Duke FB: 1936 National Champions

[Reilly]

DU82 posted in another thread about the Berryman championship. Had never heard of it.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berryman_QPRS

and more here: http://wilson.engr.wisc.edu/rsfc/oth.../berryman.html

[Nick]

DU82 posted in another thread about the Berryman championship. Had never heard of it.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berryman_QPRS

and more here: http://wilson.engr.wisc.edu/rsfc/oth.../berryman.html

If UNC claims the Helms foundation "championship" then we should definitely claim this one.

[jimsumner]

I'm all for not claiming any of these.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Had never heard of that 36 "championship." There was a dear friend of the family, my parents, who played on the 1939 Rose Bowl team...undefeated, untied and un scored against...until the final seconds of the Rose Bowl when a substitute QB threw a TD pass for Southern Call and they won 7-3.

That was the team, as I heard it in family lore, that launched the name Iron Dukes. I'm sure there are people here who can confirm, or deny, that.

[rasputin]

I'm all for not claiming any of these.

Me too. I'm not in favor of stooping to the Cheaters' level.

[Nick]

Me too. I'm not in favor of stooping to the Cheaters' level.

We wouldn't be stooping to their level at all. After doing some highly sophisticated analysis, I can assure you that the Berryman QPRS championship is 83% more legitimate than the Helms foundation championship.

[rsvman]

Is Berryman a bakery? If not, this thing doesn't count.

[DU82]

I’ll point out that the football “championships” are included in the current NCAA record book, so there’s some official recognition there.

The current NCAA ‘basketball record book does not include other championships, either played on the court (NIT) or baked up after the fact.

I’d only bring this up if somebody insists on bragging about bakery championships. Ask them how many football championships they have.

[BigWayne]

From the NCAA record books for 1936:

1936
Duke: Berryman

LSU: Sagarin, Sagarin (ELO-Chess), Williamson

Minnesota: AP, Billingsley, Dickinson, Dunkel,
Helms, Litken
hous, National Championship
Foundation, Poling

Pittsburgh: Boand, Football Research, Houlgate

So the bakery went with Minnesota for that year, as did most other polls/computations. AP poll had Duke at #11.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm all for not claiming any of these.

No. Hell no! Hell wanker NO! GTHc!

[Newton_14]

If UNC claims the Helms foundation "championship" then we should definitely claim this one.

Put me in the opposite camp. Exactly because uncCheat Claims the bread "title" we should NOT claim this and burn any tangible item acknowledging this fake title.

I'm all for not claiming any of these.

And as in 99% of the cases, put me in the same camp as the honorable Jim Sumner on this.

[DU82]

Put me in the opposite camp. Exactly because uncCheat Claims the bread "title" we should NOT claim this and burn any tangible item acknowledging this fake title.


And as in 99% of the cases, put me in the same camp as the honorable Jim Sumner on this.

The “champions” were voted on by writers and coaches in the AP and UPI polls of that era. Why is that better than a data driven measure, other than this particular one was done years later (the same as the Helms vote until about 1942.). Why are those “real” and this one is fake? At least these are acknowledged by the NCAA in their record book, unlike the basketball ones.

(I originally went about seeing if any poll/ranking has the ‘38 team as champions, as it was the first, and one of two, they held opponents scoreless in the regular season.)

[Newton_14]

The “champions” were voted on by writers and coaches in the AP and UPI polls of that era. Why is that better than a data driven measure, other than this particular one was done years later (the same as the Helms vote until about 1942.). Why are those “real” and this one is fake? At least these are acknowledged by the NCAA in their record book, unlike the basketball ones.

(I originally went about seeing if any poll/ranking has the ‘38 team as champions, as it was the first, and one of two, they held opponents scoreless in the regular season.)

Fair points and I admit I have not researched this, but for me the minimum bar is being recognized as the champs the same year/season as the games were played. Is that the case here? No retroactive" stuff counts in my book.

I do realize Football is different in that we haven't really had "Championship Games" in D1 until just recently so my "Next Bar to Cross" doesn't apply here as it does in basketball, meaning anytime a uncCheat fan mentions the bread title, I ask them for the score of the game and who the MVP was...

[OldPhiKap]

Has Duke ever claimed this championship in the past?

[Reilly]

In the media guide, Duke lists the 1936 team as garnering an 11th place AP vote and the SoCon Championship:

http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/media...DB_OEM_ID=4200

I'm not aware of Duke ever claiming this 1936 championship. And I'm not advocating it should. I started the thread b/c I had never heard of this retrospective computer analysis till it was mentioned in another thread.

I do like objective measures and believe the CFP Playoffs would be well-served by having the computers pick the teams (something simple like sports-reference's SRS) and the NCAA hoops tourney doing the same.

The 1936 team scored a lot more points than the famed 1938 squad, which of course earned the Iron Dukes name for its defense.

[msdukie]

From Wikipedia: (Duke does not claim either "title"):

"National championships

Duke does not officially claim any national championships. The 1936 team was retroactively named national champions by Berryman (QRPS), a mathematical rating system designed by Clyde P. Berryman in 1990. The NCAA recognizes the Berryman title in its official NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision records. James Howell, a football historian, also selected Duke as 1936 national champions using his Football Power Ratings formula.

Ray Bryne, a minor selector, chose the 1941 Blue Devils as national champions.

Year Coach Selector
1936 Wallace Wade Berryman (QRPS), James Howell
1941 Wallace Wade Ray Bryne
National championships: 2 (0 claimed, 1 recognized by NCAA)†
†The 1936 Berryman (QRPS) title is recognized by the NCAA."