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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    We were in the game until the strange (to me, anyway) unsportsmanlike call against Odom. Sure, she was pushing the player, but how would that be interpreted differently than the following foul we made to send Miami to the line? Both were "unintentional" intentional fouls (I guess Odom was trying to foul, but even that isn't for sure). Neither involved a risk for injury to the opponent. Then again, the refs in the women's game are hard to figure.

    Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    We were in the game until the strange (to me, anyway) unsportsmanlike call against Odom. Sure, she was pushing the player, but how would that be interpreted differently than the following foul we made to send Miami to the line? Both were "unintentional" intentional fouls (I guess Odom was trying to foul, but even that isn't for sure). Neither involved a risk for injury to the opponent. Then again, the refs in the women's game are hard to figure.

    Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?
    "intentional foul" isn't a think anymore. It's "flagrant." I didn't see the play...if she actually shoved someone, that could absolutely be excessive contact and justification for a flagrant.

    Either way, duke was down 4 before the foul and didn't score the rest of the way anyway, so I think it was moot.
    1200. DDMF.

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    There's no question this season is on life support.

    If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

    Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

    Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

    BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    There's no question this season is on life support.

    If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

    Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

    Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

    BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.
    As almost (we disagreed about Azura) always, I bow to your knowledge (not being a smart-___), and would like to know how you got to four. I count two and a half (one doesn't play half the time).

    I haven't posted much because I'm really disappointed in this team and try not to be negative. Not much good to say except with Boykin and Goodchild (and Lambert) we will be strong in the backcourt the next few years...if they can stay healthy. Big if.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    As almost (we disagreed about Azura) always, I bow to your knowledge (not being a smart-___), and would like to know how you got to four. I count two and a half (one doesn't play half the time).

    I haven't posted much because I'm really disappointed in this team and try not to be negative. Not much good to say except with Boykin and Goodchild (and Lambert) we will be strong in the backcourt the next few years...if they can stay healthy. Big if.
    Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.
    I guess we disagree about Williams. She's the most disappointing high recruit we've ever had. McDAA, ranked 13, 13, 15, and 21 by the four recruiting services. The women's talent isn't as deep as the men's so she should be dominant with those ratings. She's not a freshman anymore and Lexie and Becca are gone. At 6-5 on this team she should be a stat machine. She's averaging 7 points (on lousy shooting percentages, FG and FT), and her rebound per minute rate is worse than most of the guards on the team. 1 to 3.5 assist to turnover rate. For pete's sake, she's 6-5 and averaging less than a block a game.

    As I wrote earlier about not posting much, I guess this has been building up. But she's not alone, IMO only Goodchild and Boykin are earning pluses this year. I don't know if it's effort, coaching, or really just not being talented enough to play ACC basketball.

    Everyone says this was a re-build year. Yeah, but not this bad. And I'm not sure next year looks great with this crew.

    So disappointed.

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    There's no question this season is on life support.

    If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

    Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

    Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

    BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.

    Coach P has always reflected an, almost solely, defense-first mindset. As I recall very early after she was hired, she said something to the effect that the teams spent little time on offense in practice, because defense wins championships. I wish I could find that. In any case, it shouldn't be surprising that with equal talent, the team that is almost solely focused on defense is going to have a hard time scoring when things become frenetic. Defense wins championships, but you still have to outscore the opponent to win everywhere but the golf course!

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I guess we disagree about Williams. She's the most disappointing high recruit we've ever had. McDAA, ranked 13, 13, 15, and 21 by the four recruiting services. The women's talent isn't as deep as the men's so she should be dominant with those ratings. She's not a freshman anymore and Lexie and Becca are gone. At 6-5 on this team she should be a stat machine. She's averaging 7 points (on lousy shooting percentages, FG and FT), and her rebound per minute rate is worse than most of the guards on the team. 1 to 3.5 assist to turnover rate. For pete's sake, she's 6-5 and averaging less than a block a game.

    As I wrote earlier about not posting much, I guess this has been building up. But she's not alone, IMO only Goodchild and Boykin are earning pluses this year. I don't know if it's effort, coaching, or really just not being talented enough to play ACC basketball.

    Everyone says this was a re-build year. Yeah, but not this bad. And I'm not sure next year looks great with this crew.

    So disappointed.
    I think it says it all that the debate we're having in this thread is between whether we have 2.5 or 4 ACC caliber players. It's an indictment on the program really. No one is saying P should be recruiting only 5 star WNBA talent - although she's certainly recruited plenty of that to not the greatest results - but she needs to be recruiting players she can mold INTO ACC quality players. And this season is going to be our 2nd Tournament miss in four years, after 21 consecutive NCAA Tournaments (to say nothing of excelling IN the tournament).

    Is the Athletic Department really okay with this being the new state of the WBB program? Because it certainly shows no sign of returning to its heights any time soon.
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?
    The foul is badly named, but the call was clearly correct under the rules. Section 13.1.c. of the NCAA women's rules specifies an unsportsmanlike foul for:

    "Contact away from the ball against an opponent who is clearly not involved in the play, designed to stop the game clock or prevent it from starting;"

    To me that pretty clearly describes Neah's pushing of an opponent away from the action on an inbound play. I personally wouldn't term that "unsportsmanlike", but the rules clearly designate it that way, and a player who commits two such fouls is disqualified. The penalty is two shots plus the ball.

    That call was dead on correct.

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.
    I'm going to land midway between you and dudog84, and say that, while IMO Williams has the potential to be an ACC-level starter at some point, she has not currently achieved at that level and would not currently start on too many teams in this league, IMO. She certainly wouldn't have started over either of the two bigs we played last night.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Duke winning at FSU early 11-6.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    15-14 after one. Too many turnovers.

  13. #233
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    FSU amped up the intensity and is running us out of the building. 41-28 at the half.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  14. #234
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    10 TOs in the half, and we are getting clobbered on the boards, 19-10, including eight on the offensive end for the bad guys versus just one for us.

  15. #235
    Boykin out for the season with ACL tear to non-surgical knee.

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by grossbus View Post
    Boykin out for the season with ACL tear to non-surgical knee.
    Hey Gross - there is actually a thread on this sad news.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  17. #237
    Williams good if unguarded.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Hey Gross - there is actually a thread on this sad news.
    Missed it. Sorry.

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Cut the lead to 6.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Much better on the boards in the third, plus some nice assists. Still a pretty big hole, but we're withing shouting distance with all the FSU missed FTs.

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