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  1. #2801
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    We have a huge squad. Been a long time since we had that much size.

    Possibly since the Bagley/Carter team? Zoubek/Lance and co?

    I really like how we have all the right pieces next season. Plus experience too. We finally aren't relying on Freshmen anymore.
    I think comparing this team to 2017-18 is an interesting exercise. That team started four future solid NBA players in Allen, Carter, Bagley and Trent, so much talent, but couldn’t quite break the FF barrier - highlights the challenge to get there with so much youth.

    The young Bagley/Carter twin towers led us to play a lot of zone defense late in the year. Again this year?

    That team was a respectable 37% from 3 with most of the volume coming from Trent and Allen. I would be thrilled if this team hit that number but I think Roach and Moore will need to be volume shooters and likely will be more in that 32-35% range. Hope I’m wrong. If we shoot 37%, it will be Keels and Baker getting volume looks at 40%+.

    I do think one spot where this team can outshine that team is ironically the spot many of us are concerned about. I’ll take a soph Roach over a frosh Duval to run the team.

  2. #2802
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    I really like how we have all the right pieces next season. Plus experience too. We finally aren't relying on Freshmen anymore.
    We will start at least 2 freshman and have 3 in our top 6, worst case top 7. (It’s possible 3 start)

    Paolo will also lead the team in scoring/all-acc voting. Best case a soph Williams is our 2nd best player.

    We will be pretty reliant on those 3 Freshman and very reliant on Paolo

  3. #2803
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    We will start at least 2 freshman and have 3 in our top 6, worst case top 7. (It’s possible 3 start)

    Paolo will also lead the team in scoring/all-acc voting. Best case a soph Williams is our 2nd best player.

    We will be pretty reliant on those 3 Freshman and very reliant on Paolo
    It seems pretty clear to me that the best version of Duke is one where Paolo is a 1st Team All-American and contender for the major POTY awards. Now, I fully expect and hope several players - Williams, Roach, Moore, and Griffin - will be there to help carry the load. But yeah, if Paolo is getting POTY award consideration, things are going pretty, pretty good for Duke next season.

  4. #2804
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    We will start at least 2 freshman and have 3 in our top 6, worst case top 7. (It’s possible 3 start)

    Paolo will also lead the team in scoring/all-acc voting. Best case a soph Williams is our 2nd best player.

    We will be pretty reliant on those 3 Freshman and very reliant on Paolo
    What you say is all true. But what I think is interesting about next year's team is the combination of top-shelf freshmen and top 25 returnees.

    We will have three top 25 returnees (#25 Moore, #20 Roach, #25 Williams) and two top 15 freshmen (Banchero, Griffin). How many times in the past 25 years has that combination (at least three top 25 returnees and at least two top 15 freshmen) occurred? I'm glad you asked. Three.

    1998: It's hard to know for sure how many top 25 returnees we had in 1997-98 (no RSCI yet), but among Langdon, Price, Domzalski, Chappell, Wojo, Carrawell, James, and McLeod, we had to have had at least three. And we had three top 15 freshmen in Brand, Battier, and Burgess. This team went 15-1 in the ACC, lost in the ACC title game, and had an 18-point lead in the Elite Eight but failed to close out the game with the Final Four on the line.

    2006: The 2006 team had four top 25 returnees (S Williams, Redick, Nelson, and Dockery) and two top 15 freshmen (McRoberts, Paulus). This team went 14-2 in the ACC, won the ACC tournament, and if we hadn't run into the LSU buzzsaw in the Sweet 16 might have gone down as one of the all-time Duke greats. But like 1998, we weren't able to get to the Final Four.

    2017: The 2017 team had four top 25 returnees (Allen, Kennard, Jefferson, Jeter) and four top 15 freshmen (Giles, Tatum, Bolden, and Jackson). If not for injuries, what a team this would have been. Like 2006, we won the ACC tournament but ran into a white-hot SEC team in the NCAAT and the Final Four was not to be.


    But that's it. It's not so much that we won't be relying on freshmen, but the combination of returning and incoming talent is pretty rare, even for Duke. Obviously it's no Final Four guarantee, as none of the previous teams accomplished that feat, but if this brief history is any guide, next year's team should at least be something special.

  5. #2805
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    We have a huge squad. Been a long time since we had that much size.

    Possibly since the Bagley/Carter team? Zoubek/Lance and co?

    The 2018 team had Bagley, Carter, DeLaurier, Bolden, Vrankovic and Robinson, with Allen and Trent on the wings. A 6-8 small forward would have made that team bigger.

    The 2017 team had Jeter and Jefferson but did not have Bagley and Carter. Matt Jones on the wing instead of Gary Trent.

    So, in terms of just sheer size, 2018 over 2017 by a silly centimeter.

    The 2010 team had Zoubek, Plumlee, Plumlee, Kelly and a pair of 6-8 forwards, Singler and Thomas.

    The 2001 team started (for most of the season) 6-9 Boozer, 6-8 Battier, 6-9 Dunleavy and 6-6 James, with Sanders and Christensen on the bench. Horvath was an injury redshirt that season. That's about as much size on the wing as Duke has started.

    Let's not forget 1989 when it comes to size. Danny Ferry, Alaa Abdelnaby, Christian Laetter, Clay Buckley, Crawford Palmer, George Burgin and John Smith, seven players 6-8 or taller, with three 6-10 or taller players who would be first-round NBA draft picks.

  6. #2806
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    What you say is all true. But what I think is interesting about next year's team is the combination of top-shelf freshmen and top 25 returnees.

    We will have three top 25 returnees (#25 Moore, #20 Roach, #25 Williams) and two top 15 freshmen (Banchero, Griffin). How many times in the past 25 years has that combination (at least three top 25 returnees and at least two top 15 freshmen) occurred? I'm glad you asked. Three.

    1998: It's hard to know for sure how many top 25 returnees we had in 1997-98 (no RSCI yet), but among Langdon, Price, Domzalski, Chappell, Wojo, Carrawell, James, and McLeod, we had to have had at least three. And we had three top 15 freshmen in Brand, Battier, and Burgess. This team went 15-1 in the ACC, lost in the ACC title game, and had an 18-point lead in the Elite Eight but failed to close out the game with the Final Four on the line.

    2006: The 2006 team had four top 25 returnees (S Williams, Redick, Nelson, and Dockery) and two top 15 freshmen (McRoberts, Paulus). This team went 14-2 in the ACC, won the ACC tournament, and if we hadn't run into the LSU buzzsaw in the Sweet 16 might have gone down as one of the all-time Duke greats. But like 1998, we weren't able to get to the Final Four.

    2017: The 2017 team had four top 25 returnees (Allen, Kennard, Jefferson, Jeter) and four top 15 freshmen (Giles, Tatum, Bolden, and Jackson). If not for injuries, what a team this would have been. Like 2006, we won the ACC tournament but ran into a white-hot SEC team in the NCAAT and the Final Four was not to be.


    But that's it. It's not so much that we won't be relying on freshmen, but the combination of returning and incoming talent is pretty rare, even for Duke. Obviously it's no Final Four guarantee, as none of the previous teams accomplished that feat, but if this brief history is any guide, next year's team should at least be something special.

    With respect, in 2006, LSU wasn't remotely a buzzsaw. They didn't even play well, we just played worse.

    They shot 39.3% from the floor (28.6% from 3) which is bad.

    We shot 27.7% (19.2% from 3). Beyond putrid.

    Redick was 3-18 from the floor. As spectacular as he was that year, we just couldn't overcome how terribly he shot in that game.

    And it remains one of the ugliest games I've ever seen. Yes, LSU was athletic, but defense was not the reason for that horrendous display of offense.

  7. #2807
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    What you say is all true. But what I think is interesting about next year's team is the combination of top-shelf freshmen and top 25 returnees.

    We will have three top 25 returnees (#25 Moore, #20 Roach, #25 Williams) and two top 15 freshmen (Banchero, Griffin). How many times in the past 25 years has that combination (at least three top 25 returnees and at least two top 15 freshmen) occurred? I'm glad you asked. Three.

    1998: It's hard to know for sure how many top 25 returnees we had in 1997-98 (no RSCI yet), but among Langdon, Price, Domzalski, Chappell, Wojo, Carrawell, James, and McLeod, we had to have had at least three. And we had three top 15 freshmen in Brand, Battier, and Burgess. This team went 15-1 in the ACC, lost in the ACC title game, and had an 18-point lead in the Elite Eight but failed to close out the game with the Final Four on the line.

    2006: The 2006 team had four top 25 returnees (S Williams, Redick, Nelson, and Dockery) and two top 15 freshmen (McRoberts, Paulus). This team went 14-2 in the ACC, won the ACC tournament, and if we hadn't run into the LSU buzzsaw in the Sweet 16 might have gone down as one of the all-time Duke greats. But like 1998, we weren't able to get to the Final Four.

    2017: The 2017 team had four top 25 returnees (Allen, Kennard, Jefferson, Jeter) and four top 15 freshmen (Giles, Tatum, Bolden, and Jackson). If not for injuries, what a team this would have been. Like 2006, we won the ACC tournament but ran into a white-hot SEC team in the NCAAT and the Final Four was not to be.


    But that's it. It's not so much that we won't be relying on freshmen, but the combination of returning and incoming talent is pretty rare, even for Duke. Obviously it's no Final Four guarantee, as none of the previous teams accomplished that feat, but if this brief history is any guide, next year's team should at least be something special.
    Good analysis, but the college basketball landscape has changed a lot in recent years, so that there far fewer top 25 returnees on any team. Accordingly, I'm going to be very optimistic that the 2021-22 Devils are going further than any of those teams.

  8. #2808
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rent free in tarheels’ heads
    In case anyone didn’t see, Nolan Hickman to Gonzaga. They’re pretty stacked.

    https://twitter.com/nolanhickman2/st...016971776?s=21
    “Coach said no 3s.” - Zion on The Block

  9. #2809
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    In case anyone didn’t see, Nolan Hickman to Gonzaga. They’re pretty stacked.

    https://twitter.com/nolanhickman2/st...016971776?s=21
    That was where I expected him to go when he recommitted. Big get for them. Wallis and Hickman more or less offset the losses of Ayayi and Suggs. And of course they add Holmgren in the frontcourt.

  10. #2810
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Jaden Hardy has yet to make the announcement (within the hour, I think), but Shams Charania reporting that he'll sign a pro deal with the G-League.

    I believe this was the last Top 50 decision. We could probably end the 2021 recruiting thread here, over 2800 replies, almost 3 years, and full circle after the very first post:

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Time to open a new thread! Duke has extended it's first offer to a member of the Class of 2021.

    Patrick Baldwin, Jr., is a 6'8" forward from Sussex, Wisconsin. He has recently ranked among the highest members of his recruiting class with ESPN giving him the early slot for #1 recruit in his class of rising sophomore. Baldwin has size, shooting, athleticism, passing, quickness, and all the other traits you would want out of a forward. If he fills out his growing frame, he could be a modern stretch 4 or operate as a facilitator and scorer from the wings. The kid has the full package and could develop into an exceptional talent.

  11. #2811
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Jaden Hardy has yet to make the announcement (within the hour, I think), but Shams Charania reporting that he'll sign a pro deal with the G-League.

    I believe this was the last Top 50 decision. We could probably end the 2021 recruiting thread here, over 2800 replies, almost 3 years, and full circle after the very first post:
    Wow, that's a wrap! I happened to look at the 247 site you linked for Duke's "All-Time" recruits and noticed we've had 1 player in history (well, the "247 era" since 2003?) rated a perfect 1.0000 (yes, four decimals).



    ...

    Mr. RJ Barrett. Anybody know how many 1.0000 rated recruits there have been? Chet Holgrem did get that rating this year. We've had 10 other #1 or #2 ranked recruits. Bagley was oh so close at 0.9999 and McBob at 0.9998. I assume this is fairly "fake precision" or does it actually have some meaning? I assume it's to compare across years but four decimal points really? Would have been nice to see Shaun Livingston suit up.


    Here's the link:
    https://247sports.com/college/duke/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits/

  12. #2812
    Quote Originally Posted by bullettoothtony View Post
    With respect, in 2006, LSU wasn't remotely a buzzsaw. They didn't even play well, we just played worse.

    They shot 39.3% from the floor (28.6% from 3) which is bad.

    We shot 27.7% (19.2% from 3). Beyond putrid.

    Redick was 3-18 from the floor. As spectacular as he was that year, we just couldn't overcome how terribly he shot in that game.

    And it remains one of the ugliest games I've ever seen. Yes, LSU was athletic, but defense was not the reason for that horrendous display of offense.
    Agree. I was so excited to have finagled skybox tickets in the Georgia Dome that year only to watch Durant vs LSU instead of Duke.

  13. #2813
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    I think comparing this team to 2017-18 is an interesting exercise. That team started four future solid NBA players in Allen, Carter, Bagley and Trent, so much talent, but couldn’t quite break the FF barrier - highlights the challenge to get there with so much youth.

    The young Bagley/Carter twin towers led us to play a lot of zone defense late in the year. Again this year?

    That team was a respectable 37% from 3 with most of the volume coming from Trent and Allen. I would be thrilled if this team hit that number but I think Roach and Moore will need to be volume shooters and likely will be more in that 32-35% range. Hope I’m wrong. If we shoot 37%, it will be Keels and Baker getting volume looks at 40%+.

    I do think one spot where this team can outshine that team is ironically the spot many of us are concerned about. I’ll take a soph Roach over a frosh Duval to run the team.
    You're going to give me nightmares with the thought of Moore as a volume shooter. Please God no.

  14. #2814
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Devil View Post
    You're going to give me nightmares with the thought of Moore as a volume shooter. Please God no.
    I think my first post in 2019 chat may have been “Less Moore please” but he’s come a long way. While I don’t want Wendell to play like Tatum or I Barrett (a lot of times I didn’t want Jason and RJ to play that way) but someone is going to have to initiate half court offense so I hope that is a step Wendell is ready to take. He did show the ability to penetrate and find open guys some last year but there’s still room for improvement in his decision making.

  15. #2815
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Agree. I was so excited to have finagled skybox tickets in the Georgia Dome that year only to watch Durant vs LSU instead of Duke.
    Umm, Kevin Durant was in high school in 2006. Perhaps you mean Aldridge?

  16. #2816
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I think my first post in 2019 chat may have been “Less Moore please” but he’s come a long way. While I don’t want Wendell to play like Tatum or I Barrett (a lot of times I didn’t want Jason and RJ to play that way) but someone is going to have to initiate half court offense so I hope that is a step Wendell is ready to take. He did show the ability to penetrate and find open guys some last year but there’s still room for improvement in his decision making.
    It would be great if Wendell were able to play like Tatum or Barrett. I don't expect that he's improved that much.

  17. #2817
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Umm, Kevin Durant was in high school in 2006. Perhaps you mean Aldridge?
    Perhaps. I just remember being bummed Duke lost and taking it out on the open bar provided by my friend’s generous employer.

  18. #2818
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Perhaps. I just remember being bummed Duke lost and taking it out on the open bar provided by my friend’s generous employer.
    They wish they had Durant - Aldridge had a horrible game.

  19. #2819
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Perhaps. I just remember being bummed Duke lost and taking it out on the open bar provided by my friend’s generous employer.
    Perhaps?

    Gee, if only there was some way to confirm Durant's absence.


    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ana-state.html

  20. #2820
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    It would be great if Wendell were able to play like Tatum or Barrett. I don't expect that he's improved that much.
    I think the aspirational model for Wendell is Justise Winslow. Justise was a coast-to-coast threat with the ball in his hands. Their builds' are the same, and I would like to see Wendell develop some of the same skills.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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