I said in the Jack Whie thread:

Jack has turned into an absolute ball magnet. If there is a long rebound and 3 guys go after it, Jack always seems to come out with the ball. He has a knack for timing his jump just right. And once he gets the ball, no one's going to steal it.

[jv001]

Regarding Jack White.

I watched him even more closely last night then usual. It wasn't hard, I've been a fan of his from the beginning.

What I saw, however, was surprising. Jack seems to have a preternatural ability to not only be well positioned for rebounds, he also has the ability to time his jumps perfectly to come down with the ball. When the ball hangs on the rim, he isn't jumping with everyone else. He is jumping as others are coming down. It's like he naturally calculates the carom of the ball in real time and jumps at just the right time and in the right direction.

He isn't jumping higher, necessarily. He's jumping better!

I think Captain Jack has some kangaroo in him. But I agree with everything you said and I too could see it coming last season. GoDuke!

[lotusland]

Regarding Jack White.

I watched him even more closely last night then usual. It wasn't hard, I've been a fan of his from the beginning.

What I saw, however, was surprising. Jack seems to have a preternatural ability to not only be well positioned for rebounds, he also has the ability to time his jumps perfectly to come down with the ball. When the ball hangs on the rim, he isn't jumping with everyone else. He is jumping as others are coming down. It's like he naturally calculates the carom of the ball in real time and jumps at just the right time and in the right direction.

He isn't jumping higher, necessarily. He's jumping better!

Jack also got a couple of blocks that were surprising in that he didn’t seem to be in great position but still managed to get the ball cleanly. 3 steals too!

[JBDuke]

Coach K in his presser pointed outhow well AOC played, stating he is nearly 6'6", a very good athlete and quick. His defense is improving and he needs to get a little more confidence in his offensive game. I see no need to do a comparison with Cam, as both have established their roles on the team and it is great to have the flexibility they afford.

Jack White's rebounding seems based more than just on hustle. He is strong and a good athlete but what I notice is how he boxes out so well and puts himself in position to be first to the ball. Smart player with a 40 minute motor if needed.

One area that I didn't mention in my earlier post is the fast breaks. Many we ran incredibly well as the ball is never dribbled and there is no way to defend. There was a period where we seemed to think we could do anything we want and forced breaks that weren't there. It got pretty sloppy and I'm sure the kids will be shown those. Don't want to take away their aggressiveness but improve their judgment.

Love the team and hope that we stay clear of injuries this season.

I agree with Coach K - right now, Alex is playing the best basketball we've seen him play. He's getting better on defense - from pretty weak to at least passable, and having other strong defenders around him means that when he gambles, the D can recover. He has always had good size and athleticism for a collegiate guard, and he's got a nice shot. The reason I was comparing him to Cam was because in the posts I was replying to, prior posters had suggested that Alex should be starting over Cam. Regardless of whether he's starting, he's clearly in the rotation, and if Cam continues to struggle with his 3 pointers, Alex is a potent alternative off the bench to fill that role.

My point about Jack's hustle wasn't about his rebounding - sorry if that wasn't clear. His rebounding is excellent, as many have noted. My point was regarding his perimeter defense. Again, this was comparing him to Cam in response to other posters. Jack is effective guarding on the perimeter even though he isn't as long or quick as Cam, and I think he's doing so through smart positioning, hustle, and good timing. He seems to do a good job of picking when to go over or under a screener. His timing and jumping has allowed him to block a ball from behind even after getting beat to the basket. He's really playing great ball right now in just about every way we need him to. Like I said before - a real glue guy.

Your point about fast breaks is valid. It's one aspect of this team that can be absolutely elite. It's already very, very good. Even elite fast break teams are going to screw one up now and then, so I'm not too worried about it, as long as we don't have too many 1-on-4 fast break attempts...

[Kedsy]

Regardless of whether he's starting, he's clearly in the rotation...

Not sure about that. In games decided by fewer than 20 points, he's averaging 3 mpg.

Cam’s Freshman season on the offensive end is reminding me of Kennard’s. He has great games followed by clunkers. You can see the shooting skills but consistency is an issue and no one is sure why.

Maybe, but I think you're selling Cam way short. After his first 10 collegiate games, Luke Kennard was shooting 25.6% from three. After his first 10 collegiate games, Cam is shooting 39.2% from three. Huuuuuuge difference.

[JBDuke]

Not sure about that. In games decided by fewer than 20 points, he's averaging 3 mpg...

Small sample size. So far, that's just two games - Auburn and Gonzaga. We'll see how things progress, as Coach K frequently tightens up the rotations. Will Alex, the second big (Javin or Marques), Jack, and Jordan continue to to average 10+ minutes? Maybe, but I doubt it. Jordan's time probably depends on how much of a minutes burden Tre can bear. Alex is probably the next most likely candidate to lose minutes, unless Marques goes back into a funk or Javin returns to fouling at unsustainable rates.

[Kedsy]

Small sample size. So far, that's just two games - Auburn and Gonzaga. We'll see how things progress, as Coach K frequently tightens up the rotations. Will Alex, the second big (Javin or Marques), Jack, and Jordan continue to to average 10+ minutes? Maybe, but I doubt it. Jordan's time probably depends on how much of a minutes burden Tre can bear. Alex is probably the next most likely candidate to lose minutes, unless Marques goes back into a funk or Javin returns to fouling at unsustainable rates.

I get that it's just two games, but if the past is an accurate predictor of the future then those two games will more accurately represent the post-January, non-blowout rotation than the eight 20+ point blowouts in which Alex and Jordan have played. Absent injury or extreme foul trouble, history suggests K is probably only going to give rotation minutes to 7 guys. Alex is the 8th guy and Jordan is the 9th. To me, the math is pretty clear.

Now, if K starts playing Zion-at-center lineups for half the game, obviating the need to have two "true" centers in the rotation, and Alex passes Marques or Javin on the depth chart, then Alex would be in the rotation and the "new" 8th man won't. But we haven't seen any evidence of that so far.

As a comparison, I went back and looked at the 2000-01 team's first 10 games. Seven of those were 20+ blowouts, three were not.

In the seven blowouts, Nick Horvath played 10+ mpg (in 5 games before he got hurt), Andre Sweet played 11+ mpg, Matt Christensen played almost 9 mpg, Andre Buckner played around 5 mpg, Reggie Love played 3+ mpg (in 3 games after football season ended) and JD Simpson played around 3 mpg. In the three closer games, those six players combined for 7 minutes total (2+ mpg for the lot of them). Which set of games do you think more accurately predicted the non-blowout rotation after January 1?

[devilsadvocate85]

I would be surprised to see Jack move into the starting lineup unless we have a significant injury. He can come in off the bench for any of the starters and fill the role of 4 of them (Tre being the exception). It makes him the perfect 6th man for this team and my early prediction for conference 6th man of the year (if there is such an award - didn’t feel like looking it up).

[MartyClark]

I would be surprised to see Jack move into the starting lineup unless we have a significant injury. He can come in off the bench for any of the starters and fill the role of 4 of them (Tre being the exception). It makes him the perfect 6th man for this team and my early prediction for conference 6th man of the year (if there is such an award - didn’t feel like looking it up).

I like the idea of a "supersub". (Anyone remember John Laskowski on the old Indiana Hoosier teams?) I agree that Jack is the perfect 6th man for this team.

[chrishoke]

I like the idea of a "supersub". (Anyone remember John Laskowski on the old Indiana Hoosier teams?) I agree that Jack is the perfect 6th man for this team.

Anyone remember David Henderson?

[devildeac]

Anyone remember David Henderson?

Nate James for a while, too, IIRC.

[Kedsy]

Nate James for a while, too, IIRC.

Jon Scheyer in 2007-08.

[OldPhiKap]

Anyone remember David Henderson?

This, exactly.