Note from Jason Evans:
The content of this thread originally started in the 2019 recruiting thread, which may make it seem out of left field at times. It was moved to a new thread as it ventures far afield from the purpose of the recruiting thread.
-Jason E.
He was PG and guarded the opponent’s best player every game whether he was a guard or a power forward. Which reminds me that Vitale said Jordan was among the 4 best college players of his broasting career which made me yell out loud (yol??). Ewing and Sampson were the others. I’m sure there are plenty of obvious choices over Jordan but Grant Hill, Shane Battier and Danny Ferry are no brainers. Bobby Hurley, JJ Redick, and Jason Williams are contenders and that’s just the Dukies. As much as I hate to admit it, Hansborough was a better college player than Jordan. I’m on team Jordan for NBA GOAT but not college.
Last edited by JasonEvans; 12-31-2018 at 11:51 AM.
Nolan, Scheyer were both effective PGs their senior year. Seth Curry was ineffective at PG his junior year which caused TT to play way more PG mpg than DBR could stand. Grayson Allen at PG was a mixed bag I guess. I feel like success was affected greatly by the team make up. Jon and Nolan led veteran teams that played good team defense and spread the floor well. Seth and GA tried to play lead guard while they were also the best shooter on the team which caused their offense to suffer. I think GA would have done well in 2010 and 2011. I’m less confident about Seth because he was a sub par defender and never showed great vision in college. Next year’s rotation is unknown but Grant, Nolan, Jon and Grayson were seniors. Frank Jackson was advertised as a freshman Combo Guard but that team relied on Matt and Grayson. Frank had a good year but did not contribute as a lead guard on a team that had a need. DT and Duval struggled as freshmen and they were supposed to be true PGs. I’ve never seen Moore play but I have reservations about his ability to be an effective PG as a freshman on a team that will likely rely on several other freshmen in the rotation. I think JGold will be ready for more PT next year but his lack of offense may not be a great fit on a team that doesn’t have any proven scorers. This feels like a year that we need a really strong PG in to have a great year.
I dunno, Reddevil. He was a very exciting player at UNC. I remember seeing Jordan play at the ACC's in the early '80s. If he had a breakaway, the ACC crowd would stand and start screaming as he reached mid-court, knowing how fast he was and how athletic the dunk was gonna be. The crowd didn't do that for anyone else.
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
I’m in 100% agreement, Sage. Of all the college basketball players I’ve ever seen, Jordan was the most electrifying. I didn’t see David Thompson play, only highlights. But Michael Jordan was must-see-tv like no one else. I was a huge fan of his, though not his school.
Thompson was a better college player than Jordan IMO, though his pro career was nothing like Jordan's. There were no dunks allowed while DT played in college, and yet, he and Monte Towe virtually created the alley oop. Part of the confusing Jordan college career is that his biggest moment came with the jumper against GTown in the finals...but Jordan was not top dog on that team. He was third fiddle after Worthy and Perkins that season. The next two years he clearly was the man for the Cheats...and they had early exits in both NCAA tournaments...one of which was won by NC State and Jimmy V.
This is in contrast to how Laettner and David Thompson finished their college careers. They were both the recognized stars on national championship teams. Jordan never was that (but he was that a ton in the pros of course). No one was a better NCAAT player than Laettner - (maybe Alcindor).
Thompsn’s NBA career would have been pretty amazing, but drugs really derailed it, sadly.
DT # 1 Christian #1a. They were the two best college basketball players these blue eyes saw. Jordan was a very good college player that went on to become what most NBA fans claim to be the best pro player. As MChambers posted, drugs derailed Thompson's pro career. I would have loved to have seen just how good he would have been. GoDuke!
Thompson was the best player in ACC history by a clear margin, IMO.
But he did not finish his college career on top. Great individual season, to be sure. National POY. But Maryland finished first in the 1975 ACC regular season, while UNC defeated State in the ACCT title game. Bothered by leg cramps, DT ended his college career with a 14-point performance in a loss.
Not much different that Jordan v. Indiana.
Only two teams per conference went to the NCAAS in those days. UNC got the automatic bid, Maryland the at-large.
State was invited to the NIT right after the UNC loss and the seniors-Thompson, Towe, Tim Stoddard, Mo Rivers, Mark Moeller--told Norm Sloan they weren't interested.
So, Sloan turned down the bid.
The seniors reconsidered and went to Sloan the next day and told him they wanted to play. Sloan told them it didn't work that way; the slot had been filled by someone else.
NCAAs? Alcindor/Jabbar not only never lost in the NCAAs, he never came close to losing. A handful of players had better pro careers. But as a college player, he was unrivaled. Again, IMO.
Jim, how would you rate the careers of Alcindor vs Bill Walton ? I value your opinion very highly. Thanks in advance
In addition to his resume, the Kentucky game puts Laettner at the top IMO. No other player did THAT when the stakes were so high. I mean, he played nearly a perfect game (10/10 fg, 10/10 ft) AND hit the winning shot that defines the drama of the tournament nearly three decades later.
Laettner and college basketball are inextricably linked, more than any other college player in history, and they will remain so for many decades to come (as long as those who watched him are still alive at least).
Last edited by Philadukie; 12-28-2018 at 10:40 PM.
Laettner hit TWO buzzer-beaters to put us in the Final Four. Not just go-ahead shots... legit buzzer-beaters.
It's almost incomprehensible.
What are the odds that a team would even be in such a position two times in three years?
The Kentucky game dwarfs that UConn game for obvious reasons but it is staggering that the guy did it twice.
And, of course, the game-clinching free throws against UNLV.
I would rank Alcindor higher than anyone, Walton included.
Alcindor was just unstoppable. Huge, athletic, skilled, intelligent, competitive. The perfect basketball player.
I think back to the 1968 NCAAT, his junior year. Hampered by a scratched cornea, Alcindor had been outplayed by Elvin Hayes in the Astrodome. Houston upset UCLA 71-69 in the first big, made-for-TV college basketball game.
Houston ended the regular season undefeated, ranked No. 1 in the polls. Hayes won the national POY awards over Alcindor.
They met in the Final Four. UCLA won 101-69. Think about that. The undefeated number one team in the country lost by 32 points.
Alcindor had 19 points and 18 rebounds. But more importantly, he smothered Hayes, who shot 3-for-10 and scored 10 points.
Hayes averaged 36.8 ppg that year.
UCLA met UNC in the title game, the only time Wooden and Smith coached against each other. This Carolina team started both Larry Miller and Charlie Scott, augmented by Rusty Clark, Bill Bunting and Dick Grubar. A darn good team.
Smith was so afraid of UCLA that he had Carolina hold the ball for the first half. Little good it did. UCLA won 78-55,
Alcindor had 34 points and 16 rebounds.
UCLA beat the number one and number four teams in the AP poll by a combined 55 points!!
I know, I know. UCLA had great talent, you say. Their 1968 starting lineup was Alcindor, Mike Lynn, Mike Warren, Lucius Allen and Lynn Shackelford. Allen was a very good college guard. But this was not a Who's Who. The big guy just lifted them into becoming a great team.
UCLA won its four NCAAT games in 1967 by margins of 49, 16, 15 and 15 points. In 1968 by 9, 21, 32 and 23 points. In 1969 by 15, 38, 3 and 20 points. An 85-82 win over Drake was the only time UCLA was seriously stressed in that three-year run. Alcindor had 25 points and 21 rebounds against Drake, blocking shots on three consecutive possessions down the stretch.
Walton only lost once in the NCAAs but that was one more time than Alcindor lost. And Walton may well have had more talent surrounding him, Henry Bibby, Keith Wilkes, Dave Myers, Larry Farmer.
Walton would certainly be in the discussion for number two, as would be Thompson, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Jerry Lucas, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Hayes, Laettner maybe at the end of the top 10, and others. If we just consider regular season, then Ralph Sampson would be on the short list. But his relative lack of NCAAT success knocks him down a bunch of notches.
Just my two cents.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Bias had a full skill set and was playing at an NBA level in college when that was rare. He had less talent around him than Jordan, which may have facilitated his dominance. He has to be in any conversation of top 5 players of the era.