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  1. #741
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    While a lot of things would need to fall in to place, it is at this point not unreasonable to consider, for 21-22...Roach, Houstan/Keels, Griffin, Baldwin, and Banchero as a starting 5; with Baker, Williams, Brakefield, and Coleman coming off the bench...good lord.
    Starting four stud freshmen with one older player was basically the formula in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019. We know the freshmen will produce, but the question is how much we’ll get from the veterans.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Starting four stud freshmen with one older player was basically the formula in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019. We know the freshmen will produce, but the question is how much we’ll get from the veterans.
    agree 100%. in a daydream scenario, that lineup gets us a fast start out of the gate, with the "upperclassmen" rotating in early and often to get the experience into the rotation, hopefully once the opposing team has been knocked back a little bit.

    it's a ways off, and this season is going to be a lot of fun. but it's a fun thing to ponder, until we start playing for real next month.

  3. #743
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I think the three big men, at this point, are all projects and will not be part of the 8-man rotation.
    You think Tape is a project? Why would K bring in his first-ever grad-student transfer if he's a project? It's not like Duke is going to get much from him in his sixth year.

    And Duke doesn't need a non-rotation big man for practice. They have a 6-9 walk-on for that.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I'm gonna guess that Coach K has an ACC rotation of Goldwire, Johnson, Moore, Hurt, Tape, Roach, Steward, and Baker. I think the three big men, at this point, are all projects and will not be part of the 8-man rotation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    You think Tape is a project? Why would K bring in his first-ever grad-student transfer if he's a project? It's not like Duke is going to get much from him in his sixth year.
    No, FDD was saying that he views Williams, Coleman, and Brakefield as projects.

    He laid out the 8 players he thought would be in the rotation (including Tape), meaning it's the other three big men that he views as projects and not part of the rotation.

  5. #745
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    No, FDD was saying that he views Williams, Coleman, and Brakefield as projects.

    He laid out the 8 players he thought would be in the rotation (including Tape), meaning it's the other three big men that he views as projects and not part of the rotation.
    Oh, okay. I don't see how Brakefield can possibly be considered a big man. He's a wing. And Coleman might be able to play the 4. But not the 5.

    Coleman is the only one of the 11 recruited players that I can't see cracking the rotation this season. Will K go 10 deep? Probably not. I suspect one of Williams or Brakefield will be sitting but darned if I can figure out why. The big variable to me regarding front-court PT is Matthew Hurt. Is he really prepared to bang inside?

  6. #746
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Oh, okay. I don't see how Brakefield can possibly be considered a big man. He's a wing. And Coleman might be able to play the 4. But not the 5.

    Coleman is the only one of the 11 recruited players that I can't see cracking the rotation this season. Will K go 10 deep? Probably not. I suspect one of Williams or Brakefield will be sitting but darned if I can figure out why. The big variable to me regarding front-court PT is Matthew Hurt. Is he really prepared to bang inside?
    Cool. 247, ESPN, and Rivals all consider Brakefield a PF, which I view as a "big man" position. I fully understand that HS positions and college positions differ slightly, but I'm going with what's historically been projected.

    https://247sports.com/Player/Jaemyn-...ield-46036360/
    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...myn-brakefield
    https://n.rivals.com/content/prospec...kefield-208614

    Coach K will not go 10 deep. I actually see him going 8 deep (this means double digit minutes during the ACC and the post-season) because I think Johnson, Moore, and Hurt will command a lot of minutes. 2019-20 was the exception, not the rule. 10 players actually played double-digit minutes. But does anyone believe Jack White was part of the rotation deep into the season? Joey Baker logged 8, 5, 2, 9, and 4 minutes his last 5 games of the season. To me, it's looking more like a 8-man rotation as the team got ready to do damage.

    I'd love to see 11 or even 10 men get constant minutes. But that's not Coach K. And that's one reason why Coach K has been so successful.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Classic "analyst speak." Keep it vague so you can't be wrong...how about "I see a tall dark stranger in your future?" Sometimes people just don't know. The people I trust the most don't know.
    Slater's MO, at least on twitter, is to be anything but cryptic. He'll frequently tip his hat about which way the wind is blowing. Like, when a player makes an announcement that he'll commit next week, Slater will be write a couple of words about the prospect and post a picture of the team's mascot where he thinks the player will commit (almost always the right call). That's what caught my eye about the tweet. It was out of character for the tweeter.

  8. #748
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    I don't want to single out anyone above, but we had 10 players average 12 or more minutes per game in 2019-2020 -- very "meaningful minutes" at Duke. And that wasn't because some key players were injured and, therefore, others got an opportunity. The only player losing significant time was Wendell, who sat for six games.

    I see no reason why 2020-2021 won't have a similar pattern with four returning players and six highly ranked recruits. If Coleman isn't ready, we will have nine players at 10+ minutes; if he can contribute, we'll have ten.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  9. #749
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    In 2020-21 I would love to see 5 Duke players average 40 mins a game...or any other combination of players as long as there are games...

  10. #750
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Cool. 247, ESPN, and Rivals all consider Brakefield a PF, which I view as a "big man" position. I fully understand that HS positions and college positions differ slightly, but I'm going with what's historically been projected.

    https://247sports.com/Player/Jaemyn-...ield-46036360/
    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...myn-brakefield
    https://n.rivals.com/content/prospec...kefield-208614

    Coach K will not go 10 deep. I actually see him going 8 deep (this means double digit minutes during the ACC and the post-season) because I think Johnson, Moore, and Hurt will command a lot of minutes. 2019-20 was the exception, not the rule. 10 players actually played double-digit minutes. But does anyone believe Jack White was part of the rotation deep into the season? Joey Baker logged 8, 5, 2, 9, and 4 minutes his last 5 games of the season. To me, it's looking more like a 8-man rotation as the team got ready to do damage.

    I'd love to see 11 or even 10 men get constant minutes. But that's not Coach K. And that's one reason why Coach K has been so successful.
    Brakefield is an intriguing prospect. He's 6-8, 215, which translates into a combo forward (3-4) at Duke. But he's not likely to play much, if at all, with his back to the basket. I imagine there will be lots of times when two out of Johnson, Brakefield and Baker are on the court, just kind of playing the kind of position-less basketball K loves. If you recall his recruitment went from is-Duke-recruiting-Brakefield to Brakefield commits to Duke in a matter of days. That didn't give us much time to fantasize about his Duke career.

    I've heard good things about him. He could be really, really good, really, really soon. But Duke needs 3-point shooters and right now Hurt, Baker and Steward fit that job description. Does Brakefield? He might need to in order to get significant minutes this season.

  11. #751
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Slater's MO, at least on twitter, is to be anything but cryptic. He'll frequently tip his hat about which way the wind is blowing. Like, when a player makes an announcement that he'll commit next week, Slater will be write a couple of words about the prospect and post a picture of the team's mascot where he thinks the player will commit (almost always the right call). That's what caught my eye about the tweet. It was out of character for the tweeter.
    Well, if you discerned something solid from that tweet, David, you're doing better than I am...I'm not sure why he bothered.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I don't want to single out anyone above, but we had 10 players average 12 or more minutes per game in 2019-2020 -- very "meaningful minutes" at Duke. And that wasn't because some key players were injured and, therefore, others got an opportunity. The only player losing significant time was Wendell, who sat for six games.

    I see no reason why 2020-2021 won't have a similar pattern with four returning players and six highly ranked recruits. If Coleman isn't ready, we will have nine players at 10+ minutes; if he can contribute, we'll have ten.
    I don't agree with you, but I'm curious. Are you forgetting Patrick Tapé? Or are you expecting one of our 11 recruited scholarship players to be behind Coleman?

  13. #753
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't agree with you, but I'm curious. Are you forgetting Patrick Tapé? Or are you expecting one of our 11 recruited scholarship players to be behind Coleman?
    Yes, of course, I forgot Tape. I am not in mid-season form. At first, I had O'Connell on my list of players! We have five experienced college players returning, plus six freshmen. I am comfortable that ten of them will get 10+ minutes per game (based on total Duke games, not just games played).

    We have a greater number capable players on the roster these days -- and K has evolved his approach.
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 10-08-2020 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Kepp trying to clarify
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Yes, of course, I forgot Tape. I am not in mid-season form. At first, I had O'Connell on my list of players! We have five experienced college players returning, plus six freshmen. I am comfortable that ten of them will get 10+ minutes per game (based on total Duke games, not just games played).

    We have a greater number capable players on the roster these days -- and K has evolved his approach.
    I will say this: other than possibly Coleman, it’s hard to see which of our recruited scholarship players will be relegated to garbage time, once the ACC schedule begins. They all seem worthy of minutes.

    That said, I still agree with those who think that in competitive games, starting in January, only 8 players will top 10 minutes in any particular game.

  15. #755
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I will say this: other than possibly Coleman, it’s hard to see which of our recruited scholarship players will be relegated to garbage time, once the ACC schedule begins. They all seem worthy of minutes.
    With all due respect (and I do have an immense amount of respect for you) we see this same story play out every year. So-and-so player is “too talented not to play.” And every year we see K cut his rotation down to 7 or 8. Last year was the exception to the rule, but as others have said by the end of the season if we’re talking about minutes in close games against competitive opponents we were still only playing 7 or 8 guys.

    I could absolutely see a world in which Coleman, Brakefield, Tape, Williams, Goldwire, Hurt, or even one of Roach or Steward gets buried on the bench.

  16. #756
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I will say this: other than possibly Coleman, it’s hard to see which of our recruited scholarship players will be relegated to garbage time, once the ACC schedule begins. They all seem worthy of minutes.
    I get the above sentiment, and I feel largely the same. But, I would merely add that until we have seen a bit more of the newcomers, we are operating with very incomplete information. A year ago, who thought that Cassius Stanley, a kid ranked outside the top 25 by nearly every recruiting service, would be a much more significant for Duke than Matthew Hurt, who was in most top ten rankings? The notion that a borderline top ten recruit like Marques Bolden would play three years for Duke and never even average 20 minutes per game seemed bonkers the summer before his freshman year.

    We've seen ten minutes of highly edited videotape of these guys playing 5v5 and that is about it. They had reputations from playing against high school kids, but we didn't even get all-star games last spring. Until we see a bit more of them, I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty who of the newcomers will rise to a large role and which ones will struggle to earn K's trust in meaningful games.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I don't want to single out anyone above, but we had 10 players average 12 or more minutes per game in 2019-2020 -- very "meaningful minutes" at Duke. And that wasn't because some key players were injured and, therefore, others got an opportunity. The only player losing significant time was Wendell, who sat for six games.

    I see no reason why 2020-2021 won't have a similar pattern with four returning players and six highly ranked recruits. If Coleman isn't ready, we will have nine players at 10+ minutes; if he can contribute, we'll have ten.
    While technically true based on the MPG stat, it's usually more telling to go with the Kedsy mpg method of counting 0 min for DNP-CD. Joey would then fall short as he had at least a few games where he didn't see the court at all (I don't recall any injuries, but could be off). AOC would then barely make it 12.4. So, I guess doesn't change your story much, but would be 9 players 12 mpg and 10 with >10mpg.

  18. #758
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    While technically true based on the MPG stat, it's usually more telling to go with the Kedsy mpg method of counting 0 min for DNP-CD. Joey would then fall short as he had at least a few games where he didn't see the court at all (I don't recall any injuries, but could be off). AOC would then barely make it 12.4. So, I guess doesn't change your story much, but would be 9 players 12 mpg and 10 with >10mpg.
    I did. Joey Baker is 10.9, when adjusted for DNP's. AOC is 12.2. I used the ESPN numbers, as opposed to the stats accessed off of GoDuke.com, which are riddled with confusing entries. I see the ESPN data total to 2,558 points, whereas, the sum of Duke scores is 2,488. The GoDuke data leaves out the stats for the Duke-FSU game, which Duke won 70-65. (I said the data was confusing).

    Joey played in 28 out of 31 games. Alex played in 29 of 31 per ESPN. Both are above 10.0 when the adjustments are made. Perhaps you have other data.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  19. #759
    No matter who plays x minutes - if you dont make shots, you will be relegated to the bench. I'll use White, Joey Buckets, and AOC as references in last years games.

  20. #760
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    No matter who plays x minutes - if you dont make shots, you will be relegated to the bench. I'll use White, Joey Buckets, and AOC as references in last years games.
    Depends on your role. Goldwire didn’t make a ton of buckets but got major minutes.

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