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  1. #2481
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I dunno, CDu. I don't want to pick a fight with someone so formidable (French pronunciation, please). I see Joey as the heart and soul of the team -- a real warrior -- and he's gonna get some burn. He and maybe Wendell are probably the only players who know how to communicate like K wants. Then, if he gets hot from three, he may become a fixture in the lineup.
    How do you define "real warrior"? I don't see that at all. I see a defender who tries really hard but has very mixed results (he was basically neutral in terms of impact as a defender last year, according to advanced stats). I see an offensive player who wasn't ready to shoot a lot of the time and, when he did, had overall negative results (last year's offensive advanced metrics are awful).

    Don't get me wrong, I want Joey on the team next year. But if he doesn't improve (and note he regressed sophomore to junior year), then he's easily out of the rotation.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  2. #2482
    Keels and Roach played on the same HS team against the same level of competition. It is interesting, strange, that Roach averaged 2.8 assists and Keels averaged 7.2 assists in their respective senior years.

    Don’t want to read too much into that but it seems that Keels has some great passing skills alongside outstanding scoring skills. Could Keels turn out to be more of a playmaker right away than we are expecting?

  3. #2483
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Keels and Roach played on the same HS team against the same level of competition. It is interesting, strange, that Roach averaged 2.8 assists and Keels averaged 7.2 assists in their respective senior years.

    Don’t want to read too much into that but it seems that Keels has some great passing skills alongside outstanding scoring skills. Could Keels turn out to be more of a playmaker right away than we are expecting?
    Keels higher school numbers are better than Jalen Suggs across the board. Maybe lack of good competition? I'm not sure how good of a program St Paul is.

  4. #2484
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Keels and Roach played on the same HS team against the same level of competition. It is interesting, strange, that Roach averaged 2.8 assists and Keels averaged 7.2 assists in their respective senior years.

    Don’t want to read too much into that but it seems that Keels has some great passing skills alongside outstanding scoring skills. Could Keels turn out to be more of a playmaker right away than we are expecting?
    One player on that Paul VI team not being discussed here is Dug McDaniel. The rising senior took over primary PG responsibility in 2019-20 while Jeremy Roach returned from his injury. He led the Paul VI team in assists during Jeremy's senior season. I don't think we should read into Roach's stat line too much. McDaniel, a short and blazingly fast guard, is a top 75 or so prospect in his own right with many high major D1 offers. We have seen Roach play at Duke. He's a scoring guard who can handle the point guard position. I expect he will improve in that role after getting a normal offseason. This will be the first offseason in 3 years where Jeremy Roach can focus on improving between seasons. Let's see what happens.

  5. #2485
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Goduke page says this about Keels.
    "Averaged 28.7 points, 9.1 rebounds, 7.2 assists and 3.8 steals per contest while recording six triple-doubles his senior season"

    Compared to Roach:
    "Averaged 19.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists and 1.9 steals per game as a senior and guided St. Paul VI HS to the VISAA D-I State Championship"

    His numbers look more similar to Tre Jones's:
    "Averaged 20.4 points, 5.3 rebounds and 7.3 assists on the Nike EYBL circuit in 2017 for the Howard Pulley AAU program
    Averaged 23.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 7.5 assists for Apple Valley during the 2016-17 season"
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Keels and Roach played on the same HS team against the same level of competition. It is interesting, strange, that Roach averaged 2.8 assists and Keels averaged 7.2 assists in their respective senior years.

    Don’t want to read too much into that but it seems that Keels has some great passing skills alongside outstanding scoring skills. Could Keels turn out to be more of a playmaker right away than we are expecting?
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    One player on that Paul VI team not being discussed here is Dug McDaniel. The rising senior took over primary PG responsibility in 2019-20 while Jeremy Roach returned from his injury. He led the Paul VI team in assists during Jeremy's senior season. I don't think we should read into Roach's stat line too much. McDaniel, a short and blazingly fast guard, is a top 75 or so prospect in his own right with many high major D1 offers. We have seen Roach play at Duke. He's a scoring guard who can handle the point guard position. I expect he will improve in that role after getting a normal offseason. This will be the first offseason in 3 years where Jeremy Roach can focus on improving between seasons. Let's see what happens.
    Was just going to say something similar. Roach's stats as a senior were obtained playing alongside McDaniel (a top-60 PG and very much a "pure" PG) AND Keels in the backcourt. And he was just returning from a torn ACL as a sophomore. Those two things almost certainly deflated both his points and assists. This past year, Keels shared the backcourt with just McDaniel in terms of major prospects.

    It's quite possible that Keels turns out better than Roach. But I wouldn't base it on each player's senior-year stats, as they were accumulated in very different circumstances.

  6. #2486
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Keels and Roach played on the same HS team against the same level of competition. It is interesting, strange, that Roach averaged 2.8 assists and Keels averaged 7.2 assists in their respective senior years.

    Don’t want to read too much into that but it seems that Keels has some great passing skills alongside outstanding scoring skills. Could Keels turn out to be more of a playmaker right away than we are expecting?
    When they were both on the team, it sounds like Trevor usually had the ball and initiated the offense.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  7. #2487
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Keels higher school numbers are better than Jalen Suggs across the board. Maybe lack of good competition? I'm not sure how good of a program St Paul is.
    St. Paul VI (PVI) is an elite national level program that is annually ranked near the top of the HS Basketball Rankings. They compete in the WCAC, which is made up of private athletic powerhouses in Northern VA, Southern MD, and DC and arguably the best High School Basketball Conference in the country. Some Duke players produced by the WCAC include: Danny Ferry, Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton, Jeremy Roach, and Trevor Keels off the top of my head. PVI travels to play many of the best teams across the country and generally does quite well in those match-ups.

  8. #2488
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    When they were both on the team, it sounds like Trevor usually had the ball and initiated the offense.
    Why isn’t Keels projected as a point guard? That’s likely where he may have to play if he makes it to the NBA.

  9. #2489
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    When they were both on the team, it sounds like Trevor usually had the ball and initiated the offense.
    No, when they were both on the team, Dug McDaniel was the guy initiating the offense and both Keels and Roach focused on scoring. We don't have Keels' junior-year stats, but I'd guess his assist numbers were much lower than they were as a senior when it was just him and McDaniel in the backcourt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Why isn’t Keels projected as a point guard? That’s likely where he may have to play if he makes it to the NBA.
    Keels is 6'5", 210lb, and his NBA position is almost certainly SG. If not an undersized SF.

  10. #2490
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Keels is 6'5", 210lb, and his NBA position is almost certainly SG. If not an undersized SF.
    No disagreement, and clearly most of the discussion on this board has focused on Trevor as a SG, and what he brings to the team from that perspective. But worth noting that most recruiting sites list him as a combo guard, as did the Duke press release upon his commitment. So we may be underestimating his ball handling and passing skills somewhat.

  11. #2491
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Why isn’t Keels projected as a point guard? That’s likely where he may have to play if he makes it to the NBA.
    I don't think Keels has the lateral quickness to play PG in the NBA.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  12. #2492
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIE V(A) View Post
    St. Paul VI (PVI) is an elite national level program that is annually ranked near the top of the HS Basketball Rankings. They compete in the WCAC, which is made up of private athletic powerhouses in Northern VA, Southern MD, and DC and arguably the best High School Basketball Conference in the country. Some Duke players produced by the WCAC include: Danny Ferry, Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton, Jeremy Roach, and Trevor Keels off the top of my head. PVI travels to play many of the best teams across the country and generally does quite well in those match-ups.
    In a normal year this is true, but WCAC and PVI played a very limited schedule in 2021 due to COVID, so it’s hard to compare Keels’s (apostrophe s debate) 2021 with Roach’s 2020 seasons.

  13. #2493
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Great Falls Va + Avalon NJ
    Baldwin’s Twitter posted “The Pick Is In” half an hour ago. Could be his final decision, could be tied to the NFL draft, but it could be an interesting afternoon.

  14. #2494
    Quote Originally Posted by Utley View Post
    Baldwin’s Twitter posted “The Pick Is In” half an hour ago. Could be his final decision, could be tied to the NFL draft, but it could be an interesting afternoon.
    I just checked Patrick Baldwin, Jr's Twitter feed, and his most recent post appeared to be from last Thursday. Maybe he has already deleted the post you saw?

  15. #2495
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I just checked Patrick Baldwin, Jr's Twitter feed, and his most recent post appeared to be from last Thursday. Maybe he has already deleted the post you saw?
    Also of note (or maybe totally irrelevant), one of the 247 analysts, Travis Branham, just posted a Crystal Ball pick for Baldwin to UW-Milwaukee.

  16. #2496
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I just checked Patrick Baldwin, Jr's Twitter feed, and his most recent post appeared to be from last Thursday. Maybe he has already deleted the post you saw?
    Referring to Baldwin's banner. "Pick is in!" is the new background.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  17. #2497
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Referring to Baldwin's banner. "Pick is in!" is the new background.
    He's had that background for weeks. It wasn't changed recently.

    The news that Travis Branham from 247Sports put in a crystal ball selection for Milwaukee is interesting. The Duke insiders, or at least 2 of them, recently put in picks for Duke and then increased their confidence level. There's another Duke insider, Adam Rowe, and he hasn't changed his pick for Milwaukee. There's conflicting information out there. The news for Trevor Keels late was all towards Duke. This one is not pulling in the same direction. I suppose we'll find out eventually.

  18. #2498
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Also of note (or maybe totally irrelevant), one of the 247 analysts, Travis Branham, just posted a Crystal Ball pick for Baldwin to UW-Milwaukee.
    Nice. I'm of the opinion that our roster is perfectly set for next season and any new addition, unless we're talking about Zion, is bound to have diminishing returns.

  19. #2499
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    He's had that background for weeks. It wasn't changed recently.

    The news that Travis Branham from 247Sports put in a crystal ball selection for Milwaukee is interesting. The Duke insiders, or at least 2 of them, recently put in picks for Duke and then increased their confidence level. There's another Duke insider, Adam Rowe, and he hasn't changed his pick for Milwaukee. There's conflicting information out there. The news for Trevor Keels late was all towards Duke. This one is not pulling in the same direction. I suppose we'll find out eventually.
    Gotcha. I clearly don't follow their twitters closely enough
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  20. #2500
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Sorting through all this. From today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Utley View Post
    Baldwin’s Twitter posted “The Pick Is In” half an hour ago. Could be his final decision, could be tied to the NFL draft, but it could be an interesting afternoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Referring to Baldwin's banner. "Pick is in!" is the new background.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    He's had that background for weeks. It wasn't changed recently...
    From April 5 (almost a month ago):

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Patrick Baldwin's twitter says "the pick is in" and Tipton Edits (which produces announcement videos for many top players) says a 5 star player will make his announcement tomorrow...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    It’s been noted that “the pick is in” has been his header for a while now. Apparently not a new thing.
    So it's been there for more than a month. Calm down.

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