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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    It's funny you should mention that, because as we were watching the game last night my wife went, "How is Michigan not No. 1? Oh wait, Duke is Duke." Which definitely plays a part in it, but the fact that Duke has a few more "top-tier" wins than Michigan probably helps to outweigh the one loss in voters minds. FWIW, UVA is still No. 1 in the only rankings that really end up mattering, the NET, followed by Duke and then Michigan. It'd be so helpful if the NCAA would provide some details regarding how the NET is really calculated to figure out why that's the case exactly, but I guess we have to be satisfied with small steps forward, haha.

    P.S. I think I successfully avoided the dual "our/we" problem in this post. Self Sporks! Haha.
    Michigan had maybe their worst game today in the last 34...I think they're 32-2 in that time, about the last half of last year and first half of this year. That's not bad. They'll drop a little, but they've been very consistently excellent for in effect a full season.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Michigan had maybe their worst game today in the last 34...I think they're 32-2 in that time, about the last half of last year and first half of this year. That's not bad. They'll drop a little, but they've been very consistently excellent for in effect a full season.
    Yeah, this is one of those games where everything went wrong and Michigan still had a shot to win, which counterintuitively could be seen as a positive for the teamís overall prospects. Iggy didnít score a point, we turned it over about twice as much as we usually do, couldnít hit a three, were playing at 11 am local time, and playing on the road in a building where weíve only ever one 2 (TWO!) games... and yet we still couldíve won the game if a couple threes fall and a couple iffy home foul calls go our way. Sucks to fall behind MSU in the B1G race but the loss isnít one that changes the teamís outlook unless the issues become a pattern.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Yeah, this is one of those games where everything went wrong and Michigan still had a shot to win, which counterintuitively could be seen as a positive for the teamís overall prospects. Iggy didnít score a point, we turned it over about twice as much as we usually do, couldnít hit a three, were playing at 11 am local time, and playing on the road in a building where weíve only ever one 2 (TWO!) games... and yet we still couldíve won the game if a couple threes fall and a couple iffy home foul calls go our way. Sucks to fall behind MSU in the B1G race but the loss isnít one that changes the teamís outlook unless the issues become a pattern.
    Hah! The intentional foul call when Barzdeikis grabbed Wisconsin's Happ (49 percent FT shooter) with 45 seconds left was unusual.. Happ was nowhere near the ball. Usually such calls are only made for fouling a player with the ball headed for an easy basket. Beilein almost had a stroke in disputing the call with the referee.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Hah! The intentional foul call when Barzdeikis grabbed Wisconsin's Happ (49 percent FT shooter) with 45 seconds left was unusual.. Happ was nowhere near the ball. Usually such calls are only made for fouling a player with the ball headed for an easy basket. Beilein almost had a stroke in disputing the call with the referee.
    That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

    Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by richardjackson199 View Post
    That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

    Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.
    On the other hand, I've never been a fan of foulfests at the end of games. I think you should be making a play for the ball, otherwise if you're fouling for the sake of fouling and it should be penalized to reduce the frequency of those plays.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    On the other hand, I've never been a fan of foulfests at the end of games. I think you should be making a play for the ball, otherwise if you're fouling for the sake of fouling and it should be penalized to reduce the frequency of those plays.
    I could not possibly agree more with you. I would make that call each and every time. The one fatal flaw of the game of basketball is the standard policy of deliberately committing a violation of the rules in order to try to gain an advantage, and anything that penalizes that approach is OK in my book.

  7. #127
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    And Kansasí luck runs out! For those worried about Syracuse being a bad loss, losing to a below .500 WVU team, even on the road, is arguably worse.

    And re: Michigan, the iffy calls werenít necessarily that one at the end... but regarding that, I think Beilein was more mad that the foul WASNT called a second earlier when Iggy fouled Happ when he did have the ball.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    And Kansas’ luck runs out! For those worried about Syracuse being a bad loss, losing to a below .500 WVU team, even on the road, is arguably worse.

    And re: Michigan, the iffy calls weren’t necessarily that one at the end... but regarding that, I think Beilein was more mad that the foul WASNT called a second earlier when Iggy fouled Happ when he did have the ball.
    Yea, we've seen some stuff like that called/not called by some crappy acc refs recently when we were trying to foul the guy with the ball late in the game and it was ignored but an intentional/flagrant was called off-the-ball giving them (can't remember which team) two shots, the ball and basically, the ball game.
    Last edited by -jk; 01-19-2019 at 04:08 PM. Reason: ...
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Yea, we've seen some I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. like that called/not called by some crappy acc refs recently when we were trying to foul the guy with the ball late in the game and it was ignored but an intentional/flagrant was called off-the-ball giving them (can't remember which team) two shots, the ball and basically, the ball game.
    At BC last year call on Duval.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by richardjackson199 View Post
    That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

    Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.
    And if you want to complain about not letting the players decide, the traveling call at the end of the Ala-Tenn game is much worse because before the call that game was anybody's game, the call basically won the game for Tenn and it was a very iffy call, it might have been technically a travel, but refs don't a call on similar plays more than 5% of the time

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    And if you want to complain about not letting the players decide, the traveling call at the end of the Ala-Tenn game is much worse because before the call that game was anybody's game, the call basically won the game for Tenn and it was a very iffy call, it might have been technically a travel, but refs don't a call on similar plays more than 5% of the time
    Agreed. Another awful call. I think he was still dribbling and did not travel before starting his move. But you're going to make that call right there for that? When a player has a chance to win the game on a last second shot and knock off the new #1 team in the country on their home floor. Awful call. He caught the ball and started dribbling - no advantage gained, and IMO no obvious travel. Let the players decide unless there is clearly a violation that needs to be called.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardjackson199 View Post
    At BC last year call on Duval.
    Thanks!

    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  13. #133
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    The refs are trying to singlehandedly save Tennessee from an upset... they completely blew that hook and hold crap.

  14. #134
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    Gotta feel for Vandy. All the excitement of their big recruiting class coming in, and then they lose Garland for the season. A number of close losses, and then a chance at pulling a huge upset but they get hosed by several calls down the stretch - not just the "hook and hold" technical but also numerous drives by TN in which they were awarded and-1's but it looked like the defender was straight up.

    Williams was amazing, 23-23 from the free throw line (a separate question is how he got to the line that many times, but to knock them all down was clutch). TN does look beatable, Vandy could get inside the lane on them pretty easily.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    The refs are trying to singlehandedly save Tennessee from an upset... they completely blew that hook and hold crap.
    No kidding. That was just not a good call. Of course Vanderbilt did a pretty good job of preventing the upset, too. They had some really boneheaded plays at the end of the game.
    That was some very nice free throw shooting though. Wish we could do that.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Gotta feel for Vandy - a chance at pulling a huge upset but they get hosed by several calls down the stretch - not just the "hook and hold" technical but also numerous drives by TN in which they were awarded and-1's but it looked like the defender was straight up.

    Williams was amazing, 23-23 from the free throw line (a separate question is how he got to the line that many times, but to knock them all down was clutch). TN does look beatable, Vandy could get inside the lane on them pretty easily.
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  17. #137
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    I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.
    No, the "hook and hold" or lack thereof happened with about 1:20 left in regulation when Vandy was up 76-70. Tennessee hit both FTs and scored immediately off the inbounds and was now down only 76-74.

    Agree that the arm fling by the Tennessee player should have been an F1 after the common foul against the Vandy player. No clue how that was just "getting tangled up".

    Thankfully, the refs lack of common sense and logic that added 1.3 seconds to the 2.0 left on the clock, instead of taking it away, didn't directly lead to Tennessee's victory.

    Vandy made plenty of mistakes and bad decisions at the end of regulation and OT, but it was definitely not a good look for the refs in terms of incorrect decisions affecting the outcome of a game
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.
    As tbyers said the play was in regulation. Looked to me like two big men going up for a rebound. They did have their arms locked, but I couldnít see one player using it more than the other. If you want to call a foul thatís fine, but to add a F1 on top? Gave TN a four point play, cutting a 6 point deficit to 2, in addition to several minutes of stoppage time while they reviewed everything which killed Vandyís momentum. Believe me, if this had happened to us these boards would be overflowing with fans discussing how badly we had gotten hosed.

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    The refs may have helped Tennessee, but the Vols at the end helped them more.
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