High school coaches in Texas have a lot more power than in most other places, and many times the recruiting goes through them. As a result, it is very hard to recruit in basketball and football unless you have plenty of contacts all around the state, and especially in the eastern half in the Dallas-San Antonio-Houston triangle. Jody Conradt not only played at Baylor, but she was a head coach for almost forty years between Sam Houston State, UT Arlington, and UT Austin, so she knew everybody. Same goes for Darrel Royal and Mack Brown in football.
The surprising thing is that UT somehow didn't make her understand that she needed assistants from the state of Texas to assist with recruiting, but that's the way it goes.
IIRC, Oklahoma made the Final Four a couple of times while Coach G was at Texas, so she really fell behind her conference rivals.
<devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink
Carolina Delenda Est
In '97-98 the team to the Elite 8.
In '98-99 the team was the runner up.
Also she didn't start at Duke till '92 and had to build up the program in the early years.
She took over for Debbie Leonard who had be the Duke HC for 15 years. In that time she only had 8 winning season but in the ACC conference was above 500 just once in those 15 year and never hired then 3rd place.
You guys, someone said he or she didn't start following Duke until we were a top five team in the 90s. I said I didn't think Duke was ever a top 5 team in the 90s (which apparently was wrong; the team was in the top 5 briefly during the 98-99 season). I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments in the 2000s (i.e., not the 90s); I don't need to be quoted Coach G accomplishments from the 90s (unless the accomplishment was being in the top 5, which cc1974 mentioned, like, 23 hours ago). You are butting in to a very specific conversation that was done yesterday.
Fair enough sorry I just felt like you weren't appreciating how good Coach G was and what she did to build up our program. Coach G averaged at least 30 wins in her last 7 years at Duke. Where as Coach P has only won 30 or more games 3 times in her 10 years and not since 6th year.
It is impossible for the season to go by without at least a couple G Vs P discussions. One thing aside from the declines of wins, the declines of rankings, and the decline of recruits is the decline of marquee games.
The atmosphere in Cameron during regular season games vs (other) big time programs like Tennessee and UCONN was electric. We are lucky that we have teams such as Louisville and ND in the ACC, because opportunities to play top teams is getting to more and more infrequent.
I remember ordering tickets for a UCONN game on stubhub, and they were not tons left. Also remember taking my mom to a UNC game in Cameron and it was literally packed to the rafters. It rivaled an ACC men's game. (Duke won on senior night in a very close game, it was perfect.)
With Coach P at the helm, we will never see those days again. I was a supporter for years, but I'm ready to move on and to see Cameron packed once more.
Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."
I totally appreciated Coach G and her accomplishments while she was at Duke. I was a huge fan of her and her teams. I was a little bit devastated when she left the program. The difference between me and most of the people who post on DWBB threads on DBR is I also appreciate Coach P's accomplishments while she's been at Duke. In my mind, the fact that she hasn't done as well as Coach G doesn't disqualify her from existence.
Last night, while the men's team was playing Notre Dame, I was thinking about Mike Brey. This guy has been at ND for 19 years, has been to the Elite Eight twice, won 30 games once, went to the NIT last season and is 1-7 in the ACC this season. Yet, to my knowledge he's revered at Notre Dame and is considered a really good coach by many Duke fans. Coach P is way more accomplished than that, and people around here act as if she's Ted Roof. (Actually, I think people were nicer to Ted Roof.)
The whole bit with the alleged mistreatment of players bothered me (though I accepted that the AD investigated and cleared her and I believe she's done better since). The fact that she apparently drove Azura, Alexis, and a couple other good players to leave the program bothered me, a lot. And I am concerned about the current downturn in her recruiting. But she had a great six year run (out of her 12 years) that if not for injuries probably would have led to multiple Final Fours. I'm a Duke fan. And I'm sorry but I don't think "McCallie-coached teams are very, very tough to watch" --I've enjoyed watching the women's team play for the past 12 years. I continue to root for the team (as opposed to many around here who seem to hope the team loses so they can trash the coach), I think while this year's team has lost a lot of games the team still looks pretty well-coached to me, and I honestly believe next season is going to be a good one (seeing what players we were scheduled to lose after the 2018 season, I've been nervous about the prospects for the 2018-19 season for a couple years now, but I think 2019-20 will be much better).
And I don't understand the vitriol around here. Never have.
I agree with you about the recruiting for some reason has fallen off under and not sure why. Plus her last 5 years haven't been as good as the first 6 years for her where. She had a 4 year stretch there where she made the Elite 8 those 4 years in a row and finished 1st in the ACC. She hasn't done either of those for 5 years now. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from her when having Coach G did. Though it does bother me that Coach G sadly was never able to win it all for us. She took our program to the Final Four 4 times and twice was runner up.
I think the recruiting problem is directly linked to the winning problem. Huge differences of opinion in Coach P's performance, I understand. The reality however is that during her tenure the "feel" of the program has, almost since the beginning, seemed to be a downturn and for the past few seasons is a slow inexorable march toward the bottom of the ACC. Just two to go to get there this season.
I believe it is entirely about the lack of focus on offensive coaching. I'm not sure why that is, but I believe that is what folks mean when they say the team is hard to watch. The Duke teams just seem to always play offense at a level below their talent, while conversely, at times, they've played defense incredibly. My perception in any case. Winning and losing in sports tend to be complimentary waves to recruiting. The drift to the bottom is hard to arrest because losing becomes associated, fairly or not, with the head coach. The injury bug is an unfair reality, and it can have a huge impact on a team's, a coach's, success.
But to take over a top five program and start the next season 5-3... Even though they finished really well, perception started to form. Her first year, there were significant rumors of turmoil on the team, of ego clashes--the coach not getting along with the stars on the team. (an aside, I found it odd that people were surprised that an investigation eventually was ordered over player mistreatment, when those rumors started the year she took the helm).
Then the drop from a top five program to top ten...a slight drop in talent...Now the program is not a top 25 program is it? The talent isn't coming at the same level as even three years ago. The offense seems to get worse and worse, and has never been the focus.
The drop off in talent is easy to explain. It has been building for a long time.
Players are still playing hard so there's that.
I feel really, really sorry for K's successor...
-jk
To be fair, part of the "bad vibes" stems from the fact that one of the two best players of the Coach P era (and a player whose jersey was later retired) Elizabeth Williams was the player who wrote complained about the negative atmosphere around the program in a letter to the administration (which led to the investigation).
The fact that the player who was an All-American both on the court and in the classroom submitted the complaint has to have left a negative impression on the recruiting trail.