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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    I'm believe you are correct that Hurricane Florence possibly impacted attendance; however, I have attended every NCCU game since the series started and the truth is NCCU fans do not show up in large numbers. Even though the school is in Durham many other visiting teams bring much larger crowds than NCCU.
    We took our son and two grandsons to this game, and opted to sit with them in Section 22 instead of using our regular seats in Section 27. While the areas on the opposite side of the stadium where visiting fans are usually seated were sparsely populated -- understandably so, considering that the strong direct sun must have made it feel like sitting under a broiler -- there were a lot of NCCU fans sitting around us in Section 22, which was comfortably shaded.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    We have always sat in either of the top two rows. We had drinks spilled on us, cigarette ashes and smoke (even after smoking was "banned" from the seating area). Had opposing fans scream in our ears. My dad was in a wheelchair, before the handicapped seating was all around, so he HAD to sit there. It was amazing how rude the jerks around him were. Now we have one of the handicap seating areas behind us, but towards the end of the games, others will drift in and once again lean over the railings and scream in our ears. FYI - that high-pitched whistling can really hurt other people's ears. There are other ways to cheer on your team.


    And, yes, stay off my lawn!

    Was loving our top seats Saturday, watching those seated at the bottom close to passing out once they neared the top.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I love some of the ideas listed in this thread...and it is odd how few NCCU fans show up for this. I have always wondered about the "Bull City Proud" campaign, with the bull horns with the hands (or is that a set of devil horns?). From observation, growing up in Raleigh as a Duke fan, Duke and Durham have always just sort of tolerated each other. I live out of the area now, but I'd like to hear some feedback on the Bull City proud meme...is it working? Can it work? Many of you know a lot more about this than I. I would think a big NCCU showing at the game would be one of the obvious fruits of such a campaign were it working.

    I remember my parents telling me, as we would see old photos from the late 30s, 40s and 50s with what appear to be big crowds in the stadium, that for a few decades Duke was simply a bigger deal in football than UNC or NC State. I also think they had more local alums back then...seems to me the serious Yankee migration to Duke started after that, and maybe pushed NC local non alums away a bit. Just spit balling theories here...some in the know can validate my theories, or knock them down, as the case may be...
    I think the football program's efforts over the last ten years to improve the Duke brand in the eyes of Durham residents is working. That is not to say it is working as well as one would like. Cut's first year at Duke was my first year of undergrad, and I thought I could see a noticeable improvement by the time I graduated. I spoke to others who had followed the program or grew up in the area and they agreed, but I don't have any hard evidence to back it up. It could be our imaginations. There is another factor to take into account at this point, which is that there might now be a trend of more people moving to Durham who are sports-atheists, rather than being aligned with one team or another.

    Regarding the second part of your comment, my impression is that it was just a different environment back then - not only for Duke, or football, but for public entertainment venues generally. I don't know which figure is the right one, but my understanding is that by some reasonably standard measure - it might just be average number of moviegoers - the number of people going to movies since the 40s or 50s has remained basically static.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Richmond VA

    Filling WW

    Folks, the stadium will be full on Saturday - VA Tech fans travel.

    So let's try to fill the stadium with Duke fans. If you have season tickets, try turning them back into the ticket office. Or give them to Duke fans who live near Durham. Or something.

    -ramdevil

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N. Charleston, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I love some of the ideas listed in this thread...and it is odd how few NCCU fans show up for this. I have always wondered about the "Bull City Proud" campaign, with the bull horns with the hands (or is that a set of devil horns?). From observation, growing up in Raleigh as a Duke fan, Duke and Durham have always just sort of tolerated each other. I live out of the area now, but I'd like to hear some feedback on the Bull City proud meme...is it working? Can it work? Many of you know a lot more about this than I. I would think a big NCCU showing at the game would be one of the obvious fruits of such a campaign were it working.

    I remember my parents telling me, as we would see old photos from the late 30s, 40s and 50s with what appear to be big crowds in the stadium, that for a few decades Duke was simply a bigger deal in football than UNC or NC State. I also think they had more local alums back then...seems to me the serious Yankee migration to Duke started after that, and maybe pushed NC local non alums away a bit. Just spit balling theories here...some in the know can validate my theories, or knock them down, as the case may be...
    I credit Duke for Bull City proud campaign. Looking at NCCU attendance numbers from their home games last season, it's not surprising to have a sparse showing for a game they have zero chance of winning. Over the course of the series, games have been played at various times, in various weather conditions, with little change in attendance. Duke gets a win, NCCU gets a paycheck and life goes on. I am looking forward to seeing different teams representing Division 1AA (or whatever it's called) in the future


    image.jpg

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I love some of the ideas listed in this thread...and it is odd how few NCCU fans show up for this. I have always wondered about the "Bull City Proud" campaign, with the bull horns with the hands (or is that a set of devil horns?). From observation, growing up in Raleigh as a Duke fan, Duke and Durham have always just sort of tolerated each other. I live out of the area now, but I'd like to hear some feedback on the Bull City proud meme...is it working? Can it work? Many of you know a lot more about this than I.
    Durham is far more of an attraction than it was even 10 years ago. With it's current growth trajectory, I'd say Duke gets more than just "tolerating" Durham. People actually WANT to live here now.

    As for Durham's view of the school, it's hard for any of us to say since we have a bit of a bias being on the "Duke" side of any line which might exist. Research lead me https://forums.dukebasketballreport...-tie-to-Durham which seems to indicate usage of the sign did not originate at duke. Regardless of origin, it has become a thing...last time I was at a bulls game, they asked fans to flash the bull sign for a chance to win something or other. Now whether Duke paid for that, who knows...but people associate it with Durham even if it is not ubiquitous.

    For better or worse, the gentrification of city means the city has less of a problem with duke.
    Duke Football:

    Winning in the ACC AND the NFL.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    The Iron Dukes email I just got seems to acknowledge that night games draw better crowds..."we are expecting a large crowd since it is a night game...."

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    The Iron Dukes email I just got seems to acknowledge that night games draw better crowds..."we are expecting a large crowd since it is a night game..."
    So I should probably purchase tickets tonight? I plan on just buying GA.
    "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by mattman91 View Post
    So I should probably purchase tickets tonight? I plan on just buying GA.
    never a bad idea, but I think tickets will be available at the game, and there won't be any oven seats to avoid given the hour...I know VT travels well, but
    two factors make me wonder if they may arrive with a smaller flock this time: 1) bad performance last week, and 2) night game...I recall a massive number of buses last time I saw them for a day game in WW, not an especially propitious hour this time for a long post game bus ride...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    The Iron Dukes email I just got seems to acknowledge that night games draw better crowds..."we are expecting a large crowd since it is a night game..."
    signed...Captain Obvious...
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Durham is far more of an attraction than it was even 10 years ago. With it's current growth trajectory, I'd say Duke gets more than just "tolerating" Durham. People actually WANT to live here now.

    As for Durham's view of the school, it's hard for any of us to say since we have a bit of a bias being on the "Duke" side of any line which might exist. Research lead me https://forums.dukebasketballreport...-tie-to-Durham which seems to indicate usage of the sign did not originate at duke. Regardless of origin, it has become a thing...last time I was at a bulls game, they asked fans to flash the bull sign for a chance to win something or other. Now whether Duke paid for that, who knows...but people associate it with Durham even if it is not ubiquitous.

    For better or worse, the gentrification of city means the city has less of a problem with duke.
    Now there is no doubt about the fact that Durham is changing, and for the better. Seriously, in ten years or less it's gone from h-ll hole to an interesting city with a lot to offer, and may be the best foodie town in the entire state. And clearly, Duke's attitude towards Durham is awesome now - it was the vice versa I was wondering about.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Now there is no doubt about the fact that Durham is changing, and for the better. Seriously, in ten years or less it's gone from h-ll hole to an interesting city with a lot to offer, and may be the best foodie town in the entire state. And clearly, Duke's attitude towards Durham is awesome now - it was the vice versa I was wondering about.
    There are some folks who claim that Durham greatly improved about 34 years ago at the same time that I moved from Durham to Atlanta. I know that both cities got better looking, and the average IQ of both cities increased at the exact same time. A lot of coincidences, huh?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Now there is no doubt about the fact that Durham is changing, and for the better. Seriously, in ten years or less it's gone from h-ll hole to an interesting city with a lot to offer, and may be the best foodie town in the entire state. And clearly, Duke's attitude towards Durham is awesome now - it was the vice versa I was wondering about.
    Phail Wynn, who retired recently from VP at Duke, did a lot to make the change in relationship between town and gown improve. He had been the president of Durham Tech for more than 30 years before being hired at Duke. He died of a heart attack less than a month following his retirement. His widow and son were honored at the Army game.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    The heat and sun was brutal on the TV side. Need to make the Tower on the other side significantly taller or create clouds every game to cover the sun. My best answer is to provide free tickets to the Duke community every game, once the sun problem is solved. Duke makes their money on TV revenue. Get the people in the stands to create a community. Those who want the great seats can pay for them- but again make it reasonable.
    I like the idea of solving the sun problem with a larger obstruction on top of the Tower better than free tickets. They gave out free tickets this past weekend, and the effect was negligible. And every year (save this year), there were ticket specials aplenty on social media, Meet the Devils, etc. for less than it cost to go to a movie for some games. To the average Duke fan, the season doesn't really start til October--traditionally Duke has rarely had strong attendance records in September (save for once a decade opponent like Alabama). Looking back at the pre internet Spurrier years, the attendance was meh until the ACC season started. Aside from that, Duke needs to knock off some traditional powerhouses at home (like VT) and capitalize on hot starts. I think the attendance this year has been a little better than after the 10 win year in 2013. Part of that, I think is that Duke has won its last 2 bowl games, and the team was actually picked to finish as a darkhorse candidate for the Coastal. The other part is that Duke has smartly not scheduled 4 home Sept games in a row---like they normally do. When I talked to a Duke beat writer about this he stated, "Duke is going to refrain from doing this (or try to), because people just delay going to the game if they can go to the next game".


    But I think it's more than the heat. There are plenty of schools, private and public, that have noon games, 3:30 tips, etc that have strong attendance in September that do no warrant heavyweight status; and, that are not necessarily successful all the time (ECU and South Carolina come to mind). I think for Duke to take the next step, and this has been mentioned before if they want to emphasize better crowd attendance--it's to schedule the ECUs, the Apps, the South Carolinas of the world. Regional teams that travel well and generate interest. But I don't think that Duke wants to go down that road, because it doesn't necessarily mesh well against the teams that are considered recruiting rivals, or tough teams that carry hefty price tags (like App).

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by devilirium View Post
    I like the idea of solving the sun problem with a larger obstruction on top of the Tower better than free tickets. They gave out free tickets this past weekend, and the effect was negligible....But I think it's more than the heat. There are plenty of schools, private and public, that have noon games, 3:30 tips, etc that have strong attendance in September that do no warrant heavyweight status; and, that are not necessarily successful all the time (ECU and South Carolina come to mind)..
    The biggest problem Duke faces is demographics...there's simply not enough students and local alums to fill the stadium, and not being "the University of" - Duke doesn't necessarily have hundreds of thousands of fans who are not affiliated with the school the way the cheats do, and the way all "university of's" do. But there's nothing we can do about that (but shrink the stadium).

    I think the sun situation is a major situation that maybe can be addressed.

    As for South Carolina and ECU, those are not analogs for the situation at Duke. SC is a "university of" - in a football state - and while the Gamecocks are not always good, their home atmosphere is always big time. Williams Brice Stadium, especially at night, is an under-rated football atmosphere. As for ECU, they get a little of that regional "university of" thing going on, and it's kind of the school for all of Eastern NC. Duke has no such built in fan base. Never ever will.

    Small private schools face an uphill battle in all sports, none more than football.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by devilirium View Post
    I like the idea of solving the sun problem with a larger obstruction on top of the Tower
    Duke Football:

    Winning in the ACC AND the NFL.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    The biggest problem Duke faces is demographics...there's simply not enough students and local alums to fill the stadium, and not being "the University of" - Duke doesn't necessarily have hundreds of thousands of fans who are not affiliated with the school the way the cheats do, and the way all "university of's" do. But there's nothing we can do about that (but shrink the stadium).

    I think the sun situation is a major situation that maybe can be addressed.

    As for South Carolina and ECU, those are not analogs for the situation at Duke. SC is a "university of" - in a football state - and while the Gamecocks are not always good, their home atmosphere is always big time. Williams Brice Stadium, especially at night, is an under-rated football atmosphere. As for ECU, they get a little of that regional "university of" thing going on, and it's kind of the school for all of Eastern NC. Duke has no such built in fan base. Never ever will.

    Small private schools face an uphill battle in all sports, none more than football.
    True, it's less valid with the private schools (Im betting the smaller privates like Wofford though fill it up, and Wake in recent years did well with attendance) but I think there would be more people than you would think that would want to see App or South Carolina here at Duke than you would think. I remember attending that game in '78 in Wade as a young'un and there was a decent crowd back then. Duke just doesn't want to fork over the money to a school like App ( I think it's less about the supposed "embarrassment" of losing to them). The bottom line is that Duke needs help from the travelling team to fill the stadium, but there are certain teams that carry more attractiveness than others. With regard to shrinking the stadium, I don't see that happening especially with the prospect of entertaining a team like ND next year. You're leaving a substantial amount of revenue on the table for getting a team like for Duke let alone Durham if you shrink the stadium (games with UNC, VT, Miami come to mind)--and I realize that you casually mentioned that idea.
    Last edited by Bob Green; 09-26-2018 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Fix quote tag

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    I think the sun situation is a major situation that maybe can be addressed.
    Games should only be scheduled on cloudy days until November!
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by devilirium View Post
    ... The bottom line is that Duke needs help from the travelling team to fill the stadium ...
    Map of 130 FBS teams: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6004734375&z=7

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    burns_wade_crossover.jpg

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