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Thread: Duval vs Fultz

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I never understood why the Monstars didn't just steal Jordan's talent.
    Only Dean Smith could usurp MJ's talent

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Only Dean Smith could usurp MJ's talent
    There is another.

    I'm pretty sure Ol' Roy inherited Deano's ability to defer the expression of talent.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Science, and Rick Barry, might have a solution for those free throws.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    I feel for Fultz. I can't imagine what that must be like.

    I also call BS on a shoulder issue, though, mainly because I can't fathom changing something as ingrained in you as shot mechanics. Look at the various bizarre shooting strokes Fultz exhibits from the FT line, for example. It's going to be hard to convince me that those are the result of compensation for some sort of shoulder ailment.

    If he grimaced during a normal shot or maybe had a different arc or different arm placement, I would have an easier time buying it. He also doesn't even seem to have touch or feel on his shot. For those reasons, to me, this is tailor made example of Da Yips.

    - Chillin

  5. #65

    Hot potato

    Reminds me a little of how K got Mason Plumlee to speed/change up his FT routine to get him to think less.

    Feel bad for Fultz, and wish him the best surmounting this mental hurdle.

    I still maintain that he should maybe try something as simple as shooting his FTs lefty.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    I feel for Fultz. I can't imagine what that must be like.

    I also call BS on a shoulder issue, though, mainly because I can't fathom changing something as ingrained in you as shot mechanics. Look at the various bizarre shooting strokes Fultz exhibits from the FT line, for example. It's going to be hard to convince me that those are the result of compensation for some sort of shoulder ailment.

    If he grimaced during a normal shot or maybe had a different arc or different arm placement, I would have an easier time buying it. He also doesn't even seem to have touch or feel on his shot. For those reasons, to me, this is tailor made example of Da Yips.

    - Chillin
    I agree. If his shoulder is that bad, I don't see how he can play NBA games at all. Not as rough as the NFL, but pretty darn rough. I think it's in his head and not in his shoulder. GoDuke!

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I agree. If his shoulder is that bad, I don't see how he can play NBA games at all. Not as rough as the NFL, but pretty darn rough. I think it's in his head and not in his shoulder. GoDuke!
    Man, I've heard of that happening to a handful of pro golfers...this is bizarre....

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    There is another.

    I'm pretty sure Ol' Roy inherited Deano's ability to defer the expression of talent.
    Yea, Ole Roy learned well from the Master and I think he’s exceeded Deano in this area. Jordan would play 4 years under Roy’s system and likely average about 15 a game. I do think he’d grow into a lottery pick after Roy’s tutelage.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Fultz-- the latest

    "The former No. 1 overall draft pick has been diagnosed with neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome, according to Fultz’s agent, Raymond Brothers (via ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski)."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.5af3d4f455e3

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    "The former No. 1 overall draft pick has been diagnosed with neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome, according to Fultz’s agent, Raymond Brothers (via ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski)."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.5af3d4f455e3
    I am not medically trained. Does that mean he can't successfully shoot a basketball?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I am not medically trained. Does that mean he can't successfully shoot a basketball?
    I'm not medically trained either, but I've discussed shoulder issues with my ortho at length. I was shocked to learn that shoulders are configured very differently from person to person, and many people have a left shoulder and right shoulder that are not put together anatomically alike. Amazing. My wife is one of those people. Apparently they are very complex. All of that to say I cannot answer your question, but if I had to give it a guess, I'd say no, at this time, he cannot - and we hope to remedy that.

  12. #72
    So this goes from being a mental block that might be cured with meditation/practice/change of setting to a neurological disorder that can never be fixed? not sure that his agent's decision to release this info helps the client...

    (edit to add - not a doctor, but have never heard of a neurological condition being fixed...)

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    It was always possible to be BOTH a mental block and a physical condition. I mean, if I had some nerve damage in my shoulder, I'd be double-pumping free throws as well.

    Hopefully this diagnosis is correct (and not just Fultz / his team cycling through MDs until they found one that would diagnose him with something). If the diagnosis is correct, there are treatments for his condition (per Mayo Clinic article). Hopefully the young man gets right and proves all his doubters wrong. Fultz just turned 20 in May, and people are/were giving up on him. Let's see what happens from here.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I feel sorry for the kid and hope he somehow deals with this. Having said that, when I first read the diagnosis on The Crawl, I thought "neurogenic thoracic" sounded an awful lot like someone making up a fake diagnosis for choking.
    But evidently this does exist...nonetheless, it also seems plausible that the condition is more psychological than physical...whatever it is, hope he prevails.

  15. #75
    neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome is a strange sounding thing, but it is an actual (and all physical) thing. The "neurogenic" means the symptoms are produced by nerve damage, not bone damage. One of the main causes of TOS is repetitive motion, especially in young athletes who get it. Unfortunately, perhaps, for Mr. Fultz, once someone appears to have problems with their shot, they are usually encouraged/assigned to shoot more, which of course would then worsen their TOS...

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketeli View Post
    neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome is a strange sounding thing, but it is an actual (and all physical) thing. The "neurogenic" means the symptoms are produced by nerve damage, not bone damage. One of the main causes of TOS is repetitive motion, especially in young athletes who get it. Unfortunately, perhaps, for Mr. Fultz, once someone appears to have problems with their shot, they are usually encouraged/assigned to shoot more, which of course would then worsen their TOS...
    I'm not a physician. I've had a few clients who have had similar diagnoses, usually after a car crash. At least in my experience, the cause and treatment of this can be a bit controversial. Some doctors, often thoracic surgeons, do a surgery that involves resection of a rib.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    TOS

    Some form of thoracic outlet syndrome has become fairly common with baseball players, especially pitchers. The record on recovery is mixed.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Some form of thoracic outlet syndrome has become fairly common with baseball players, especially pitchers. The record on recovery is mixed.
    I'm not sure how much I'd rely on recovery data from pitchers. A big part of the problem for pitchers is that they lose velocity even after recovery. Not as big an issue in basketball where you aren't violently trying to throw a ball in an awkward motion.

    That said, there's basically no evidence in bball players, so can't really say what to expect.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Yeah, but

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm not sure how much I'd rely on recovery data from pitchers. A big part of the problem for pitchers is that they lose velocity even after recovery. Not as big an issue in basketball where you aren't violently trying to throw a ball in an awkward motion.

    That said, there's basically no evidence in bball players, so can't really say what to expect.
    There’s a pretty good record on TJ recovery rates for pitchers, even though they throw the ball hard with an awkward motion.

    With TOS, I think the issue is that the surgery is relatively new, so there may be subtleties that the surgeons are still learning.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I'm not sure how much I'd rely on recovery data from pitchers. A big part of the problem for pitchers is that they lose velocity even after recovery. Not as big an issue in basketball where you aren't violently trying to throw a ball in an awkward motion.

    That said, there's basically no evidence in bball players, so can't really say what to expect.
    I believe Fultz has been mostly throwing the ball more or less towards the basket in an awkward motion.

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