"My coaching sucks"—Roy Williams

[rsvman]

Quoting UrinalCake (selectively) from above thread:

The typical IC response whenever they lose a game is that Roy cares more about the tournament than the regular season, and he’s willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run. That reasoning makes absolutely no sense

I am in no way defending IC.
I am pointing out this rationalization was rampant on DBR in the postgame Gonzaga thread.

Any successful (deliberate word choice) Div 1 coach is wired never to want to lose.

I could be wrong, but I didn't read the vast majority of the posts in the post-Gonzaga game thread that way. I don't think they were saying Coach K was "willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run." I think they were saying that losing really sucks, but perhaps there is a silver lining. That maybe the team would learn some valuable lessons from the game (note how that is NOT the same as Coach K essentially wanting them to lose in order to teach said lessons). I'm pretty sure he wants to win every tournament his team is ever in; I'm sure he would tell you that the team would learn a lot more by WINNING a tournament than they do by losing a game.

To me the difference is not subtle.

[Kfanarmy]

The typical IC response whenever they lose a game is that Roy cares more about the tournament than the regular season, and he’s willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run. That reasoning makes absolutely no sense, and is just an excuse to avoid the real issue of how bad their coaching is.

- Why would taking out your starters and having them ride the bench while Michigan pulls away somehow make you a better team in March?
- How does taking a loss and therefore damaging your seeding give you a better chance of success in the tournament? UNC’s loss to Wofford last year basically cost them a 1 seed.
- Why would you want to teach losing to your team?
- EVERY coach cares more about March than November. That is not unique to Roy. Yet other coaches can still play to win in November while simultaneously building towards March.
- I get that Roy likes to experiment with different lineups early in the season. K does that too. But there’s a difference between playing St Francis and playing Michigan. The reason you schedule those cupcake teams is to do your tinkering. You don’t tinker in a marquee matchup against a top 10 team.

There’s such a stark difference in how K coached us through the Gonzaga game versus Roy in this one. When we got down big K continued to fight, made some adjustments (such as removing Bolden), and let his players do what they do best to spurn the comeback. When Roy’s team was down he sat on the bench and pouted, refused to call a timeout, and pulled his starters while the lead became insurmountable.

After the starters returned they made a 10-0 run to cut the deficit from 22 to 12. They missed an open three that would have brought it to 9. If Roy hadn’t jerked his players around so much earlier, the game could have actually gotten interesting.

I don't think Coach Williams liked the effort-offense, defense and communication - that the first team was giving in the second half. IMO that was the reason they sat.

[Jedweb]

Like most DBR consumers I found Roy's candid assessment of blue smurf basketball and his coaching thereof a wonderful dessert after enjoying their futility in Ann Arbor. But, i wanted to say, "Roy, you stank! Your whole team stank! Don't you know that stank is past tense for stink? That stunk is the participle? Then I realized that Ol' Roy's an alumnus of the institution which now employs him. It appears from the past several years that uncch did teach him semi-plausible deniability. Anyway, the Wolverines have provided some fine entertainment. Hats off!

[fuse]

I could be wrong, but I didn't read the vast majority of the posts in the post-Gonzaga game thread that way. I don't think they were saying Coach K was "willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run." I think they were saying that losing really sucks, but perhaps there is a silver lining. That maybe the team would learn some valuable lessons from the game (note how that is NOT the same as Coach K essentially wanting them to lose in order to teach said lessons). I'm pretty sure he wants to win every tournament his team is ever in; I'm sure he would tell you that the team would learn a lot more by WINNING a tournament than they do by losing a game.

To me the difference is not subtle.

I’d be the first to admit online communications sans emojis are tone deaf.

I’ll tip my cap to you as a more optimistic reader than I.😀

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Like most DBR consumers I found Roy's candid assessment of blue smurf basketball and his coaching thereof a wonderful dessert after enjoying their futility in Ann Arbor. But, i wanted to say, "Roy, you stank! Your whole team stank! Don't you know that stank is past tense for stink? That stunk is the participle? Then I realized that Ol' Roy's an alumnus of the institution which now employs him. It appears from the past several years that uncch did teach him semi-plausible deniability. Anyway, the Wolverines have provided some fine entertainment. Hats off!

as the narrator in The Grinch says...."....STINK...STANK...STUNK..."

[BLPOG]

Perfect sign material for the Crazies when the CHeats come to town!

I agree. It should read just like the post title: "My coaching sucks" - Roy Williams (perhaps followed by the date).

After all, how can Coach K get mad about using Roy's own words?

[niveklaen]

I seem to remember some people saying that they liked it when K benches a player - especially a freshman - early in the season to send a message - iirc that happened with Tatum and with Tyus and they both played better afterwards. I dont recall if K ever benched the entire starting unit, but definitely with individual players.

[OldPhiKap]

I seem to remember some people saying that they liked it when K benches a player - especially a freshman - early in the season to send a message - iirc that happened with Tatum and with Tyus and they both played better afterwards. I dont recall if K ever benched the entire starting unit, but definitely with individual players.

He has done it, although not a lot.

[ncexnyc]

Where is this young Carolina team that is mentioned in the article? I seem to recall the pundits having UNC so highly rated at the start of the season because of all the experience they had coming back.

[wsb3]

He has done it, although not a lot.

1992 at Clemson is one that stands out. Subs whittled into lead. K put starters back in. Duke won. I think Brian Davis had a career high.I have tried without success to find a copy of that game.

[OldPhiKap]

1992 at Clemson is one that stands out. Subs whittled into lead. K put starters back in. Duke won. I think Brian Davis had a career high.I have tried without success to find a copy of that game.

A Wake game memory comes to mind too although I have no specifics or way to even check if that is right. And I seem to remember the second five energizing the crowd at a Cameron and holding their own.

(If any of that is right, I’m retiring)

[proelitedota]

K did it against Richmond one year in 2008. Pulled starters.

[UrinalCake]

I could be wrong, but I didn't read the vast majority of the posts in the post-Gonzaga game thread that way. I don't think they were saying Coach K was "willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run." I think they were saying that losing really sucks, but perhaps there is a silver lining.

Yeah, I think there's a difference between saying you're willing to let your players play through mistakes and learn with the knowledge that it will benefit them in the long run, versus pulling all your players off the court for ten minutes while your opponent builds an insurmountable lead. But I wholeheartedly acknowledge that fan bases can be biased and hypocritical, myself included

K has definitely pulled his starters in order to send a message. But I don't recall him ever leaving them out for that long. Aside from that move, Roy's substitutions throughout the whole game were nonsensical. They got out to a big lead early in the game and he subsequently makes wholesale substitutions, killing their momentum.

[duke2x]

I had no idea Roy was a losing contestant on You Bet Your Life.

I think K pulled the starters in a game against KY ca. 1999 as well. It works well enough for Duke, but sending the Blue Team in doesn't work for UNC always.

[westwall]

I could be wrong, but I didn't read the vast majority of the posts in the post-Gonzaga game thread that way. I don't think they were saying Coach K was "willing to sacrifice a November game in order to benefit his team in the long run." I think they were saying that losing really sucks, but perhaps there is a silver lining. That maybe the team would learn some valuable lessons from the game (note how that is NOT the same as Coach K essentially wanting them to lose in order to teach said lessons). I'm pretty sure he wants to win every tournament his team is ever in; I'm sure he would tell you that the team would learn a lot more by WINNING a tournament than they do by losing a game.

To me the difference is not subtle.

My view almost exactly -- but must spread sporks around first!