ACC Football, Week Four

[moonpie23]

hokies looked good...

[JasonEvans]

The VT loss to ODU is probably the biggest upset loss they have had in their entire history. This is on the level of App St beating Michigan.

Disagree.. App State was waaay better than this ODU team.

[Reilly]

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id...psets-25-years

VT on this list 2x already. The ODU game does not crack the top 10. AppSt/Mich does.

[Banana]

I am disappointed by Va Tech's shocking loss yesterday, but only because I attended Va Tech for a year before transferring to Duke. I am not concerned that Va Tech's loss removes the possibility of a "big" win next week. Duke doesn't need big wins at this point, just consistent wins. We have played surprisingly well so far, given the heavy injury toll we have suffered. Talented young players are stepping up across the board. If we can get most of our injured players back soon, we have a good shot at going into the Miami game undefeated. If we are undefeated at that point, I think we have a good chance to win that game. I am certainly not counting my chickens, yet. Some of our injured players may be out longer than we expect, or additional key players may get injured, or we may throw in a poor game and lose one we shouldn't. But it now appears that Duke's team, if reasonably healthy, may be at least the second best team in the division. If we keep winning, the AP and Coaches polls will eventually give us considerable credit for that, even though there may always be some penalty, in the polls and the Las Vegas odds, for Duke being Duke.

[arnie]

Some pretty poor results for Duke today. The VT loss keeps us from a potentially good win. Had Army pulled off the upset against Oklahoma all of a sudden our win against them looks much better.

Well Baylor easily beat an improved Kansas team and as noted Army played great against Oklahoma. I think we get ranked this week. The prognosticators (CBS, SEC network disagree on if we get), seems to depend if TCU, Okla St fall out.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The VT loss to ODU is probably the biggest upset loss they have had in their entire history. This is on the level of App St beating Michigan.

It might be the biggest upset loss for VT, but this is not on the level of App State Michigan for a couple reasons...Michigan is Michigan, and VT is not, simply in the cache of the name. Michigan was also ranked like 4th or 5th nationally at the time. And the game was in the Big House in front of 109 thousand Michigan fans.

[Wander]

Actually, ODU is a 1A/FBS team now, but just the last couple years. In Sagarin's ratings prior to today, they were ranked ahead of only two FBS teams, UTEP and Texas State. They were also ranked behind 51 1AA/FCS teams.

The VT loss to ODU is probably the biggest upset loss they have had in their entire history. This is on the level of App St beating Michigan.

Thanks for the correction. Strangely, this is somehow only the 3rd biggest upset for VT, if you go strictly by point spread.

Conference pride is overrated. It matters at the very top because you have 5 power conferences competing for 4 playoff spots, but otherwise the bowl structure of college football just rewards getting as many wins as possible if you're already a power conference team. Basketball is different (I think conference pride is overrated there too, but for different, more subjective reasons).

[BigWayne]

It might be the biggest upset loss for VT, but this is not on the level of App State Michigan for a couple reasons...Michigan is Michigan, and VT is not, simply in the cache of the name. Michigan was also ranked like 4th or 5th nationally at the time. And the game was in the Big House in front of 109 thousand Michigan fans.

Well of course it's all subjective, but my reasoning was that though Michigan is above VT in stature, 2018 ODU is substantially below where App St. was. App St. was a consistently good FCS team at the time, and in fact ranked #1 in FCS. ODU is currently ranked below >50 FCS level teams. #1 FCS currently is North Dakota, which is #33 in Sagarin, between UCF and Florida.

[wilson]

Well of course it's all subjective, but my reasoning was that though Michigan is above VT in stature, 2018 ODU is substantially below where App St. was. App St. was a consistently good FCS team at the time, and in fact ranked #1 in FCS. ODU is currently ranked below >50 FCS level teams. #1 FCS currently is North Dakota, which is #33 in Sagarin, between UCF and Florida.

*North Dakota State. The Bison have won 6 of the last 7 FCS championships. UND, the Fighting Hawks (formerly the Fighting Sioux), just moved up to FCS from D-II about a decade ago.

[Acymetric]

Is it possible VT drops completely out of the rankings this week? They basically have no resume (FSU is not looking like a good right now).

So the answer turns out to be yes (in the AP) and no (in the coaches). Duke ranked ahead of them in both in any case! Woohoo!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Well of course it's all subjective, but my reasoning was that though Michigan is above VT in stature, 2018 ODU is substantially below where App St. was. App St. was a consistently good FCS team at the time, and in fact ranked #1 in FCS. ODU is currently ranked below >50 FCS level teams. #1 FCS currently is North Dakota, which is #33 in Sagarin, between UCF and Florida.

It is indeed subjective...but I think I have a strong case and I think the lore of history will bear me out. It's clear that Michigan has way more cache than VT - and it's clear that pulling this stunner in the Big House was far more shocking than had the game - for some reason - been in Boone. I hate Michigan, but they are a massive school with almost a century of football tradition and iconic helmets, iconic fight song, and for the longest time, the only stadium seating more than 100 thousand. Tech has none of that and never will.

Then there's the charm of the little mountain school from Appalachia beating the big power from outside Detroit. Somehow that's viscerally different than the school from downtown Naw-fuk beating the school from the country. And let's not forget the final minute dramatics...App St taking the lead with FG...then Michigan completing like a 50 yard pass with 6 seconds to set up FG...then the FG block. In fact, it was so dramatic, that it led to an immediate spike in scrips for Big Ten Network.

As for trying to make it objective, it's simply impossible to compare the rankings of that App team and this ODU team because the entire set up of the divisions in CFB are so different now.

Ten years from now, there will still be more talk about App St - Michigan than ODU-VT. I'll be a dozen pies...
Kind of like Duke-Kentucky in 92...in addition to all of the objective facts that made the game great, both games somehow have that "it" factor.

[Acymetric]

I'll weigh in to say that regardless of what "objective" measures point to ODU-VT being the bigger upset, App State - Michigan was definitely more iconic and will stand the test of time in football lore when talking about getting upset by a lower division opponent. ODU-VT will end up as a fun fact to bring up, App State - Michigan is basically the archetype of this kind of upset. This was a bigger upset, but App State - Michigan was more...shocking, somehow.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'll weigh in to say that regardless of what "objective" measures point to ODU-VT being the bigger upset, App State - Michigan was definitely more iconic and will stand the test of time in football lore when talking about getting upset by a lower division opponent. ODU-VT will end up as a fun fact to bring up, App State - Michigan is basically the archetype of this kind of upset. This was a bigger upset, but App State - Michigan was more...shocking, somehow.

it was more shocking, and there are objective and subjective reasons for that: including;
A: It happened BEFORE ODU - VT and therefore set the standard.
B: The amazing last minute back and forth, by both teams. That last minute was crazy.
C: At Michigan, at the Big House, the iconic Big House, the iconic helmets, the ghost of Bo Schembechler...and on and on...
D:to this day The Big Ten Network credits the game for making them take off...

[UVa1981]

App State - Michigan was definitely more iconic and will stand the test of time in football lore when talking about getting upset by a lower division opponent.

I agree that the App State upset was definitely the more iconic, for many of the reasons so trenchantly raised in this thread. Michigan's lore, stadium, helmets, fight song, and so on, whereas Virginia Tech has been a solid to good but not great team. Similarly, App State went into Michigan's stadium and knocked Michigan off; this smacks of bearding the lion in his den. Yesterday's game was played in Norfolk. Finally the App State upset was a thriller, a nail-biter down to the bitter end, with a miracle finish.

Continuing the latter point, the ODU game had a seesaw quality to it, until the game reached the dregs of the 4th quarter. Then ODU just walked away, winning by 2 TDs. App State was, and historically has been, a solid football team. Anybody playing had to expect a dogfight. ODU is terrible, with an 0-3 record, and is ranked more lowly than a large number of FCS teams. While App State's upset may have been more iconic, I submit that it was much less shocking.

A 28 point dog just won by 14, that totals to a 42 point miss by the oddsmakers. Maybe that's just the nature of college sports and games played between teenagers.

In any event, I'm pretty sure that UVa will be hearing less of UMBC from the Hokies for a while.

[Wander]

Depends on how you define the "bigger" upset. The ODU-VT outcome was less likely and a involved a bigger Vegas point spread. The Michigan-App State upset was more impactful on the national landscape and more historic for being the first of its kind. To the poster above, neither was as big or embarrassing as UVA-UMBC in basketball.

A word of warning for us: both the Michigan team that lost to App State and the Virginia Tech team that lost to James Madison ended up having pretty good seasons! So beware thinking that this loss necessarily means that VT is terrible this year.

[BigWayne]

A word of warning for us: both the Michigan team that lost to App State and the Virginia Tech team that lost to James Madison ended up having pretty good seasons! So beware thinking that this loss necessarily means that VT is terrible this year.

Fortunately, the game will not be played by those of that speculate on internet BB. I'm confident the coaching staff will make sure our players are focused on what they need to do to defeat VT.

[UVa1981]

To the poster above, neither was as big or embarrassing as UVA-UMBC in basketball.

You won't get an argument from me about that. That said, UMBC was good enough to make the Dance, and any team that good is good enough to beat you on a given night. To that point, they played lights out, to their great credit.

A word of warning for us: both the Michigan team that lost to App State and the Virginia Tech team that lost to James Madison ended up having pretty good seasons! So beware thinking that this loss necessarily means that VT is terrible this year.

Again, no argument. Such a loss could hack them off and make them very dangerous or it could demoralize them. I'd rather have them when you have them (next game) then when we have them (last game of the regular season). Their problems appeared to be mostly on the defensive side of the football and their DC has a history of fielding good defenses.

Good luck next weekend. This turn of events will make your game all the more interesting to watch.

[PackMan97]

https://twitter.com/HeelIllustrated/...64937279414273

From UNC's Week 4 home game against Pitt. Third Quarter.

Captioned: "They are Tar Heels born. They are Tar Heels bred. When they start losing, they are Tar Heels fled."

Note: Carolina did win this game, although it is uncertain if they will have to vacate the win after another future scandal.

[OldPhiKap]

https://twitter.com/HeelIllustrated/...64937279414273

From UNC's Week 4 home game against Pitt. Third Quarter.

Captioned: "They are Tar Heels born. They are Tar Heels bred. When they start losing, they are Tar Heels fled."

Note: Carolina did win this game, although it is uncertain if they will have to vacate the win after another future scandal.

Many of their fans are suspended for the first four* games.




*Which UNC will reduce to three, because they are a bunch of cheating blowhards.

[PackMan97]

*Which UNC will reduce to three, because they are a bunch of cheating blowhards.

In UNC's defense, math is math. The players were suspended for 30% of the season.

11*30% =3.3 rounded down to 3
12*30%= 3.6 rounded up to 4