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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    Just received an email from Duke saying that the South Carolina game has been officially cancelled. No mutually open date for both teams was able to work.

    Anyone with season tickets can exchange them for tickets for an upcoming game. I don’t know the status of individual tickets purchased for the game.
    This is a shame, as a win over SC would have been extremely helpful.

  2. #342
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    If you only follow teams when they're in the top 5, that might explain why you're not interested now.

    That said, I don't believe DWBB was ever in the top 5 during the '90s.
    I started following Duke WBB under Debbie Leonard. McCallie-coached teams are very, very tough to watch.

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    stuck in NJ lol
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    A million at Duke is way more "respectful" than a million 2 or whatever it was at Texas...when you consider the percentage of the budget that a million at Duke is versus Texas at 1.2 or 1.25 et...
    I thought the issue was the offer came very late! The idiot AD we had back should never have let her contract come to the end. It should have been renewed a year or two sooner. Specially with how well our program was performing under her back then!

  4. #344

    Absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Gail wanted to continue to mine her AAU contacts for recruiting and took too long to learn that she needed to spend more time cultivating her Texas high-school connections.

    A much different recruiting culture than what she was used to at Duke.

    That was around the time Texas schools like Baylor and Texas A&M started winning national championships.

    Not unconnected.
    High school coaches in Texas have a lot more power than in most other places, and many times the recruiting goes through them. As a result, it is very hard to recruit in basketball and football unless you have plenty of contacts all around the state, and especially in the eastern half in the Dallas-San Antonio-Houston triangle. Jody Conradt not only played at Baylor, but she was a head coach for almost forty years between Sam Houston State, UT Arlington, and UT Austin, so she knew everybody. Same goes for Darrel Royal and Mack Brown in football.

    The surprising thing is that UT somehow didn't make her understand that she needed assistants from the state of Texas to assist with recruiting, but that's the way it goes.

    IIRC, Oklahoma made the Final Four a couple of times while Coach G was at Texas, so she really fell behind her conference rivals.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Because they went to the NCAA finals. Were they in the top 5 at any time before the post-tourney poll?
    Uh, in G's last season, DWB went undefeated until the ACC tournament and was considered the best team in the country (Ranked #1), before a major upset loss to Rutgers in the tourney.

    In G's last few seasons, Duke was easily in the top 5 on regular occasions.
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    Uh, in G's last season, DWB went undefeated until the ACC tournament and was considered the best team in the country (Ranked #1), before a major upset loss to Rutgers in the tourney.

    In G's last few seasons, Duke was easily in the top 5 on regular occasions.
    Uh, were any of those season in the 90s?

  7. #347
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    stuck in NJ lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Uh, were any of those season in the 90s?
    In '97-98 the team to the Elite 8.
    In '98-99 the team was the runner up.

    Also she didn't start at Duke till '92 and had to build up the program in the early years.
    She took over for Debbie Leonard who had be the Duke HC for 15 years. In that time she only had 8 winning season but in the ACC conference was above 500 just once in those 15 year and never hired then 3rd place.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by ehdg View Post
    In '97-98 the team to the Elite 8.
    In '98-99 the team was the runner up.

    Also she didn't start at Duke till '92 and had to build up the program in the early years.
    She took over for Debbie Leonard who had be the Duke HC for 15 years. In that time she only had 8 winning season but in the ACC conference was above 500 just once in those 15 year and never hired then 3rd place.
    You guys, someone said he or she didn't start following Duke until we were a top five team in the 90s. I said I didn't think Duke was ever a top 5 team in the 90s (which apparently was wrong; the team was in the top 5 briefly during the 98-99 season). I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments in the 2000s (i.e., not the 90s); I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments from the 90s (unless the accomplishment was being in the top 5, which cc1974 mentioned, like, 23 hours ago). You are butting in to a very specific conversation that was done yesterday.

  9. #349
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    stuck in NJ lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    You guys, someone said he or she didn't start following Duke until we were a top five team in the 90s. I said I didn't think Duke was ever a top 5 team in the 90s (which apparently was wrong; the team was in the top 5 briefly during the 98-99 season). I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments in the 2000s (i.e., not the 90s); I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments from the 90s (unless the accomplishment was being in the top 5, which cc1974 mentioned, like, 23 hours ago). You are butting in to a very specific conversation that was done yesterday.
    Fair enough sorry I just felt like you weren't appreciating how good Coach G was and what she did to build up our program. Coach G averaged at least 30 wins in her last 7 years at Duke. Where as Coach P has only won 30 or more games 3 times in her 10 years and not since 6th year.

  10. #350
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    It is impossible for the season to go by without at least a couple G Vs P discussions. One thing aside from the declines of wins, the declines of rankings, and the decline of recruits is the decline of marquee games.

    The atmosphere in Cameron during regular season games vs (other) big time programs like Tennessee and UCONN was electric. We are lucky that we have teams such as Louisville and ND in the ACC, because opportunities to play top teams is getting to more and more infrequent.
    I remember ordering tickets for a UCONN game on stubhub, and they were not tons left. Also remember taking my mom to a UNC game in Cameron and it was literally packed to the rafters. It rivaled an ACC men's game. (Duke won on senior night in a very close game, it was perfect.)

    With Coach P at the helm, we will never see those days again. I was a supporter for years, but I'm ready to move on and to see Cameron packed once more.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by ehdg View Post
    Fair enough sorry I just felt like you weren't appreciating how good Coach G was and what she did to build up our program. Coach G averaged at least 30 wins in her last 7 years at Duke. Where as Coach P has only won 30 or more games 3 times in her 10 years and not since 6th year.
    I totally appreciated Coach G and her accomplishments while she was at Duke. I was a huge fan of her and her teams. I was a little bit devastated when she left the program. The difference between me and most of the people who post on DWBB threads on DBR is I also appreciate Coach P's accomplishments while she's been at Duke. In my mind, the fact that she hasn't done as well as Coach G doesn't disqualify her from existence.

    Last night, while the men's team was playing Notre Dame, I was thinking about Mike Brey. This guy has been at ND for 19 years, has been to the Elite Eight twice, won 30 games once, went to the NIT last season and is 1-7 in the ACC this season. Yet, to my knowledge he's revered at Notre Dame and is considered a really good coach by many Duke fans. Coach P is way more accomplished than that, and people around here act as if she's Ted Roof. (Actually, I think people were nicer to Ted Roof.)

    The whole bit with the alleged mistreatment of players bothered me (though I accepted that the AD investigated and cleared her and I believe she's done better since). The fact that she apparently drove Azura, Alexis, and a couple other good players to leave the program bothered me, a lot. And I am concerned about the current downturn in her recruiting. But she had a great six year run (out of her 12 years) that if not for injuries probably would have led to multiple Final Fours. I'm a Duke fan. And I'm sorry but I don't think "McCallie-coached teams are very, very tough to watch" --I've enjoyed watching the women's team play for the past 12 years. I continue to root for the team (as opposed to many around here who seem to hope the team loses so they can trash the coach), I think while this year's team has lost a lot of games the team still looks pretty well-coached to me, and I honestly believe next season is going to be a good one (seeing what players we were scheduled to lose after the 2018 season, I've been nervous about the prospects for the 2018-19 season for a couple years now, but I think 2019-20 will be much better).

    And I don't understand the vitriol around here. Never have.

  12. #352
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    stuck in NJ lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I totally appreciated Coach G and her accomplishments while she was at Duke. I was a huge fan of her and her teams. I was a little bit devastated when she left the program. The difference between me and most of the people who post on DWBB threads on DBR is I also appreciate Coach P's accomplishments while she's been at Duke. In my mind, the fact that she hasn't done as well as Coach G doesn't disqualify her from existence.

    Last night, while the men's team was playing Notre Dame, I was thinking about Mike Brey. This guy has been at ND for 19 years, has been to the Elite Eight twice, won 30 games once, went to the NIT last season and is 1-7 in the ACC this season. Yet, to my knowledge he's revered at Notre Dame and is considered a really good coach by many Duke fans. Coach P is way more accomplished than that, and people around here act as if she's Ted Roof. (Actually, I think people were nicer to Ted Roof.)

    The whole bit with the alleged mistreatment of players bothered me (though I accepted that the AD investigated and cleared her and I believe she's done better since). The fact that she apparently drove Azura, Alexis, and a couple other good players to leave the program bothered me, a lot. And I am concerned about the current downturn in her recruiting. But she had a great six year run (out of her 12 years) that if not for injuries probably would have led to multiple Final Fours. I'm a Duke fan. And I'm sorry but I don't think "McCallie-coached teams are very, very tough to watch" --I've enjoyed watching the women's team play for the past 12 years. I continue to root for the team (as opposed to many around here who seem to hope the team loses so they can trash the coach), I think while this year's team has lost a lot of games the team still looks pretty well-coached to me, and I honestly believe next season is going to be a good one (seeing what players we were scheduled to lose after the 2018 season, I've been nervous about the prospects for the 2018-19 season for a couple years now, but I think 2019-20 will be much better).

    And I don't understand the vitriol around here. Never have.
    I agree with you about the recruiting for some reason has fallen off under and not sure why. Plus her last 5 years haven't been as good as the first 6 years for her where. She had a 4 year stretch there where she made the Elite 8 those 4 years in a row and finished 1st in the ACC. She hasn't done either of those for 5 years now. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from her when having Coach G did. Though it does bother me that Coach G sadly was never able to win it all for us. She took our program to the Final Four 4 times and twice was runner up.

  13. #353
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ehdg View Post
    I agree with you about the recruiting for some reason has fallen off under and not sure why. .
    DWBB recruiting has yet to fully recover from the HR investigation of a few years back. Lots of bad vibes from that one. Lots.

  14. #354
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    stuck in NJ lol
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    DWBB recruiting has yet to fully recover from the HR investigation of a few years back. Lots of bad vibes from that one. Lots.
    Jim in your opinion do you think recruiting would have done better if after the investigation they had let Coach P go and brought in a new HC?

  15. #355
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ehdg View Post
    Jim in your opinion do you think recruiting would have done better if after the investigation they had let Coach P go and brought in a new HC?
    Without knowing the identity of the hypothetical, new coach, this seems unanswerable.

  16. #356
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area

    Slow Decline

    I think the recruiting problem is directly linked to the winning problem. Huge differences of opinion in Coach P's performance, I understand. The reality however is that during her tenure the "feel" of the program has, almost since the beginning, seemed to be a downturn and for the past few seasons is a slow inexorable march toward the bottom of the ACC. Just two to go to get there this season.

    I believe it is entirely about the lack of focus on offensive coaching. I'm not sure why that is, but I believe that is what folks mean when they say the team is hard to watch. The Duke teams just seem to always play offense at a level below their talent, while conversely, at times, they've played defense incredibly. My perception in any case. Winning and losing in sports tend to be complimentary waves to recruiting. The drift to the bottom is hard to arrest because losing becomes associated, fairly or not, with the head coach. The injury bug is an unfair reality, and it can have a huge impact on a team's, a coach's, success.

    But to take over a top five program and start the next season 5-3... Even though they finished really well, perception started to form. Her first year, there were significant rumors of turmoil on the team, of ego clashes--the coach not getting along with the stars on the team. (an aside, I found it odd that people were surprised that an investigation eventually was ordered over player mistreatment, when those rumors started the year she took the helm).

    Then the drop from a top five program to top ten...a slight drop in talent...Now the program is not a top 25 program is it? The talent isn't coming at the same level as even three years ago. The offense seems to get worse and worse, and has never been the focus.

    The drop off in talent is easy to explain. It has been building for a long time.

    Players are still playing hard so there's that.

  17. #357
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC area
    I feel really, really sorry for K's successor...

    -jk

  18. #358
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I feel really, really sorry for K's successor...

    -jk
    an Immense amount of pressure to be sure. sink or swim.

  19. #359
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by Kfanarmy View Post
    I believe it is entirely about the lack of focus on offensive coaching. I'm not sure why that is, but I believe that is what folks mean when they say the team is hard to watch. The Duke teams just seem to always play offense at a level below their talent...
    That is exactly what I meant, thanks.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    DWBB recruiting has yet to fully recover from the HR investigation of a few years back. Lots of bad vibes from that one. Lots.
    To be fair, part of the "bad vibes" stems from the fact that one of the two best players of the Coach P era (and a player whose jersey was later retired) — Elizabeth Williams — was the player who wrote complained about the negative atmosphere around the program in a letter to the administration (which led to the investigation).

    The fact that the player who was an All-American — both on the court and in the classroom — submitted the complaint has to have left a negative impression on the recruiting trail.

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