MBB: Duke 84, Hartford 54 Post-Game Thread

[MChambers]

Basketball is not a shutout sport unlike baseball, soccer, hockey, heck, even football (although they're becoming rarer in that sport). In basketball, you're never going to win 90-0. You can win 90-60 and have played great defense, depending on the number of possessions, and adjusted for opponent. Many posts upthread have already explained why Duke's defense was good against Hartford using these methods already.

Duke did pitch a shutout for one half, in 1979, against some no-account ACC team.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Duke did pitch a shutout for one half, in 1979, against some no-account ACC team.

Not only a shut out....but since there was no rim hit, I'd call it a no hitter as well...

[Indoor66]

I've written this before, but one quick way to go from a top-3 recruiting program to a top-25 recruiting program (assuming that's the floor for Duke) is to become a zone-first program. You can't just advocate for starting every season in zone without discussing the recruiting implications. To continue recruiting at the highest level, Duke should always exhaust all possibilities to play m2m first before turning to zone (if indeed that Duke team plays zone better than m2m). Luckily, this season's team seems to be a very good fit for m2m, but hopefully the zone will still be practiced and used as an occasional curveball within games to get an opponent that's playing well to become out-of-sync; we should not become a 100% m2m team.





Yep.

Basketball is not a shutout sport unlike baseball, soccer, hockey, heck, even football (although they're becoming rarer in that sport). In basketball, you're never going to win 90-0. You can win 90-60 and have played great defense, depending on the number of possessions, and adjusted for opponent. Many posts upthread have already explained why Duke's defense was good against Hartford using these methods already.

So, more to the point. If:
(1) The opponent is clearly using a backdoor offensive strategy, and
(2) Basketball is not a shutout sport (i.e. the opponent WILL score some of the time)

Then when the opponent DOES score, what will it look like? Probably backdoor layups, right? But you have to balance that against steals, rushed shots, and the damage Duke does in transition.

Good points. We do have to remember that even when we have the better athletes and more skilled players, the other team has players who are pretty good at putting the ball in the basket. On top of that, they're trying to win.

[Rich]

Click their username to go to their profile. Then click, "Add to ignore list" on the top left. Confirm, and that's it. It has done wonders for some of the trolls around here.

I use it to block posters who always seem to make a negative point, usually redundant to their previous posts, and in no way constructive, which effectively raises my blood pressure. The block has done wonders for me!

[dyedwab]

One thing that is apparent throughout our games, and was apparent especially during the second half is that our players thrive on playing pressure defense. They aren't as good as they are gonna be yet (I mean, they are freshmen, and we're in December), but it's clear that they like jumping the passing lanes, they get down on the floor to get loose balls, etc. Even our certain-to-be-top-5 picks seem to be willing and able to do what is seen as the "dirty work" of playing defense.

It's really fun to watch - and I think it really matters because they realize that the thing that gets them out and running and doing all the fun things they like to do happens because of there willingness to do the hard work on the defensive end.

Also, Trae Jones is a really good on-the-ball defender.

[devildeac]

I'd be delighted with a couple 82-50 finals this year. Highly improbable to occur but I think we'd all be ecstatic after games like that.

[CDu]

3pt%: 19.2% (this was basically our offensive problem tonight)
dRtg: 0.74 (adjusted that's 0.76, our third straight game with an adjusted dRating under 0.8)
That we could win by 30 while shooting 19% from three-point range could be considered by some as a good sign.

All of this.

I can't fathom why anyone would be complaining about the defense after this game. Mainly, I can't see why anyone would be seriously complaining about this game at all. Yes, we missed a LOT of 3s. But it wasn't like we were forcing bad shots. They were open looks, generally by good shooters. Reddish, White, and O'Connell - probably our three best 3pt shooters - combined to shoot 2-17(!!!) from 3 last night. And virtually all of those were open/wide-open looks. If they hit even a just-poor 6 of 17 and Williamson doesn't miss two dunks, we might be looking at a 100-point game and 40+ point win instead of the 30 point win and 84-point game.

It's just hard for me to get too worked up over missing open 3s in a blowout win. Sometimes these things happen. I don't think we'll have too many nights where those 3 shoot that poorly at the same time.

[UrinalCake]

Have to get a personal pet peeve of my chest - I absolutely hate when we tip a shot attempt and the crowd responds by chanting “airball.” This happened late in the first half (I think) on a three point attempt. Not only does it show a lack of understanding of what happened, it fails to acknowledge the great defensive play that our own team made. Ok, that’s all my grumbling for now.

[elvis14]

I haven't watch the game on TV yet. I did get to go to the game in person. Here are my thoughts:

• Loved making it into CIS for the first time this season.
• What a weird game. Just an odd flow to it.
• As others have mentioned, if we hit a few more open 3's this game is an early blowout
• Seeing Cam Reddish in person, I didn't realize just how long he is. No wonder he's got so much NBA potential
• I really liked Hartford's PG. Great ball handling and once he realized that taking the ball to the hoop was a bad idea, he did a great job of dribble penetration and distributing. I was sitting behind the visitor's bench and he was in a lot of pain after cramping up. Was impressed that he came back in so soon.
• The last timeout before we pulled away the Hartford coach was telling his guys "You are going to win this game". Sure, he was wrong but I liked the message. Sadly for him things soon went downhill.
• I thought RJ really just kept our baseline high. I wouldn't say he carried us but his play was at a high enough level to make the up and down play of others not matter against this level of opponent.
• I loved the off the backboard pass Zion gave RJ. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. That looked like a lot of fun.
• Javin and Tre played really well. I feel like our potential as a team goes up so much with these 2 playing well.
• Is it safe to assume that the students have final exams going on right now? There were fewer students/crazies at the game than usual (except for games where the students are away). I am not trying to repeat the conversation about how much better/worse/whatever crazies are, I'm just saying that their numbers were low last night, really low. Made for a more quiet CIS (well except for me and my friend)
• Weird post game thread. I've always heard that it's better to be quiet and let others think you a fool than speak and remove all doubt.

[swiseman]

I don’t know who this Swiseman guy is, but he thinks our defense may be less than crappy:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...222322845.html

A fella with lots and lots of consonants in this last name (it starts with K) agrees. Tre Jones' on-the-ball pressure plus the presence of long, athletic players like Barrett, Williamson, Reddish plus rim protection from Bolden and DeLaurier give this Duke team plenty of defensive might.

[CDu]

Have to get a personal pet peeve of my chest - I absolutely hate when we tip a shot attempt and the crowd responds by chanting “airball.” This happened late in the first half (I think) on a three point attempt. Not only does it show a lack of understanding of what happened, it fails to acknowledge the great defensive play that our own team made. Ok, that’s all my grumbling for now.

I had the same reaction. It was a nice effort play and block by (I think) Bolden.

As a general rule, if the shot winds up 5 feet short on a regular 3pt attempt, it's probably not really an airball.

[OldPhiKap]

Is it safe to assume that the students have final exams going on right now? There were fewer students/crazies at the game than usual (except for games where the students are away).

FWIW I got an email Tuesday saying that tickets in the student section were available. So it seems that Duke anticipated a small crowd. Per K, it is the week before finals but many students have papers, projects, reports, and presentations due this week. He said that it has been this way since some changes about ten years ago.

FWIW.

[BLPOG]

Duke

Hartford

[JayZee]

A fella with lots and lots of consonants in this last name (it starts with K) agrees. Tre Jones' on-the-ball pressure plus the presence of long, athletic players like Barrett, Williamson, Reddish plus rim protection from Bolden and DeLaurier give this Duke team plenty of defensive might.

Ignoring the noise from one cranky poster, isn't this approach - focusing on M2M, accepting early season lessons with a view towards the end of year D - exactly what many of the less cranky long term posters have been asking for for years?

The 80s/90s K teams lost more often during the regular season and then tended to accelerate in the post season. In the 2000s the regular season records were better relative to post season success, especially when comparing to those crazy great late 80s early 90s tourney records. Was that on purpose? Did K change his approach? Not sure. K has also said over the years (you clearly will know remember better) that to win a NC, a team has to be elite in a couple categories. This team is clearly elite offensively (especially if we improve 3P and FT pct) And The D has an 80s feel, especially with Tre at the point. By focusing on M2M, the communication and rotations/adjustments will improve giving us the opportunity to have a truly elite D at the end of the year.

[ncexnyc]

I'd be delighted with a couple 82-50 finals this year. Highly improbable to occur but I think we'd all be ecstatic after games like that.

How true. I missed the first half due to a cold medication induced nap and when I turned the game on it was indeed a shock to see the halftime score. However, had I slept through the whole game and then saw the final score I never would have had any reason to question how the team played.

Games have their ebbs and flows and very rarely will the opposition get crushed from the opening tip-off. Enjoy the ride folks and savor the moment of watching some super talented freshmen do their thing.

[COYS]

I haven't had much time to post, this season, but I've still been able to watch all the games. I just have to say that it is really, really fun to watch this team play defense. For this reason, I found last night's game particularly encouraging. There's no doubt this team can score, even if there is room for improvement in terms of overall efficiency. However, I can say without reservation that our defense is very good. Better yet, our defensive style complements our preferred offensive style, which is something I couldn't say last year when our zone D made it harder for Tre Duvall, Marvin, etc. to get out into transition. When the D is clicking, it reminds me of the 2001 team.

Even though most of our players struggled with their shot, not one guy hung their head and let it get to them on the defensive end. Cam Reddish was perhaps the best example of that, considering his 2-12 night from the floor. The guy is a really talented defender for a freshman. Despite the (well-deserved) love Tre gets for his on-the-ball defense, I think Cam might be the best defender out of the freshmen quartet. He has such good instincts to go along with his length and quickness. I forget when this play occurred (I think it was late in the second half), but there was one instance in which he single-handedly managed to force a Hartford player into a pass to the corner on a fast break and THEN recovered to the corner to bother what should have been an open corner three. Our toughest stretches on defense this season occurred when Cam was on the bench with foul trouble against Gonzaga. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Also, Javin is SOOO talented on defense when he's not in foul trouble. I love what Marques is doing in terms of hunting for blocks and protecting the rim, but Javin's ability to switch on screens, jump passing lanes, and rebound out of his area make him an absolutely essential part of the rotation. Hopefully, we'll see more games like tonight where he keeps his foul count low.

On offense, I don't think there is much else to say that hasn't been said. When RJ plays efficiently and our defense is clicking, we are going to be tough to beat no matter how the rest of the team is shooting. However, when we play defense like we did last night, our offensive floor is really, really high because we are going to get a lot of points in transition.

The biggest question is whether or not our ability to force turnovers translates to tougher competition. We've really ramped-up our ability to force turnovers in the three games since the Gonzaga loss, including the game against Indiana. If we keep that up against stiffer competition, then our ceiling becomes sky-high.

[rsvman]

Why do I get the feeling that "Old Dukie" is really "Young TarHeel"?



Anyway, as to the game, the shooting was poor, especially in the first half, and there were a few blatant defensive breakdowns. It was clear that K wasn't happy at certain points in the game.

But the guys continued to play hard, and made a lot of nice defensive plays leading to amazing fast-break opportunities. That should be this team's bread and butter all season long. I just hope we don't lose guys to injury on out-of-control fast breaks.

[Kedsy]

I thought RJ really just kept our baseline high. I wouldn't say he carried us but his play was at a high enough level to make the up and down play of others not matter against this level of opponent.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing that a player can have a 27-15 game on 71% shooting, along with 4 assists to only 1 turnover, and he's barely mentioned in the post-game thread.

Also, a lot of people have been talking about Javin, but 10 points on 5 for 5 shooting with 4 rebounds, 5 blocks, 3 steals, and 2 assists (but no turnovers) in 19 minutes is a pretty outrageous stat line.

[AtlDuke72]

[QUOTE=CDu;1106415]Anyway, aside from one poster’s ridiculous hot-takes, I thought we played pretty well.

Maybe old Dukies are like old soldiers and simply fade away. Lets hope it happens soon.

[JasonEvans]

I haven't had much time to post, this season, but I've still been able to watch all the games. I just have to say that it is really, really fun to watch this team play defense. For this reason, I found last night's game particularly encouraging. There's no doubt this team can score, even if there is room for improvement in terms of overall efficiency. However, I can say without reservation that our defense is very good. Better yet, our defensive style complements our preferred offensive style, which is something I couldn't say last year when our zone D made it harder for Tre Duvall, Marvin, etc. to get out into transition. When the D is clicking, it reminds me of the 2001 team.

Excellent post, COYS. We have missed you around these parts.

Let me also echo the many folks who say this is a wondrous team to watch play D. They enthusiastically switch everything, which makes it extremely hard to get a good shot against them. Thus far, it seems like the communication has been quite good on the switching... well, except for one moment in the first half when Jack and Zion were both next to a Hartford player and both thought the other guy would take him, leading to an easy layup down the lane for the Hartford guy. Ha!