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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!

    Emergency podcast #129 - Jason rants about Zion and the Adidas trial

    https://soundcloud.com/dbrpodcast/db...trial-reaction

    0:00 Thanks to Byrd Campbell and their newest Dukie legal eagle.

    0:45 Donald gets us to an emergency pod… about Zion and the Adidas college basketball trial.

    3:05 Jason gets his rant on… taking on Dan Wetzel of Yahoo Sports.

    5:35 Jason says the timeline makes no sense for Zion to have been paid by Duke.

    8:40 Donald compares this scandal to the movie Blue Chips and says Duke didn’t need to break the rules to get top players.

    11:00 Jason is still obsessed with the timeline and also says the implication that the NCAA is afraid to investigate Duke is total bunk.

    15:05 Donald reminds us that the NCAA has looked at Duke before, and they never found anything wrong.

    16:40 Jason’s last word… advice for Duke fans who get confronted by the haters.

    18:00 Goodbye and Duke band!
    Last edited by Bob Green; 10-18-2018 at 04:13 PM.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    https://soundcloud.com/dbrpodcast/db...trial-reaction

    0:00 Thanks to Byrd Campbell and their newest Dukie legal eagle.

    0:45 Donald gets us to an emergency pod… about Zion and the Adidas college basketball trial.

    3:05 Jason gets his rant on… taking on Dan Wetzel of Yahoo Sports.

    5:35 Jason says the timeline makes no sense for Zion to have been paid by Duke.

    8:40 Donald compares this scandal to the movie Blue Chips and says Duke didn’t need to break the rules to get top players.

    11:00 Jason is still obsessed with the timeline and also says the implication that the NCAA is afraid to investigate Duke is total bunk.

    15:05 Donald reminds us that the NCAA has looked at Duke before, and they never found anything wrong.

    16:40 Jason’s last word… advice for Duke fans who get confronted by the haters.

    18:00 Goodbye and Duke band!
    Ranting is fun and so is releasing one's frustration through a few carefully chose words of profanity (I would have been much more vulgar, because like you I am infuriated). However you don't get much mileage out of pitching a hissy fit and preaching to the choir (no insult intended, I found your arguments compelling) Question: Did you invite Wetzel to participate? If, as it appears, Wetzel is offering opinion with nothing but mindless conjecture to back up his accusations he probably would have refused. With seemingly not enough facts in evidence--from what I can tell--to effectively adjudicate his accusations, then the conversation is probably going to remain at the nebulous "it is what it is" level of clarity, not much more than a back-and-forth between sports rivals about who runs a clean program and who doesn't. So..rant on.

    But if you could have gotten him involved for a substantive discussion of the trial and toned down the acrimony a smidge you might have a more effective podcast. As, I said your arguments are rooted in common sense which Wetzel seems to have abandoned, as he often does, in favor of his preferred tactic, mud-slinging. But perceptions will only change when folks like Wetzel are confronted and given the opportunity to defend their statements. If he is effectively able to do so, it's an argument we need to hear like it or not. If, as I suspect, he isn't then by inviting him on for a rational debate you've improved the tone of the conversation to Duke's benefit. You could start by debating the question "what does it mean to run a clean program?" I'm not sure I know anymore and the way the NCAA hedges its interpretations of its own rules, I don't think it does either.
    "You will stop hearing the term 'Big Brother' because we will do it to ourselves." --Neil Postman

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    Question: Did you invite Wetzel to participate? If, as it appears, Wetzel is offering opinion with nothing but mindless conjecture to back up his accusations he probably would have refused. With seemingly not enough facts in evidence--from what I can tell--to effectively adjudicate his accusations, then the conversation is probably going to remain at the nebulous "it is what it is" level of clarity, not much more than a back-and-forth between sports rivals about who runs a clean program and who doesn't. So..rant on.
    Thanks for the suggestion. I will reach out to Wetzel to see if he would be willing to discuss the story. That is a good idea.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion. I will reach out to Wetzel to see if he would be willing to discuss the story. That is a good idea.
    even "decent" journalists are now slave to the clickbait paradigm.
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Ask UNC fans how Nasir Little wound up at their school. They will tell you that after learning that the programs recruiting him were under FBI investigation, he knew he had to go to the cleanest, most pristine program out there which he knew would be 100% above board and that’s why he chose UNC. As comical as that stance is, ask those same fans how Zion Williamson wound up at Duke if the allegations were true that Kansas was preparing to pay him. They’ll claim that if Kansas was going to pay him and he chose Duke, then the only logical conclusion is that Duke paid him more.

    The notion that a player would choose one school without being paid when another schcool was willing to pay seems incredulous to some. But as Jason pointed out, that’s not an unbelievable scenario. David Glenn was talking about this on the radio yesterday, said he spoke to an ACC coach who told him that K and Roy essentially operate on another level than everybody else, that they don’t need to pay recruits because they can get them on their own and so why would they risk it. Agents know this and don’t even try to approach them.

  6. #6
    One thing I didn't hear mentioned is when the texts in question were sent. Were they sent before the investigation went public or afterwards? If before, then Jason's theory of timeline doesn't apply. If after, then the guy sending them is an absolute moron for doing something so incriminating knowing the feds might be watching.

    I don't think this entire paying players enterprise stopped cold last October, but I agree it probably slowed way down. I personally think it's too big and there's too much $ at stake for the shoe companies to just shut it all down. I tend to think it's more likely that those involved are now being much more prudent. Corruption never stops; it just goes further underground.

    What personally scares me is the possibility that Nike is negotiating payments to Duke players without Duke's knowledge or involvement (or at least at arm's length for us to have plausible deniability).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    One thing I didn't hear mentioned is when the texts in question were sent. Were they sent before the investigation went public or afterwards? If before, then Jason's theory of timeline doesn't apply. If after, then the guy sending them is an absolute moron for doing something so incriminating knowing the feds might be watching.
    The texts were before the story of the FBI investigation broke. But my point is not to address whether someone offered stuff to Zion or to dispute whether Zion was even moderately interested in such offers, my point was to refute the notion that DUKE MUST HAVE PAID ZION. That is what Dan Wetzel essentially alleged. That is what rival fans are all saying. They are saying, "Zion had an offer on the table from Kansas/Adidas, Duke must have matched it or exceeded it."

    My point about the timeline is that after October, offers like this would have gone away. No one wanted anything to do with that stuff while the FBI was snooping around and arresting people. So, when Zion committed to Duke in January, there is no way we can believe that Duke gave him anything.

    -Jason "Sorry if that was unclear... I was spitting mad " Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
    I don't think this entire paying players enterprise stopped cold last October, but I agree it probably slowed way down. I personally think it's too big and there's too much $ at stake for the shoe companies to just shut it all down. I tend to think it's more likely that those involved are now being much more prudent. Corruption never stops; it just goes further underground.

    What personally scares me is the possibility that Nike is negotiating payments to Duke players without Duke's knowledge or involvement (or at least at arm's length for us to have plausible deniability).
    I agree with this. While I trust K and believe Duke is innocent, I don't think someone who presumes that K and Duke are guilty will be persuaded by the timeline. Lots of criminals continue to commit crimes every day even though they know law enforcement is trying to catch them, whether out of arrogance, the thrill of it, the benefits outweighing the risk, stupidity, or various other reasons. I would expect the charges slowed down payments, but would be shocked if they stopped them altogether. Also, while I trust K, I don't trust every shoe rep, agent, family member, hanger-on, etc. out there. If a player were parking a different car at the practice facility every day (see Hairston, P.J.), the coach would or should know. If a player took a small amount of money in high school completely unrelated to his college (see Maggette, Corey), it would be very difficult for a coach to know. The scale of money discussed with Zion might or might not be apparent, depending on what the family did with it (see Goodfellas).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    The texts were before the story of the FBI investigation broke. But my point is not to address whether someone offered stuff to Zion or to dispute whether Zion was even moderately interested in such offers, my point was to refute the notion that DUKE MUST HAVE PAID ZION. That is what Dan Wetzel essentially alleged. That is what rival fans are all saying. They are saying, "Zion had an offer on the table from Kansas/Adidas, Duke must have matched it or exceeded it."

    My point about the timeline is that after October, offers like this would have gone away. No one wanted anything to do with that stuff while the FBI was snooping around and arresting people. So, when Zion committed to Duke in January, there is no way we can believe that Duke gave him anything.

    -Jason "Sorry if that was unclear... I was spitting mad " Evans
    Gotcha. So essentially it's the argument that the amateur underworld changed significantly after October 16th (ish), 2017. Anything that happened before that date cannot be assumed as consistent with what happened after that date.

    I can buy that.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    The texts were before the story of the FBI investigation broke. But my point is not to address whether someone offered stuff to Zion or to dispute whether Zion was even moderately interested in such offers, my point was to refute the notion that DUKE MUST HAVE PAID ZION. That is what Dan Wetzel essentially alleged. That is what rival fans are all saying. They are saying, "Zion had an offer on the table from Kansas/Adidas, Duke must have matched it or exceeded it."

    My point about the timeline is that after October, offers like this would have gone away. No one wanted anything to do with that stuff while the FBI was snooping around and arresting people. So, when Zion committed to Duke in January, there is no way we can believe that Duke gave him anything.

    -Jason "Sorry if that was unclear... I was spitting mad " Evans
    Yes, the Duke would never do that argument - Coach K's entire legacy, etc - is the most compelling reason why I'm not the least bit worried about this.

    I mean, it's a clumsy analogy, but it's applicable in the sense that a long career headed for a glorious legacy was destroyed in a matter of days...Paterno and Sandusky. I only say that to point out a long career can be totally overwhelmed by one really bad situation.

    I can't see K doing anything, or his assistants, like this. K has his legacy, the assistants have their futures.

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