Duke Dunk Report - 2019

[arnie]

Iirc, not all alley-oops have been mis-categorized, just some. I doubt it is an automated coding error unless there is inconsistency in the input.

At any rate, it would be nice if the sports info office noticed and sussed it out.

It’s probably just a millennial disease 😎. Hoping to get a 70 grade and coast on in.

[BandAlum83]

It’s probably just a millennial disease ��. Hoping to get a 70 grade and coast on in.

Has anyone tried to contact the office of the SID? I mean, I'll try, but I have no contacts over there and don't know anything about how that department works.

[Kedsy]

Happily, the GoDuke count matched the NCAA count (perhaps because we didn't have any alley-oop dunks today, or perhaps not), and that count was 6: Jack White led the team (first time ever for that) with 2, and Javin, AOC, RJ, and Zion had 1 each.

So far, for the season, in ten games:

Zion 26 or 21 (probably really 25);
RJ 17 or 13 (probably 16);
Marques 14 or 12 (probably 14);
Javin 9 or 7 (probably 9);
Jack 4;
Cam 2;
Justin 2;
AOC 1.

TOTAL: 75 (NCAA) or 62 (Duke) [but the real number is probably 73].

FWIW, last year's team had 64 dunks after ten games. At this point last season, Marvin had 26 and Wendell had 15. Third place was a tie between Trevon and Javin, both with 7. So using the "probably really" numbers, (a) Zion is one behind Marvin; (b) Zion + RJ are tied with Marvin + Wendell, 41 to 41; (c) Zion, RJ, and Marques are ahead of Marvin, Wendell, and Trevon, 55 to 48; and (d) Zion, RJ, Marques, and Javin are ahead of Marvin, Wendell, Trevon, and Javin, 64 to 55.

[Bluedog]

Happily, the GoDuke count matched the NCAA count (perhaps because we didn't have any alley-oop dunks today, or perhaps not), and that count was 6: Jack White led the team (first time ever for that) with 2, and Javin, AOC, RJ, and Zion had 1 each.

So far, for the season, in ten games:

Zion 26 or 21 (probably really 25);
RJ 17 or 13 (probably 16);
Marques 14 or 12 (probably 14);
Javin 9 or 7 (probably 9);
Jack 4;
Cam 2;
Justin 2;
AOC 1.

TOTAL: 75 (NCAA) or 62 (Duke) [but the real number is probably 73].

FWIW, last year's team had 64 dunks after ten games. At this point last season, Marvin had 26 and Wendell had 15. Third place was a tie between Trevon and Javin, both with 7. So using the "probably really" numbers, (a) Zion is one behind Marvin; (b) Zion + RJ are tied with Marvin + Wendell, 41 to 41; (c) Zion, RJ, and Marques are ahead of Marvin, Wendell, and Trevon, 55 to 48; and (d) Zion, RJ, Marques, and Javin are ahead of Marvin, Wendell, Trevon, and Javin, 64 to 55.

Are last year's comparison numbers you're referring from the NCAA or Duke box scores? I assume the Duke box scores also had the same issues last year? Thanks for tracking!

[Kedsy]

Are last year's comparison numbers you're referring from the NCAA or Duke box scores? I assume the Duke box scores also had the same issues last year? Thanks for tracking!

Last year's numbers were from the GoDuke box score, but we didn't have this problem (or not nearly to the same extent, at any rate). The "official" record book is different by just 3 dunks from last year's thread's numbers. Three discrepancies in the whole season is far different from an average of 1.3 discrepancies per game.

If you want detail, my thread last season said 232 dunks and the Duke media guide says 235 (which is the exact number you see bandied about when they talk about the Duke dunk record). I gave Marvin credit for 96 vs. 98 in the Duke media guide, and I gave Wendell credit for 57 and the Duke media guide said 58. Everything else in the thread matched the media guide.

Something else I just noticed, Marvin Bagley had 98 dunks last season and Duke's opponents only totaled 94.

[GGLC]

Could have sworn that RJ had two dunks, but I guess I'm wrong.

[Kedsy]

Could have sworn that RJ had two dunks, but I guess I'm wrong.

RJ had a breakaway that he looked like he was going to dunk but instead he dropped it in from about an inch away from the rim. When I saw it, I wondered whether he'd get credit for a dunk or not, but neither GoDuke nor NCAA.com ended up giving it to him so I guess not. Maybe that was what you were thinking of?

[GGLC]

That could be, yeah!

[jjasper0729]

I wanted to give this thread a quick reply and let everyone know why there may be a discrepancy with the play by play vs. the box scores. The NCAA has mandated that all schools use a new statistics program starting for the 2019-2020 season. NEXT season, everyone will have to use the new software. THIS season, 2018-2019 it is optional and Duke has opted in. This is the first season we are using the software program after using the same program for the last 15 years.

The benefit of this is that we can help the developers get any kinks worked out before it has to be used universally next season, but the downside is there may be some kinks. When inputting the plays, there is an option for dunk and also an option for alley oop. It had been presumed that an alley oop would show up as "Alley-Oop" in the play by play and not as a jumper. As the official scorer for Duke (and have been for the last 20 years and 24 out of the last 27) I've sent a request to the software company to look into adding an alley-oop dunk option as well as relabeling the current alley-oop option as a layup in the play by play.

I just hope this helps to clarify some things so that everyone understands what is going on rather than disparaging people for being incompetent, that give a lot of time for every home game because of their love of Duke

Thanks

[Kedsy]

I wanted to give this thread a quick reply and let everyone know why there may be a discrepancy with the play by play vs. the box scores. The NCAA has mandated that all schools use a new statistics program starting for the 2019-2020 season. NEXT season, everyone will have to use the new software. THIS season, 2018-2019 it is optional and Duke has opted in. This is the first season we are using the software program after using the same program for the last 15 years.

The benefit of this is that we can help the developers get any kinks worked out before it has to be used universally next season, but the downside is there may be some kinks. When inputting the plays, there is an option for dunk and also an option for alley oop. It had been presumed that an alley oop would show up as "Alley-Oop" in the play by play and not as a jumper. As the official scorer for Duke (and have been for the last 20 years and 24 out of the last 27) I've sent a request to the software company to look into adding an alley-oop dunk option as well as relabeling the current alley-oop option as a layup in the play by play.

I just hope this helps to clarify some things so that everyone understands what is going on rather than disparaging people for being incompetent, that give a lot of time for every home game because of their love of Duke

Thanks

Thank you so much for your response. This is exactly what I hypothesized might be the problem. If we want an accurate source on dunks, should we use the NCAA.com site or is there somewhere else where that data is being kept?

Thanks again.

[uh_no]

I wanted to give this thread a quick reply and let everyone know why there may be a discrepancy with the play by play vs. the box scores. The NCAA has mandated that all schools use a new statistics program starting for the 2019-2020 season. NEXT season, everyone will have to use the new software. THIS season, 2018-2019 it is optional and Duke has opted in. This is the first season we are using the software program after using the same program for the last 15 years.

The benefit of this is that we can help the developers get any kinks worked out before it has to be used universally next season, but the downside is there may be some kinks. When inputting the plays, there is an option for dunk and also an option for alley oop. It had been presumed that an alley oop would show up as "Alley-Oop" in the play by play and not as a jumper. As the official scorer for Duke (and have been for the last 20 years and 24 out of the last 27) I've sent a request to the software company to look into adding an alley-oop dunk option as well as relabeling the current alley-oop option as a layup in the play by play.

I just hope this helps to clarify some things so that everyone understands what is going on rather than disparaging people for being incompetent, that give a lot of time for every home game because of their love of Duke

Thanks

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your explaining the situation. That said, the primary purpose of record keeping is to keep accurate records, and Duke has significantly missed that directive in this stat category. When you sign up as a beta tester for some piece of software, you accept that there might be some growing pains. In this case, the growing pain seems to be improper reporting of alley-oops as jumpers rather than dunks. That being the case, if Duke needs to manually edit the box to meet the goal of accurate records, then that's what they ought to be doing, not simply chalking it simply chalking it up to a software issue.

I write software. I deal with beta customers. I know sometimes things can be rough. Duke needs to ensure it's record keeping is accurate. Right now, it is not. So while I agree that people shouldn't be called incompetent, I also don't believe this is an acceptable situation and hope Duke corrects this moving forward, with or without a fix to the underlying software.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your explaining the situation. That said, the primary purpose of record keeping is to keep accurate records, and Duke has significantly missed that directive in this stat category. When you sign up as a beta tester for some piece of software, you accept that there might be some growing pains. In this case, the growing pain seems to be improper reporting of alley-oops as jumpers rather than dunks. That being the case, if Duke needs to manually edit the box to meet the goal of accurate records, then that's what they ought to be doing, not simply chalking it simply chalking it up to a software issue.

I write software. I deal with beta customers. I know sometimes things can be rough. Duke needs to ensure it's record keeping is accurate. Right now, it is not. So while I agree that people shouldn't be called incompetent, I also don't believe this is an acceptable situation and hope Duke corrects this moving forward, with or without a fix to the underlying software.

I agree with your response here, and I also appreciate your inside info. So let me ask, wouldn't this be a very simple software situation? I mean, keeping hoop stats is not that difficult - and I can't imagine that software to compile and compare those stats would be pretty easy pickings as far as software goes. Am I right here with my instincts, or am I missing something?

[uh_no]

I agree with your response here, and I also appreciate your inside info. So let me ask, wouldn't this be a very simple software situation? I mean, keeping hoop stats is not that difficult - and I can't imagine that software to compile and compare those stats would be pretty easy pickings as far as software goes. Am I right here with my instincts, or am I missing something?

Yes. and I would hope the NCAA, given they're intending to roll this out nationwide next year, would be checking stats collected by this new system for discrepancies with stats collected the old way. It shouldn't take a bunch of rag tag arm-chair statisticians on DBR (who you callin rag tag??!!?) to identify a major issue like this. What other potential issues are there that we might be missing because we don't follow every stat as closely as dunks? I hope someone's looking, at least.

[BandAlum83]

I wanted to give this thread a quick reply and let everyone know why there may be a discrepancy with the play by play vs. the box scores. The NCAA has mandated that all schools use a new statistics program starting for the 2019-2020 season. NEXT season, everyone will have to use the new software. THIS season, 2018-2019 it is optional and Duke has opted in. This is the first season we are using the software program after using the same program for the last 15 years.

The benefit of this is that we can help the developers get any kinks worked out before it has to be used universally next season, but the downside is there may be some kinks. When inputting the plays, there is an option for dunk and also an option for alley oop. It had been presumed that an alley oop would show up as "Alley-Oop" in the play by play and not as a jumper. As the official scorer for Duke (and have been for the last 20 years and 24 out of the last 27) I've sent a request to the software company to look into adding an alley-oop dunk option as well as relabeling the current alley-oop option as a layup in the play by play.

I just hope this helps to clarify some things so that everyone understands what is going on rather than disparaging people for being incompetent, that give a lot of time for every home game because of their love of Duke

Thanks

Thank you, Jasper. As a process consultant myself, I thought that very likely it was some sort of coding issue. This is great information!

And thank you for what you do for Duke!

[jjasper0729]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your explaining the situation. That said, the primary purpose of record keeping is to keep accurate records, and Duke has significantly missed that directive in this stat category. When you sign up as a beta tester for some piece of software, you accept that there might be some growing pains. In this case, the growing pain seems to be improper reporting of alley-oops as jumpers rather than dunks. That being the case, if Duke needs to manually edit the box to meet the goal of accurate records, then that's what they ought to be doing, not simply chalking it simply chalking it up to a software issue.

I write software. I deal with beta customers. I know sometimes things can be rough. Duke needs to ensure it's record keeping is accurate. Right now, it is not. So while I agree that people shouldn't be called incompetent, I also don't believe this is an acceptable situation and hope Duke corrects this moving forward, with or without a fix to the underlying software.

I also write software as my day job so I understand as well the pitfalls that might come being part of an initial roll out. This software has been used in the NBA and in FIBA for a while now so it's been tested. You can also be assured that, in fact, yes, we try to be as accurate as possible during the game and after it is over to make sure statistics are correct based on the score book as well. We aren't just doing this willy nilly and to presume that we don't care about accuracy is just wrong. That's all I'm going to say on that lest I get dinged by the mods

I have found the issue with this thread and I will tell you that if you are going by box scores, then you need to use the NCAA box. If you are using the play by play then use the LiveStats play by play on the Duke page rather than the "Stats" link that shows up. The "Stats" link is a product of uploading the game to the cloud per the new software and the NCAA and then importing it into the old software as necessary this year (only) to update statistics. The play by play there has a translation issue with some of the codes and is allocating them incorrectly. Again, use the LiveStats link or the NCAA box score if you are going to calculate Dunks for the year. I can't speak for the SID office on how they are doing it but I'm sure they'll be using the NCAA as well since that's what is uploaded when the game is wrapped up.

[uh_no]

I also write software as my day job so I understand as well the pitfalls that might come being part of an initial roll out. This software has been used in the NBA and in FIBA for a while now so it's been tested. You can also be assured that, in fact, yes, we try to be as accurate as possible during the game and after it is over to make sure statistics are correct based on the score book as well. We aren't just doing this willy nilly and to presume that we don't care about accuracy is just wrong. That's all I'm going to say on that lest I get dinged by the mods

I have found the issue with this thread and I will tell you that if you are going by box scores, then you need to use the NCAA box. If you are using the play by play then use the LiveStats play by play on the Duke page rather than the "Stats" link that shows up. The "Stats" link is a product of uploading the game to the cloud per the new software and the NCAA and then importing it into the old software as necessary this year (only) to update statistics. The play by play there has a translation issue with some of the codes and is allocating them incorrectly. Again, use the LiveStats link or the NCAA box score if you are going to calculate Dunks for the year. I can't speak for the SID office on how they are doing it but I'm sure they'll be using the NCAA as well since that's what is uploaded when the game is wrapped up.

I'm out of sporks to give. This is fantastic insight.

[JasonEvans]

I also write software as my day job so I understand as well the pitfalls that might come being part of an initial roll out. This software has been used in the NBA and in FIBA for a while now so it's been tested. You can also be assured that, in fact, yes, we try to be as accurate as possible during the game and after it is over to make sure statistics are correct based on the score book as well. We aren't just doing this willy nilly and to presume that we don't care about accuracy is just wrong. That's all I'm going to say on that lest I get dinged by the mods

I have found the issue with this thread and I will tell you that if you are going by box scores, then you need to use the NCAA box. If you are using the play by play then use the LiveStats play by play on the Duke page rather than the "Stats" link that shows up. The "Stats" link is a product of uploading the game to the cloud per the new software and the NCAA and then importing it into the old software as necessary this year (only) to update statistics. The play by play there has a translation issue with some of the codes and is allocating them incorrectly. Again, use the LiveStats link or the NCAA box score if you are going to calculate Dunks for the year. I can't speak for the SID office on how they are doing it but I'm sure they'll be using the NCAA as well since that's what is uploaded when the game is wrapped up.

Jasper is a stud for coming here to answer these questions and help to resolve this issue.

And the posts he/she has made serve as an important reminder to all of us. While it is easy on an internet message board to slam someone, it is worth remembering that the best posting style is one where you assume the other poster (or perhaps the person you are angry at) is standing right in front of you. Some folks said some really angry things about Duke's official scorer/stat management. And while the complaints were very legit, the tone may have been a bit too personal and disrespectful.

--Jason "" Evans

[Tripping William]

I'm out of sporks to give. This is fantastic insight.

Gotcha covered.

[devildeac]

I'm out of sporks to give. This is fantastic insight.

Gotcha covered.

I agree that this was a great explanation and thanks for taking the time to post that.

Sporks also given. I initially awarded six but the software only credited four.

[elvis14]

Two thoughts. First, awesome responses from Jasper, thanks. Those of us that are a bit OCD are really glad to have clarity. Second thought...I test software (and write software to test software)...chances are I still have some open Burts on "uh no" (aside from the ones I filed when he was in middle school).