How do we get people to Wallace Wade on Saturday?

[Acymetric]

I'm not convinced beer will increase attendance. I am pretty sure that just because the state schools start doing it, Duke won't decide they need to, also. It's not like we are competing to get baby blue and Wuffie fans in our seats.

"Well, I'm a State fan, but Duke has beer now, so I'm going to go bake in their sun instead of ours today."
That's not a statement you will ever hear.

I'm not necessarily convinced it would increase attendance either, but it might. Certainly wouldn't hurt attendance. That said, we aren't competing for State fans and unc fans, we're competing with unafilliated fans and even casual Duke fans that might opt to skip the Duke game to go to the State game with some of their buddies. I can imagine serving beer might help entice some of them over this way, or keep them from being swayed to go see the Pack.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I'm not necessarily convinced it would increase attendance either, but it might. Certainly wouldn't hurt attendance. That said, we aren't competing for State fans and unc fans, we're competing with unafilliated fans and even casual Duke fans that might opt to skip the Duke game to go to the State game with some of their buddies. I can imagine serving beer might help entice some of them over this way, or keep them from being swayed to go see the Pack.

True, but to play devil's advocate, if I am a parent looking to bring a few kids or my scout troop or youth football team, an alcohol free environment is enticing to me. I assume the vast majority of people at DBR are responsible drinkers but all it takes are a few drunks to make it an unfriendly environment. Granted, there is nothing stopping people from getting drunk outside the stadium. I just don't get the obsession here with selling beer - that is really low on the list to me. I think having better food options and better service is a lot more important than beer. Find a way to motivate the food service people to hustle a little bit.

[budwom]

^ I would agree that beer, in and of itself, will not move the needle much. Winning begets enthusiasm and better TV slots which beget bigger crowds (until we lay an egg). In today's environment, there is absolutely no substitute for winning.
It's way too easy to stay home for a mediocre noon game, just watch on TV.

[AustinDevil]

True, but to play devil's advocate, if I am a parent looking to bring a few kids or my scout troop or youth football team, an alcohol free environment is enticing to me. I assume the vast majority of people at DBR are responsible drinkers but all it takes are a few drunks to make it an unfriendly environment. Granted, there is nothing stopping people from getting drunk outside the stadium. I just don't get the obsession here with selling beer - that is really low on the list to me. I think having better food options and better service is a lot more important than beer. Find a way to motivate the food service people to hustle a little bit.

Not to pick on you, but I hate the very American, very binary view that lumps in any alcohol with an assumption of a drunk, unfriendly, kid-unsafe environment. Plenty of kids manage to attend pro sporting events in locales that are a lot rougher than West Campus and somehow survive. Plenty of kids attend Tulane football games despite the Louisiana craft beers, and their parents are somehow able to tell the difference between that Uptown stadium and the worst block of Bourbon Street.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Not to pick on you, but I hate the very American, very binary view that lumps in any alcohol with an assumption of a drunk, unfriendly, kid-unsafe environment. Plenty of kids manage to attend pro sporting events in locales that are a lot rougher than West Campus and somehow survive. Plenty of kids attend Tulane football games despite the Louisiana craft beers, and their parents are somehow able to tell the difference between that Uptown stadium and the worst block of Bourbon Street.

Fair points - I was debating whether to include the issue of drunk people in my comment because it was not my primary point, but I admittedly made it sound like it was. My bottom line is that a significant portion of the posts here have mentioned beer as a major factor that could drive attendance. I just don't see it. I don't think having beer at a game will be the deciding factor that makes many people choose to attend a game. And I'm guessing that the margins on beer sales are not enough to make an impact on the bottom line.

I am trying to think of a school that in the last 10-20 years has developed a "football culture." This is an attitude where in the spring, alumni who don't live too close to Durham say "I think I want to head back to Durham and meet up with some friends for a football game." People definitely do this for basketball, and those tickets are much harder to come by. This is what makes it work at other schools.

[AustinDevil]

Fair points - I was debating whether to include the issue of drunk people in my comment because it was not my primary point, but I admittedly made it sound like it was. My bottom line is that a significant portion of the posts here have mentioned beer as a major factor that could drive attendance. I just don't see it. I don't think having beer at a game will be the deciding factor that makes many people choose to attend a game. And I'm guessing that the margins on beer sales are not enough to make an impact on the bottom line.

I am trying to think of a school that in the last 10-20 years has developed a "football culture." This is an attitude where in the spring, alumni who don't live too close to Durham say "I think I want to head back to Durham and meet up with some friends for a football game." People definitely do this for basketball, and those tickets are much harder to come by. This is what makes it work at other schools.

That second paragraph encapsulates a good question, and Duke could certainly do a lot more to enhance and maintain a football culture. I know we'll have ACC/ESPN-mandated weeknight games again, for example, and I know Duke will again do a terrible job of "accommodating" them.

The schools that I've seen develop more of an atmosphere like that are those that have returned to campus stadiums after being off-campus (Baylor, Tulane, SMU, and Houston are my examples, because that's where I live). Rebuilding Wade was great, but there's a ton of room for marketing (I was going to say "better marketing," but any marketing would be an improvement).

On beer, yeah, good beer will cause some to attend who wouldn't otherwise. And that's enough for me. (I always advocate for beer in this discussion but I don't actually drink a lot of beer.)

[Bob Green]

A lot of good discussion in this thread but I am in the camp of those who say nothing will increase attendance except winning, winning and winning some more. As others have stated, winning big games is key to the formula. 4-0 Duke losing badly to a VT team coming off a loss to ODU is a prime example of what not to do.

One HUGE thing folks who do attend games can do to improve attendance perceptions is show up on time. The stadium is noticeably fuller at the end of the 1st quarter than it is at kick off because there is a constant flow of folks showing up late. How hard is it to show up on time? A second thing folks can do is actually sit in their seats and watch the game. It seems there are as many folks wandering around the concourse as there are sitting in their seats.

An issue with the casual fan who is seeking a great "game day experience" is they are not all that interested in watching the football game. For fanatics such as myself, the "experience" is watching the game on the field.

As for beer, I am not opposed to beer being sold but I do not believe it will make a dent in the attendance problem.

[Acymetric]

One HUGE thing folks who do attend games can do to improve attendance perceptions is show up on time. The stadium is noticeably fuller at the end of the 1st quarter than it is at kick off because there is a constant flow of folks showing up late. How hard is it to show up on time? A second thing folks can do is actually sit in their seats and watch the game. It seems there are as many folks wandering around the concourse as there are sitting in their seats.

This is brought up often, but are either of these things all that unusual for sporting events? I feel like this is par for the course (especially the concourse wandering during live action).

[Bob Green]

This is brought up often, but are either of these things all that unusual for sporting events? I feel like this is par for the course (especially the concourse wandering during live action).

Perhaps it isn't all that unusual but when I watch SEC football games on TV, I do not see empty seats at kick off. Wallace Wade Stadium would be a little less empty if folks would show up on time and sit in their seats.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Perhaps it isn't all that unusual but when I watch SEC football games on TV, I do not see empty seats at kick off. Wallace Wade Stadium would be a little less empty if folks would show up on time and sit in their seats.

They show up on time...they are just stuck 35 deep in security lines.

[Acymetric]

They show up on time...they are just stuck 35 deep in security lines.

In fairness, those lines don't get long until like 5 minutes before kickoff. When I get there anywhere from 20-60 minutes before kickoff I basically walk right in. If 10,000 of our 20,000 attendees show up at 11:50 for a 12:00 kick, yeah there are gonna be lines. I'm a lot more sympathetic to the "people showing up late" complaint than the "people in the concourse" complaint.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

This is brought up often, but are either of these things all that unusual for sporting events? I feel like this is par for the course (especially the concourse wandering during live action).

When I attended games at Texas (Austin), there were no people wondering around during the game, not even at halftime. There was no stream of people going up and down the aisles. It's just not done. It's a cultural thing.

[OldPhiKap]

When I attended games at Texas (Austin), there were no people wondering around during the game, not even at halftime. There was no stream of people going up and down the aisles. It's just not done. It's a cultural thing.

Same is true at Clemson. And FSU. And ND. And Alabama. And UGA. And USCar. . . .

And to Bob’s point — the way you stop that is to make the product on the field much-watch. The only way to get butts in the seats is to make the eyes want to see what is happening on the field.

[JetpackJesus]

When I attended games at Texas (Austin), there were no people wondering around during the game, not even at halftime. There was no stream of people going up and down the aisles. It's just not done. It's a cultural thing.

I wonder if it is a factor at WW that you can still see the game from the "concourse," and your view probably is not appreciably worse than wherever your seat is? In some instances, it might even be better.

[Acymetric]

I wonder if it is a factor at WW that you can still see the game from the "concourse," and your view probably is not appreciably worse than wherever your seat is? In some instances, it might even be better.

That's really only kind of true from the visitors side (you can only see the field if you're right on the wall, not really just walking around) and slightly less true from the closed end of the shoe (the wall is higher than it used to be, and also has a barred railing on top of it). The home side you cannot see the game from the concourse (the wall is much higher than it used to be, probably ~6 ft high) unless you are again right on the wall and you are tallish or stand on your tippy toes the whole time.

Same is true at Clemson. And FSU. And ND. And Alabama. And UGA. And USCar. . . .

And to Bob’s point — the way you stop that is to make the product on the field much-watch. The only way to get butts in the seats is to make the eyes want to see what is happening on the field.

Err...so its true at the absolute top tier football schools with the most die hard fans? Objection! Relevance?

[OldPhiKap]

Err...so its true at the absolute top tier football schools with the most die hard fans? Objection! Relevance?

I’m not talking about getting folks into the stadium, I’m talking about getting those folks who are there to sit in their seats and watch the game. And the way to do that is to have much-watch football on the field.

Goes to motive and opportunity, your Honor. My friend’s objection goes to weight, not admissibility. (Okay, That last line may not apply. Just my go-to knee-jerk response, along with “it’s a question of fact for the jury to determine.”)

[Acymetric]

I’m not talking about getting folks into the stadium, I’m talking about getting those folks who are there to sit in their seats and watch the game. And the way to do that is to have much-watch football on the field.

Goes to motive and opportunity, your Honor. My friend’s objection goes to weight, not admissibility. (Okay, That last line may not apply. Just my go-to knee-jerk response, along with “it’s a question of fact for the jury to determine.”)

I maintain that attendance behavior of other football schools is not relevant in this case, your honor! The prejudicial nature vastly​ outweighs any probative value!

...I just finished binge watching The Practice, so I'm feeling very lawyerly

[Reilly]

... I am trying to think of a school that in the last 10-20 years has developed a "football culture." ...

I think some have -- going from maybe 0 to 30 or 45 mph ... maybe JMU, ODU, Charlotte, Liberty ... schools with no team at all or no real history to speak of ... and then ramping up to at least a little bit of something to help with school pride and cohesion ... I'm still amazed at the number of entrants to FBS football in the last 20 years given the entry costs and supposed dying nature of the sport ...

We have a FB history that few can match ... yet there's a large and growing disconnect between that FB history and our sophisticated, cosmopolitan, international, academically-oriented student body and young alums ... just sort of the way of the world and the cultural tide ...

[OldPhiKap]

I maintain that attendance behavior of other football schools is not relevant in this case, your honor! The prejudicial nature vastly​ outweighs any probative value!

...I just finished binge watching The Practice, so I'm feeling very lawyerly

The defense rests.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

When I attended games at Texas (Austin), there were no people wondering around during the game, not even at halftime. There was no stream of people going up and down the aisles. It's just not done. It's a cultural thing.

It's a long term cultural thing for sure, but I would add to your theory a short term psychological thing....a full stadium will always be more intense than a half empty stadium. If you're surrounded by people in a full stadium, you sub consciously value your seat, your spot. What brings people to a stadium is indeed the product on the field, but it's not that alone. It's that plus the atmosphere at the stadium. If you feel like you've had an exciting tense experience, even in defeat, you'll come back. Duke basketball, even when they weren't that good, normally had Duke Indoor/Cameron Indoor full enough often enough for there to be the culture of an exciting and hostile atmosphere.

And this has to do more with how full a stadium is than how many people there are at the stadium. Perhaps the footprint of the ole Wally Wade precluded any realistic down sizing and other measures to create intimacy and intensity and a supply demand situation on the seats, short of building a whole new facility. 25,000 people in a 30 thousand seat stadium would be entirely different vibe than 25 thousand in Wade now. A different vibe helps everything...on field success, recruiting, etc.