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Thread: MLB Playoffs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Austin, TX

    MLB Playoffs

    1. Surprised not a thread yet unless I missed it. The Yankees played 5 whole games!

    2. Joe West is a disaster and poster child for forced retirement of umps of a certain age. Tonightís first inning was an abomination of a call.

    3. AJ Hinch is going to overmanage the Stros to a 5 game exit if he isnít careful.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    1. Surprised not a thread yet unless I missed it. The Yankees played 5 whole games!

    2. Joe West is a disaster and poster child for forced retirement of umps of a certain age. Tonightís first inning was an abomination of a call.

    3. AJ Hinch is going to overmanage the Stros to a 5 game exit if he isnít careful.
    Regarding #2, the call was equivocal, as replay let it stand. Note, replay didn't confirm the call, just there wasn't ample evidence in slo-mo to overturn the call. Which pretty much much makes your "abomination of a call" pretty much a hometown eyes perception, rather than reality.

    I think it was a close enough call to go either way, but it wasn't clear in either direction. A lot of speculation is that the call on the field would have stood, either way(and would have gone to replay had it gone the other way too). There really isn't much question the ball was headed out. The question was, was Betts reaching over the wall or not. The one camera angle that would have answered that definitively was blocked right at that spot so we're left with trying to judge from a dugout area viewpoint. I have no doubts that Betts was about to make the catch, but that's not the question. Its was his glove in the field of play, or reaching outside it. To claim the call was an abomination is just putting on blinders on the play. To claim the call was wrong is ok, but its nonsense to say it was perfectly clear in either direction.

  3. #3
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    ďThe ball becomes dead, and the umpire will award any bases or charge any outs that, in his judgment, would have occurred without the interferenceĒ

    (1) Mookie isnít clearly catching it.

    (2) Barring interference, or a catch, itís clearly a home run.

    (3) Mookieís glove is in the stands.

    (4) Yes, a fan hits Mookieís glove but it isnít clear whether itís in our out of stands.

    So ďdefinitelyĒ not fan interference requiring an out be called? Ok, there is a level of uncertainty there. It is possible. But most of the facts point to a bad call. And Joe West (of course) plays activist ump and makes a call from 150 feet away. If there were definite interference, replay would overturn. The abomination isnít that it was certain either way. The abomination is that Joe West, as is the case with too many umpires, has the temerity to make that call when we have a replay system. Itís old school look at me umping at its worst.

  4. #4
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    .... Iíll add that the Astros have played a timid series. Too many 2-0 takes of fastballs down the middle. Too much nibbling in the pitching game leading to too many base runners. Too much bad catching.

    And Benitendiís play should go down in ALCS lore.

  5. #5
    I don't know how one could possibly conclude that he would definitely have made the catch. He was leaping, reaching at full extension - never an easy play even for an excellent fielder. He might've made it, but a play like that there's a pretty decent chance it doesn't cleanly hit the glove, or just pops out, going either back into play or out for a HR. I just don't see any reasonable basis for concluding the catch. That said, the interference certainly took away a good chance to make the catch, and I think if the call is interference, it should be an out, not an award of some indeterminate number of bases on the possibility he didn't make the catch. When I first saw the replay, the interference seemed clearly out of play, so I disagreed with the call. On replays, I'm not so sure. I still lean that it was out of play - the guy in the grey isn't leaning over the wall, and it looks like Betts' glove is pretty close to his body, so I think the glove is over the wall. But I think it's tough to really tell.

    It's unfortunate to have a questionable call at such an important moment, but so it goes. Even with replay, some calls are just really tough to make. At any rate, Astros will be the favorite tonight, and if they get it back to Boston, we'll see what happens with Sale. As a Yankee fan, I'm not too thrilled with the possibility of Nathan Eovaldi being the ALCS MVP.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  6. #6
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    Speaking of Houston, it appears that Manfred is willing to sweep the Astros cheating scandal under the rug (until the postseason is over, at least):

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...eating-scandal
    http://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/n...81c14l64clb8in

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    I don't know how one could possibly conclude that he would definitely have made the catch. He was leaping, reaching at full extension - never an easy play even for an excellent fielder. He might've made it, but a play like that there's a pretty decent chance it doesn't cleanly hit the glove, or just pops out, going either back into play or out for a HR. I just don't see any reasonable basis for concluding the catch. That said, the interference certainly took away a good chance to make the catch, and I think if the call is interference, it should be an out, not an award of some indeterminate number of bases on the possibility he didn't make the catch. When I first saw the replay, the interference seemed clearly out of play, so I disagreed with the call. On replays, I'm not so sure. I still lean that it was out of play - the guy in the grey isn't leaning over the wall, and it looks like Betts' glove is pretty close to his body, so I think the glove is over the wall. But I think it's tough to really tell.

    It's unfortunate to have a questionable call at such an important moment, but so it goes. Even with replay, some calls are just really tough to make. At any rate, Astros will be the favorite tonight, and if they get it back to Boston, we'll see what happens with Sale. As a Yankee fan, I'm not too thrilled with the possibility of Nathan Eovaldi being the ALCS MVP.
    I don't think you need to worry about that. It's clearly Jackie Bradley Jr at this point.

  8. #8
    Biased observer, but:

    (1) Mookie was going to catch that ball. I'd bet a lot of money on it.
    (2) Whatever the call on the field was was going to stand. There's not a definitive replay view that would say one way or another, or at least there isn't one that can be reviewed in game speed.
    (3) I think West probably got it right and my thinking tracks the thinking in this article -- although this goes into more detail.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-f...probably-good/ I don't think that's definitive, but I think it is most probably right.

    (4) Even if it was wrong, the Astros still gave up 8 runs and blew a lead they'd taken. Left a runner on third in the 7th, 8th and 9th. Bases loaded in the 7th and 9th. They had ample opportunities to make the call meaningless. Credit to Boston for making some pitches and defensive plays (thanks Benny!) to close them out. Series isn't over. Houston's darned good, and Verlander isn't going to make it easy on the Red Sox tonight.

    Lost in the shuffle of everything -- to some extent -- was Betts' throw to get West to start the 8th. The throw was a laser guided missile, but the footwork to make the throw might have been better. He's a hell of a ballplayer.

    One other thing that's been pretty stark is the difference between these two teams and the two teams playing in the NL. To the credit of the Dodgers and Brewers, there's been a lot of good pitching in that series. There's also been a LOT of terrible at bats. There aren't too many guys in the NL series grinding at bats like Springer or Bregman or Martinez. Lot of bad swings. It's like Boston and Houson had the two best records in the league or something.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago 1995 View Post
    One other thing that's been pretty stark is the difference between these two teams and the two teams playing in the NL. To the credit of the Dodgers and Brewers, there's been a lot of good pitching in that series. There's also been a LOT of terrible at bats. There aren't too many guys in the NL series grinding at bats like Springer or Bregman or Martinez. Lot of bad swings. It's like Boston and Houson had the two best records in the league or something.
    Uh, the Dodgers are actually elite in grinding out at bats. They led MLB in both walks and pitches per plate appearance this year, and that's despite having to play with a pitcher in the lineup (they also finished #2 in HR and #3 in OPS). The Brewers don't have quite the same lineup depth in that sense, but Aguilar was in the top five in pitches per plate appearance this year. They also have likely NL MVP in Christian Yelich (who has been largely stymied this series by the Dodgers) and a few other patient/dangerous bats. Of the teams still playing, 7 of the top 9 players in terms of pitches per plate appearance are on the Brewers or Dodgers. 2 are on the Red Sox. None are on the Astros.

  10. #10
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    Yeesh. The Astros are going to need to figure out to score runs. JV has JD Martinez struck out (per Ron Darling) then gives up the dinger on a mistake pitch.

    The Astros need to get over that though. Thereís been a string of Astros mistakes/let downs after bad breaks/what they thought were bad calls this series. Thatís on them. They need to stay focused.

  11. #11
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    All that said, if the strike zone box on TV is accurate at all, this ump has been eye rollingly all over the place.

    But again - Bregman frustrated by a crappy and incorrect first strike, swings and misses then takes on a great pitch by Price. Letting bad calls get to them and not recovering.

    That low/inside pitch just in the strike zone by Price is a great pitch and he has it working tonight.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    All that said, if the strike zone box on TV is accurate at all, this ump has been eye rollingly all over the place.

    But again - Bregman frustrated by a crappy and incorrect first strike, swings and misses then takes on a great pitch by Price. Letting bad calls get to them and not recovering.

    That low/inside pitch just in the strike zone by Price is a great pitch and he has it working tonight.
    I wish they would just use a computer to call balls and strikes already. Itís not easy from the umpireís vantage point, and itís frustrating to see it missed as often as it is, even when it benefits my team.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I don't think you need to worry about that. It's clearly Jackie Bradley Jr at this point.
    Well, I was counting on Verlander to send it back to Boston, and then expecting Eovaldi to start game 6 and have a 3rd killer post-season start. But yeah.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  14. #14
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    Have to hand it to Boston. David Price was vintage last night, Red Sox capitalized on 3 Verlander mistakes, and Astros were gripping. I'll be rooting for the Red Sox the rest of the way given anything associated with Bud Selig shouldn't win anything and I can't bring myself to root for the Dodgers in the WS.

  15. #15
    It's Boston's to lose. Make room on the trophy shelf.
    I surely did recognize that look on Verlander's face when the roof caved in. Seen it many many times over the past few years.
    Sighhhhhh....
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    This thing still going on? The only game tonight that I care about takes place at 7:00 pm in Cameron Indoor Stadium! LGD! GTHc! 9F!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  17. #17
    My loyalties are split...

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  18. #18
    I fell asleep during one of the 15 minute commercial breaks. But, I love JD Martinez, an old school player: a hit the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball guy. No greedy hysterics, no clowning it up. He's the one guy still playing who cheers me up.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    I fell asleep during one of the 15 minute commercial breaks. But, I love JD Martinez, an old school player: a hit the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball guy. No greedy hysterics, no clowning it up. He's the one guy still playing who cheers me up.
    Too bad our Tigers traded him for a bag of beans and a six pack.
    Still a bit astounding that before that, the otherwise good talent evaluating Houstonians released him, Tigers got him gratis (essentially what they just got in return for him). What goes around...

  20. #20
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    JD is, indeed, a throwback player, known as a (very well-earned) "professional" hitter. Which means he never gets cheated at the plate and can hit the ball wherever it's pitched. Fabulous to watch him; loved when he was a Tiger also.

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