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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Harold Baines and Lee Smith were selected by the Today’s Game Era committee as new members of the Hall of Fame.

    And I thought Jack Morris last year was a bad pick. Admittedly, closers are relatively new, and harder to judge.

    But Baines? So far below the average HOFer. On baseball-reference.com, he comes in as the 74th best right fielder overall. (He’d rank even lower as a DH.). Very good player, but not really close to being a hall-of-famer.
    Yeah, he was a fine player, but pretty ridiculous as a HOF selection. Why even have the main balloting if a bunch of vets are going to ignore it (and Baines wasn't a guy who came close but never quite got in, he was an overwhelming no) and put it guys anyway? There are some guys who don't make it, and lots of people think it's a shame and argue they got jobbed, etc... Harold Baines was most certainly not one of those guys.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  2. #22
    Based on Baines, does that mean Adrian Beltre should start thinking about the HoF?

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    6 miles from Heaven, 10 miles from Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Based on Baines, does that mean Adrian Beltre should start thinking about the HoF?
    Beltre’s Pretty much a shoo-in. 3000 hits, great third baseman. Raises the average of the position.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Based on Baines, does that mean Adrian Beltre should start thinking about the HoF?
    Beltre is a no-brainer for the HOF. 3000+ hits, and an extraordinary fielder at 3B.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Beltre’s Pretty much a shoo-in. 3000 hits, great third baseman. Raises the average of the position.
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Beltre is a no-brainer for the HOF. 3000+ hits, and an extraordinary fielder at 3B.
    Yep. In terms of similarity scores, for example, 8 of Beltre's top 10 hitting comps are all HoFers. And only two of those (Ripken and Jones) played comparably/more difficult defensive positions. And Beltre was an elite defensive 3B, much moreso than Jones.

    And he has the 3,000-hit plateau which is the rubber-stamp of the ticket.

    And he's 30 WAR higher than the average HoF 3B.

    Beltre is a no-doubter.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    If Harold Baines is a HOFer, then Andruw Jones has to be. Aside from a sub-par batting average, isn't Jones an obvious choice? He only got 7% of the vote last year... which is just a crime against anyone who thinks defense matters. Dude probably saved 5 runs a week with his glove for the decade he was in Atlanta.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    If Harold Baines is a HOFer, then Andruw Jones has to be. Aside from a sub-par batting average, isn't Jones an obvious choice? He only got 7% of the vote last year... which is just a crime against anyone who thinks defense matters. Dude probably saved 5 runs a week with his glove for the decade he was in Atlanta.
    Andruw should be in regardless. He was the Ozzie Smith of CFs, except with a far better bat. Even people who don't think defense matters usually make an exception for generational defensive talents.

    But Baines... geez.. smh... good player but nowhere near HOF worthy. Dale Murphy and Fred McGriff were both better.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Whose idea was this new committee? The existing process was not perfect, but it generally got the job done. Having a new group second guess the work of previous voters makes no sense. I kind of feel bad for Harold Baines as his name is now really being dragged through the mud. The Hall of Fame will still be an incredible place to visit for anyone interested in baseball history but the prestige of a player being inducted is taking a real hit.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    apropos to not much, a friend and I went to the Hall many years ago when it was undergoing major renovations...it was in the Winter or Spring... The place was virtually empty, and due to the renovations they had all kinds of
    valuable memorabilia lying around, almost no employees in sight...we noted we could've grabbed armloads of Babe Ruth stuff (uniforms, bats) and no one would've seen us. I imagine security is vastly tighter now...

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Whose idea was this new committee? The existing process was not perfect, but it generally got the job done. Having a new group second guess the work of previous voters makes no sense. I kind of feel bad for Harold Baines as his name is now really being dragged through the mud. The Hall of Fame will still be an incredible place to visit for anyone interested in baseball history but the prestige of a player being inducted is taking a real hit.
    The veterans committee has changed a bit over time, but it's been around since the HOF opened in 1939. And while it was initially created to consider players from the 19th century, it's been voting on, and electing, players who were previously passed over by the writers for a long time.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    The veterans committee has changed a bit over time, but it's been around since the HOF opened in 1939. And while it was initially created to consider players from the 19th century, it's been voting on, and electing, players who were previously passed over by the writers for a long time.
    And these veterans' committees have been voting in dubious candidates for a long time. If you were one of Frank Frisch's buddies, you had a good shot of getting in.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    6 miles from Heaven, 10 miles from Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    And these veterans' committees have been voting in dubious candidates for a long time. If you were one of Frank Frisch's buddies, you had a good shot of getting in.
    That’s true, but they were doing a better job of it in the past ~20 years, with very few subpar selections.

    A discussion on MLB TV had a theory that the list of available candidates for that committee is somewhat short right now, as many who they might consider are still on the writers’ ballot. So, instead of risking the wrath of, say, 2014, when nobody was selected, they went ahead and selected two. Smith, at least, is a reasonable pick if you are OK with closers, and their small IP, being selected. Baines is at least better than Jessie Haines. But if he’s used as a new bar to cross over, there better be a bigger trophy room.

    (Maybe there’s hope for WHITAKER, Grich, Evans (both of them), Hernandez and Murphy. All much better than Baines, who was certainly a very good player, just not close to being one of the top 250 or so in history.)

  13. #33
    I think the Veterans Committee gets a pass for all time for keeping this name alive for future generations who visit the Hall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eppa_Rixey

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Harper

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Interestingly, the Nate front office has drawn a line in the sand on bidding for Harper. My guess is he goes elsewhere. Philly and NY would be my best guesses at this point. The Phils have money to spend, and it is hard to imagine the Yanks not getting involved. I would add the Cubs and Dodgers too, but I think both may sit out the big-ticket items with already bloated payrolls.
    Looks like Harper's market is shrinking fast. The Nats certainly seem out of it, as do the Yankees, and the Cubs don't have payroll space. I assume the Phillies will sign one of Harper and Machado. The White Sox want to be a player. The mystery team is the Dodgers, who seem interested in Harper, but don't want a 10 year contract. My guess is that he gets less than the Nats offered in September.

    As a Nats fan, I'm glad he's not coming back. He's a good player, and no doubt will have another MVP year, but he's inconsistent. He's also now a bad defender at any outfield position. I don't think he's good enough to justify such a big percentage of payroll.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    The Addison Russell saga just escalated. His ex-wife (and mother of one of his kids), who provided details on the domestic abuse she suffered from Russell, went public with that info today. In addition, his previous ex-girlfriend (and mother of his other kid) went public of the abuse he gave her, and how he still tries to shirk child support.

    Rough day to say the least. Their details are brutal to read.

  16. #36
    MLB reaches a deal with the Cuban Baseball Federation for players to come here without having to defect or flee. Veterans aged 25 and up with 6 years of pro experience will be free to come over without restriction, and others will be treated similarly to players in Japan.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...sign-defecting
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  17. #37
    Daniel Murphy to the Rockies for 2 years and $24 million

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  18. #38
    The Dodgers freed up $15+ million or so in payroll as they trade Matt Kemp($21.75MM), Yasiel Puig($9.2MM), and Alex Wood($6MM) for Homer Bailey($23MM) and two prospects. I think Puig and Wood are eligible for arbitration which is why I put the payroll savings at $15 million.

    Could the Dodgers be making a run at Bryce Harper?

    I do think this helps the Reds with some major league caliber players. Something that has been in short supply on their roster, particularly pitching.

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    The Dodgers freed up $15+ million or so in payroll as they trade Matt Kemp($21.75MM), Yasiel Puig($9.2MM), and Alex Wood($6MM) for Homer Bailey($23MM) and two prospects. I think Puig and Wood are eligible for arbitration which is why I put the payroll savings at $15 million.

    Could the Dodgers be making a run at Bryce Harper?

    I do think this helps the Reds with some major league caliber players. Something that has been in short supply on their roster, particularly pitching.
    Harper and Kluber.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Based on Baines, does that mean Adrian Beltre should start thinking about the HoF?
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Beltre’s Pretty much a shoo-in. 3000 hits, great third baseman. Raises the average of the position.
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    Beltre is a no-brainer for the HOF. 3000+ hits, and an extraordinary fielder at 3B.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yep. In terms of similarity scores, for example, 8 of Beltre's top 10 hitting comps are all HoFers. And only two of those (Ripken and Jones) played comparably/more difficult defensive positions. And Beltre was an elite defensive 3B, much moreso than Jones.

    And he has the 3,000-hit plateau which is the rubber-stamp of the ticket.

    And he's 30 WAR higher than the average HoF 3B.

    Beltre is a no-doubter.
    Sorry, never really replied to this. The reason I asked about Beltre is his wondrous 2004 season. As we know, this is the height of the Barry Bonds era and Beltre was in a contract year. He put up numbers that year unlike anything else he would do again. If I'm remembering things correctly, the Dodgers declined to sign him to a long term deal so he left for the Mariners.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...eltrad01.shtml

    Don't get me wrong, as a Dodgers fan I was a huge fan of Beltre in his early years. But he along with Shawn Green, Gary Sheffield, and Eric Gagne were all supposedly on the list:

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...eroids-in-2003

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

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