Is This Duke Team More Talented Than Some NBA Teams?

[OldPhiKap]

-Jason "I would bet large, large sums of money on the Cavs -22.5 against Duke right now" Evans

Yup.


48 minutes.

Different three-point line.

Professionally conditioned athletes against 18 year-olds just working up to college stamina requirements.

A bench full of players still good enough to make a pro squad.



We have a ton of talent, but the only way we cover that line is if the Cavs truly play their entire squad at the end and rest their starters. Starters v. starters, the fourth quarter alone would be a 20-point swing in favor of the professionals.

And to be clear -- I think we have an incredible college team!!!

[OldPhiKap]

And thought of too late to edit:

shorter shot clock which requires a quicker offensive set, and more possessions requiring a bunch more running.


I guess for the bet, the spread would obviously depend on whether we are using pro rules or college. I am assuming pro.

[JasonEvans]

And thought of too late to edit:

shorter shot clock which requires a quicker offensive set, and more possessions requiring a bunch more running.

I spoke to Marvin Bagley a couple days ago (pod preview spoiler!!) and he said the biggest difference in the college and pro games is the speed and pace of the game.

[JasonEvans]

Here is yet another point about the hypothetical Duke vs Cleveland matchup:

Cavaliers guard Collin Sexton has been, by any measure, a below-average NBA player to this very early point in his professional career. Sexton may have a bright future but, after a full college season as a high-end prospect, a full summer of development and a full NBA training camp, he is an actively harmful NBA player on most nights. In contrast, Sexton would have likely been the preseason national player of the year if he returned to college for a second season and, at the very least, would present a huge advantage for the Cavs against Tre Jones… while being one of the bottom-tier players in Cleveland’s rotation.

Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

[Wander]

Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

[OldPhiKap]

Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

More importantly -- quien es mas macho?

[Bluedog]

Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

Yep, Semi Ojeleye couldn't crack the starting lineup at Duke 3 years ago. He's gotten way more minutes in the NBA than at Duke.

So, the OP's initial premise is not THAT ridiculous. And the OP said 5 years, not 3. Saying Duke NOW could compete with an NBA team NOW is ridiculous, though. Even Jason said that sportswriting crew thinks Alabama players in 5 years would be able to beat the Buffalo Bills of today. The comparison is not about competing now, it's about the POTENTIAL and collection of talent on a given squad.

[DukeTrinity11]

Here is yet another point about the hypothetical Duke vs Cleveland matchup:



Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

It's a star driven league though Jason so I'm less concerned with how the 8th guy on Duke matches up with the 8th guy on the Cavs. 2 of our big 3 would be on the court at all times.

In 5 years, I expect Reddish to be at least as good as Devin Booker, Barrett to be as good as DeRozan, Zion to be as impactful as Draymond and Tre Jones should be a facsimile of modern day Tyus (serviceable backup PG).

In this scenario, I think the talent differential between our top end players and the Cavs best players now that Love is injured (Cedi Osman? Hood?) would make this is a competitive game despite our bench not having a chance against theirs.

Now if Bolden can be as impactful as Mason Plumlee in the NBA in 5 years, watch out!

[DukeTrinity11]

Yep, Semi Ojeleye couldn't crack the starting lineup at Duke 3 years ago. He's gotten way more minutes in the NBA than at Duke.

So, the OP's initial premise is not THAT ridiculous. And the OP said 5 years, not 3. Saying Duke NOW could compete with an NBA team NOW is ridiculous, though. Even Jason said that sportswriting crew thinks Alabama players in 5 years would be able to beat the Buffalo Bills of today. The comparison is not about competing now, it's about the POTENTIAL and collection of talent on a given squad.

Bingo and the most reputable draft site has all 3 of Zion, Cam and Barrett as Tier or Tier 2 prospects with Tre Jones as Tier 5 so it looks like a lot of the scouts and experts expect them to be surefire NBA starters (or at least a backup in the case of Tre).

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/11/0...son-big-board/

[-jk]

Bueller?

(Ok, enough...)

-jk

[JasonEvans]

Bueller?

(Ok, enough...)

-jk

Yeah, I been saying "can we slow our roll a bit?" for several days on this hype train.

So, what is the line for the Cleveland Cavs vs Army game?

[johnb]

I say tomato. You say partridge.

Leaving aside the fact that no one wants actual players to read this thread, we're talking about 2 different things. NO ONE has implied that this team could start playing an NBA schedule right now. The question is whether this team could be competitive if transported into November 2023.

I can't read the future, but I can read the past.

We've never had a team where three guys are being discussed as top 3 picks, but we've had very talented teams before.

How would this team have done 5 years after leaving Duke?
Williams, Battier, Boozer, Dunleavy, Boozer, Duhon, James, Horvath, Sanders.

Obviously, there isn't the depth for a whole season, and the team would need to wrap Mr Williams in bubble wrap, but that team would have been competitive with some NBA teams for a few games (especially if the science fiction rules allow for picking up actual (and easily accessible) NBA players to round out the bench).

Playing Army close has nothing to do with this argument--we're talking 2023, not this year.

If you want to talk undefeated this year, I'd be on the other side (ain't no way, unless you want to talk undefeated through January 1, 2019). I'm not even sure we should be the favorites for the conference...

[Billy Dat]

At the risk of increasing the pulse of everyone who thinks this thread is both a huge jinx and displays unappealing hubris to the fans from other teams (how low have we sunk?), I am doubling down that this team could not only beat some NBA teams, but beat them quite handily.

Which teams?...let me tell you.

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets

I am not talking about Jayson Tatum, Uncle Drew, Jamal Murray and MPII. I am talking about Dillard Crocker, Al Guokas and Chuck Cooper.

Both of these squads finished at the bottom of their divisions in the 1949-50 inaugural NBA season. I am not sure the game could even be played as I expect most of the players would either flee or faint upon watching the "lay-up" line.

[Matches]

I am doubling down that this team could not only beat some NBA teams, but beat them quite handily.

Which teams?...let me tell you.

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets

I am not talking about Jayson Tatum, Uncle Drew, Jamal Murray and MPII. I am talking about Dillard Crocker, Al Guokas and Chuck Cooper.

Both of these squads finished at the bottom of their divisions in the 1949-50 inaugural NBA season. I am not sure the game could even be played as I expect most of the players would either flee or faint upon watching the "lay-up" line.

Yea, those guys are probably pretty old by now. I would think their conditioning would fail over a full game. They might be able to hang early but 2018-19 Duke would wear them down eventually.

UNLESS the old guys had an Infinity Stone. Or if Nate James switched sides and suited up for the oldsters.

[ChillinDuke]

Instead of locking this thread, could we just nuke it? Is that an option available to the mods?

- Chillin

[dukelifer]

Instead of locking this thread, could we just nuke it? Is that an option available to the mods?

- Chillin

Put it on ice and only release with a dominating NC win.

[JasonEvans]

How would this team have done 5 years after leaving Duke?
Williams, Battier, Boozer, Dunleavy, Boozer, Duhon, James, Horvath, Sanders.

Obviously, there isn't the depth for a whole season, and the team would need to wrap Mr Williams in bubble wrap, but that team would have been competitive with some NBA teams for a few games (especially if the science fiction rules allow for picking up actual (and easily accessible) NBA players to round out the bench).

No fair! Two Boozers! Does one of them stay in Cleveland and the other become a free agent?

No, you do not get to "round out the bench" with legit NBA players. That is the crux of this argument. Of course the top few players on the roster (today, in 2001, and most years under K) are good enough to be high-end NBA players. That is what being at Duke is all about these days. The reason Duke Team 20xx+5 cannot compete is not because of the top 3 or 4 guys on the roster. It is because guys 5-12 are generally waaaaaay short of being anywhere close to NBA caliber. While Duke 20xx+5 might compete for part of the game, the moment we went to the bench (which you must do in a 48-minute NBA game) Duke gets the doors blown off.

That said, the 2001 bench comes sorta close to being NBA competitive. Horvath played on some NBA summer league teams and was a very good player in the NZ pro league, so while he is not a NBA quality player, he is probably not completely out of his league. Nate also played some NBA Summer League and Casey Sanders had a brief stint in the CBA before playing overseas for a while. Maybe they wouldn't have been totally outclassed.

Ahhh, who am I kidding? There is no backcourt depth at all on that team in terms of guys who could hope to compete at a NBA level.

-Jason "here's a thought exercise... would the 2001+5 team be allowed to include redshirt Dahntay Jones? Cause having that 6th legit NBA player makes a real difference" Evans

[UrinalCake]

So, what I’ve gathered from the internet over the past week is that Duke would beat the Cleveland Cavaliers but not the Virginia Cavaliers, and that we have four NBA starters who are not as good as anyone on the Fab 5. Makes perfect sense.

[Matches]

-Jason "here's a thought exercise... would the 2001+5 team be allowed to include redshirt Dahntay Jones? Cause having that 6th legit NBA player makes a real difference" Evans

Somehow it seems like cheating to include BOTH Jones (who of course didn't play a minute in 2001) AND J. Williams, who wasn't playing at all 5 years later. Feels like piecing together a team that never actually existed.

That 2001 team was mega-talented though. The 2004 team was pretty loaded too.

[johnb]

No fair! Two Boozers! Does one of them stay in Cleveland and the other become a free agent?

Wait a minute, we can't duplicate players on this team?

I was counting on some of our guys players subbing for themselves, being used for trades, and, most importantly, being able to play a couple of positions at the same time--which would be helpful not just in the concentration of talent but because they could then instantaneously communicate to their alter-self, so that when RJ1 pulls down a long defensive rebound, he'd also have an excellent idea where RJ2 and RJ3 are going to be on the fast break. Etc.

If we're going to get all persnickety about rules in the alternative universe, then I'm taking my 4-dimensional marbles and going home.