Stop me if you've heard this one - Carolina Panthers 2018/19

[Devilwin]

Wait, are talking about the Panthers or the Blue Devils here?

<exits, stage right>

Panthers, but if the shoe fits..And it does...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Agree, my friend. but that secondary is horrible. Just lob it down field and watch your guy get it while our's don't even turn to look for the ball!

Oh no doubt....thought I was watching Duke there for a second. A lot of those balls fluttered a bit - should not have been completed. That game winner for Seattle...should've been intercepted. That DB looked like a fool on that play. The receiver owned him. He's gonna cringe at film time on that one. Why I pin the loss on the offense is that the offense missed so much low hanging fruit that they are clearly capable of picking...could be the Panther defense just isn't very good, period.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As a Seahawks fan, I felt the Panthers lost that game in the 1st quarter by not stepping on their throats and going up 3 instead of a few touchdowns.

Carroll is a good coach, and Schottenheimer was able to diagram some plays to find holes ina Panthers D that swamped them at the beginning of the game. If those first two drives end in touchdowns, Seattle doesn't play the type of offense to come back from that many points.

[Highlander]

Oh no doubt...thought I was watching Duke there for a second. A lot of those balls fluttered a bit - should not have been completed. That game winner for Seattle...should've been intercepted. That DB looked like a fool on that play. The receiver owned him. He's gonna cringe at film time on that one. Why I pin the loss on the offense is that the offense missed so much low hanging fruit that they are clearly capable of picking...could be the Panther defense just isn't very good, period.

True, but when your offense puts up 27 points, they aren't entirely the reason you lost.

Panthers keep putting themselves in 50/50 games. They needed a 63 yard field goal to beat an atrociously bad Giants team at home. They needed a miracle 4Q comeback to beat the Eagles. They came up just short against the Redskins, Lions, and now the Seahawks.

This was a game where 1-2 more things go right for you and you pull it out. If Jackson doesn't go down on the first play of the game, or if Gano hits his FG, or Cam doesn't throw that interception in the end zone, or if Cam converts on 4th and short, or if the defense managed to stop Seattle at any point during the 2h, or if... Woulda, coulda, shoulda is pretty much the m.o. for bad NFL teams.

IMO, our primary problem is on defense. Our defensive line is not very good and garners no measureable pass rush. That pushes the secondary (which is young) in impossible cover situations. Our offense is aging but decent, and it lacks a go-to guy who will convert a big play whenever we need it. McCaffrey is awesome, but he is not a short yardage power back. I don't blame Gano for missing a 52 yard FG; those things are 50/50 props. I do blame the offense for passively assuming a 52 yard fg attempt was good enough to win. I knew as soon as we lined up to kick that we were going to lose. Even if we hit the FG, Seattle had way too much time left and we weren't stopping them with 4 downs to work with on every possession.

[moonpie23]

Bunch of assistant coaches fall on Rivera's sword...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Bunch of assistant coaches fall on Rivera's sword...

...probably pushed by David Tepper....

[mattman91]

Time for Riverboat Ron to go. He can take Eric Washington with him.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Time for Riverboat Ron to go. He can take Eric Washington with him.

Rivera didn't toss all those interceptions yesterday.

Seriously tho, Panthers are in free fall. It was just a few weeks ago that there were grumblings about Cam as a dark horse for MVP. Things are in a tailspin, and injuries to Olsen and firing assistant coaches does not bode well for the last four games. Are all four games against the Saints?

[Acymetric]

Bunch of assistant coaches fall on Rivera's sword...

Should have let the DC go. Internal hire that was probably an over-promtion (stop me if you've heard this one...).

[Highlander]

Time for Riverboat Ron to go. He can take Eric Washington with him.

Eric Washington I'm OK with losing, as the defense seems like a shell of what it once was. Not sure about Rivera. He's consistently had this team in or near the playoffs, and he's well respected by the players. I think we could do a heck of a lot worse, and firing your coach midseason reeks of desperation and pretty much tells the players you've given up on the year. But it is tough when the ownership and GM of the team changes and you aren't their hire, so I think his days are numbered. Another .500 or below season and he's gone. It's a tough league.

Overall, I don't think the problem with the Panthers is coaching. I think the core of the team is just getting old and slow, and the rookies are making too many mistakes. Our once vaunted defensive line scares absolutely no one, and Davis is past his prime. Even Luke has had a sub-par year. The lack of a pass rush means QB's can pick our young secondary apart. On offense, McCaffrey is the only one playing at a pro-bowl level right now. Cam's shoulder is clearly bothering him. I think the INT's Sunday were because he was lofting his passes, and the TB defense has an extra split second to adjust. And with a very young receiving corps and a QB who isn't known for his accuracy, it all fell apart in spectacular fashion. Despite all that, the Panthers put up close to 500 yards of total offense on Sunday and had multiple chances to win, but you don't win in the NFL coughing up 4 turnovers.

Cleveland is an absolute must-win. They could salvage 8-8 if they take out the Falcons and the Browns. That's probably not getting them into the playoffs this year, but it would get them close. And playing NO last week in the season could be a blessing if the Saints have nothing to play for. But it will require a very different looking team than the one we've seen ever since the Pittsburgh game.

[mattman91]

Eric Washington I'm OK with losing, as the defense seems like a shell of what it once was. Not sure about Rivera. He's consistently had this team in or near the playoffs, and he's well respected by the players. I think we could do a heck of a lot worse, and firing your coach midseason reeks of desperation and pretty much tells the players you've given up on the year. But it is tough when the ownership and GM of the team changes and you aren't their hire, so I think his days are numbered. Another .500 or below season and he's gone. It's a tough league.

Overall, I don't think the problem with the Panthers is coaching. I think the core of the team is just getting old and slow, and the rookies are making too many mistakes. Our once vaunted defensive line scares absolutely no one, and Davis is past his prime. Even Luke has had a sub-par year. The lack of a pass rush means QB's can pick our young secondary apart. On offense, McCaffrey is the only one playing at a pro-bowl level right now. Cam's shoulder is clearly bothering him. I think the INT's Sunday were because he was lofting his passes, and the TB defense has an extra split second to adjust. And with a very young receiving corps and a QB who isn't known for his accuracy, it all fell apart in spectacular fashion. Despite all that, the Panthers put up close to 500 yards of total offense on Sunday and had multiple chances to win, but you don't win in the NFL coughing up 4 turnovers.

Cleveland is an absolute must-win. They could salvage 8-8 if they take out the Falcons and the Browns. That's probably not getting them into the playoffs this year, but it would get them close. And playing NO last week in the season could be a blessing if the Saints have nothing to play for. But it will require a very different looking team than the one we've seen ever since the Pittsburgh game.

My problem with Rivera is play calling. He is constantly playing too conservatively and playing to "not lose" - playing for a FG too often.

You certainly have more faith than me, I think yesterday's game pretty much put the nail in the coffin for this season.

[Highlander]

My problem with Rivera is play calling. He is constantly playing too conservatively and playing to "not lose" - playing for a FG too often.

That was more Fox than Rivera IMO. He earned the nickname "Riverboat Ron" for taking chances, and he has done so several times this year. Problem is when he has rolled the dice, it typically fails. Two recent examples:

• Vs. Detroit we went for 2 at the end of the game (playing for the win instead of the tie). And we had the conversion - Cam missed the throw high, but his man was open.
• The ending drive vs. Seattle looked conservative, but we were in that situation because we went for it in the 1H on 4th and inches deep in Seattle territory and didn't make it. We could have settled for a FG instead and been up 3 at the end of the game. Conversely, Seattle went for it on 4th down twice in the 2H and converted twice.

To be fair, I didn't see much risk taking this week (beyond Cam's decision to launch wounded ducks into double coverage), and Cam went to his check down a lot. That being said, I think overall Cam is doing better going to his check down receiver and getting the ball out faster than he ever has. But he's still not incredibly accurate, is clearly hurt, and we don't have a reliable deep receiving threat. That lack of a deep threat tends to limit our play calling.

[Acymetric]

That was more Fox than Rivera IMO. He earned the nickname "Riverboat Ron" for taking chances, and he has done so several times this year. Problem is when he has rolled the dice, it typically fails. Two recent examples:

• Vs. Detroit we went for 2 at the end of the game (playing for the win instead of the tie). And we had the conversion - Cam missed the throw high, but his man was open.
• The ending drive vs. Seattle looked conservative, but we were in that situation because we went for it in the 1H on 4th and inches deep in Seattle territory and didn't make it. We could have settled for a FG instead and been up 3 at the end of the game. Conversely, Seattle went for it on 4th down twice in the 2H and converted twice.

To be fair, I didn't see much risk taking this week (beyond Cam's decision to launch wounded ducks into double coverage), and Cam went to his check down a lot. That being said, I think overall Cam is doing better going to his check down receiver and getting the ball out faster than he ever has. But he's still not incredibly accurate, is clearly hurt, and we don't have a reliable deep receiving threat. That lack of a deep threat tends to limit our play calling.

There is a little more history to "Riverboat Ron" than that.

He was roundly criticized by fans and local media for being way too conservative early in his tenure. Can't say if that is what drove it, but suddenly he started taking a ton of chances, going for it on 4th downs and the like. He then earned the nickname "Riverboat Ron" due to his sudden onset of being willing to roll the dice. He has since mostly regressed to being conservative, but occasionally does gamble. They are not necessarily calculated gambles though, frequently seems like there is little rhyme or reason to when he plays conservative (at times where being aggressive would be appropriate) and when he plays aggressive (where the conservative approach might have been best).

He does not have a solid track record of taking chances, it is something that comes in spurts and was not part of his original coaching style.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

There is a little more history to "Riverboat Ron" than that.

He was roundly criticized by fans and local media for being way too conservative early in his tenure. Can't say if that is what drove it, but suddenly he started taking a ton of chances, going for it on 4th downs and the like. He then earned the nickname "Riverboat Ron" due to his sudden onset of being willing to roll the dice. .

Yeah, as I remember it, it was going from NEVER taking a chance to suddenly doing it a few times. I think the "Riverboat Ron" was almost a sarcastic title at first....but then he kept going for it on fourth downs and earned the moniker.

Now, that said, he was often extremely cautious on third downs, forcing the fourth down decisions.