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  1. #2221
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    There is quite a lot of malicious speculation about the motivation behind PBJ's decision. Maybe he just wants to play for his father wherever his father ends up.

    This seems to work for the Boeheim's and no one is thinking that the Buddy and Jimmy are both at Syracuse so that their dad can get a better contract.
    I'll take False Equivalencies for $500, Alex. I mean Aaron.

    Seriously you think those are remotely similar situations? Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse for over 40 years, has over 1000 wins and is a Hall of Famer already. He had lifetime job security long before Buddy Boeheim came around. And Buddy was anything but an elite high school player anyway.

    Coach Baldwin is at his first college coaching gig, at a mid major, has been there four years, and has won 40% of his games. It's not a surprise he'd be on thin ice. And his son, on the other hand, is a consensus top 5, OAD recruit.

    Neither the coaches nor the players are in the same universe as the other. Therefore, the situations are completely dissimilar. I'm not saying the coaching/job security issue is driving PBJ's decisionmaking and its timing. But it would make sense if they are trying to leverage PBJ's talent into some job security for papa.

  2. #2222
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    From the looks of this video, Banchero is going to be our point guard. Hey, it works for Zion!

    https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/sta...997338625?s=20

  3. #2223
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I'll take False Equivalencies for $500, Alex. I mean Aaron.

    Seriously you think those are remotely similar situations? Jim Boeheim has been at Syracuse for over 40 years, has over 1000 wins and is a Hall of Famer already. He had lifetime job security long before Buddy Boeheim came around. And Buddy was anything but an elite high school player anyway.

    Coach Baldwin is at his first college coaching gig, at a mid major, has been there four years, and has won 40% of his games. It's not a surprise he'd be on thin ice. And his son, on the other hand, is a consensus top 5, OAD recruit.

    Neither the coaches nor the players are in the same universe as the other. Therefore, the situations are completely dissimilar. I'm not saying the coaching/job security issue is driving PBJ's decisionmaking and its timing. But it would make sense if they are trying to leverage PBJ's talent into some job security for papa.
    It would make sense only if the premise was some malicious intent.

    I could comment that it makes sense that Jim Boeheim is retiring next year because all of his son's have transferred to Syracuse to play for him before he retires.

    No one in the Boeheim camp has suggested this just as no one in the PBJ camp has suggested PBJ is using his playing ability as leverage for a new contract for his dad. Both are malicious speculation.

  4. #2224
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    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    It would make sense only if the premise was some malicious intent.

    I could comment that it makes sense that Jim Boeheim is retiring next year because all of his son's have transferred to Syracuse to play for him before he retires.

    No one in the Boeheim camp has suggested this just as no one in the PBJ camp has suggested PBJ is using his playing ability as leverage for a new contract for his dad. Both are malicious speculation.
    I don't think "malicious" is the right word to describe these situations, particularly Boeheim. What is harmful about any of the speculation above about Boeheim? I don't see anything negative at all about it. With enough mental gymnastics one could perhaps assume something slightly negative about Baldwin's scenario, but that is still a stretch.

    If anything, it is malicious to call this malicious.

  5. #2225
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddylawman View Post
    Folks here have losttheir collective minds. Williams is a future serviceable NBA player, Holmgren is a future All-Star
    Right. I wouldn’t characterize what’s being speculated about re PBJ’s potential recruiting strategy as “malicious.” I’d say “savvy,” and “wise” are much more apt.

  6. #2226
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA

    New ESPN rankings

    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...021/order/true

    Duke and potential Duke guys:

    3. Banchero
    4. Baldwin
    21. Keels
    27. Griffin
    89. Blakes

    Observations:

    -Griffin's ranking has slid from top 8 to 27 in less than 12 months. Not playing competitive ball at all in 2021 is a huge factor in that. But that can't really be all. The same thing happened to Jalen Johnson, and he ended up at around ~#13.
    -Keels dropped a few spots
    -Blakes is not solidly in the top 100. Love the improvement, and he may be better than his ranking indicates
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #2227
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...021/order/true

    Duke and potential Duke guys:

    3. Banchero
    4. Baldwin
    21. Keels
    27. Griffin
    89. Blakes

    Observations:

    -Griffin's ranking has slid from top 8 to 27 in less than 12 months. Not playing competitive ball at all in 2021 is a huge factor in that. But that can't really be all. The same thing happened to Jalen Johnson, and he ended up at around ~#13.
    -Keels dropped a few spots
    -Blakes is not solidly in the top 100. Love the improvement, and he may be better than his ranking indicates
    I assume that the bolded was a typo and you meant "now"? If so, agreed, and similarly optimistic about him. From all reports he was a "late riser" who bet on himself and his ability to get a top-tier offer in the spring rather that commit early in the fall. I think that's the type of attitude we want in a Duke uniform, especially with some of the statements about fighting for your spot that have been batted around in the Coleman transfer thread.

    Best case scenario, Blakes ends up somewhere between Tyler Thornton/Jordan Goldwire (the nearest Duke comparisons we've been looking at) and a guy like Matt Coleman, a 4* recruit (albeit higher in the rankings) who stuck around 4 years and became a major contributor. If Blakes has a TT/JG career I'd be ecstatic, but I think his ceiling is significantly higher than that.

    At the risk of going into a minutes convo, I would not be surprised if Blakes ends up getting ~5 mpg, even in ACC season, as Jeremy's primary backup. I think his pedigree means he can earn those minutes and it means we don't have to worry about Wendell or someone else sliding over to the point.
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  8. #2228
    AJ Griffin was a consensus top 10 kid not even 9 months ago. He's not the 27th ranked recruit in the country. You can say that he didn't play and other guys opened eyes. Patrick Baldwin, Jr. hardly played and was injured over the last year. It's a ridiculous ranking. I hope he uses this as motivation.

  9. #2229
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I assume that the bolded was a typo and you meant "now"? If so, agreed, and similarly optimistic about him. From all reports he was a "late riser" who bet on himself and his ability to get a top-tier offer in the spring rather that commit early in the fall. I think that's the type of attitude we want in a Duke uniform, especially with some of the statements about fighting for your spot that have been batted around in the Coleman transfer thread.

    Best case scenario, Blakes ends up somewhere between Tyler Thornton/Jordan Goldwire (the nearest Duke comparisons we've been looking at) and a guy like Matt Coleman, a 4* recruit (albeit higher in the rankings) who stuck around 4 years and became a major contributor. If Blakes has a TT/JG career I'd be ecstatic, but I think his ceiling is significantly higher than that.

    At the risk of going into a minutes convo, I would not be surprised if Blakes ends up getting ~5 mpg, even in ACC season, as Jeremy's primary backup. I think his pedigree means he can earn those minutes and it means we don't have to worry about Wendell or someone else sliding over to the point.
    Yup. Meant now.

    For me, Blakes' minutes will be entirely dependent on what Roach can handle and how frequently Roach gets into foul trouble. For comparison, Tre Jones averaged 36.0 minutes in ACC play as a sophomore. I could absolutely see Roach doing the same (not suggesting Roach is the second coming of Tre but rather he will get all the minutes he can handle).

    I don't think Blakes will be a "true" rotation player as a freshman but rather a player who is forced to play due to injury/foul trouble/need to relieve a player for a few spot minutes.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  10. #2230
    Join Date
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    AJ Griffin was a consensus top 10 kid not even 9 months ago. He's not the 27th ranked recruit in the country. You can say that he didn't play and other guys opened eyes. Patrick Baldwin, Jr. hardly played and was injured over the last year. It's a ridiculous ranking. I hope he uses this as motivation.
    I agree the ranking is strange and cannot be explained merely through lack of playing.

    From everything I've read, scouts love his body and upside but he's fairly unpolished (which is strange given his dad and the resources he has access to) and lacks motor.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #2231
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    AJ Griffin was a consensus top 10 kid not even 9 months ago. He's not the 27th ranked recruit in the country. You can say that he didn't play and other guys opened eyes. Patrick Baldwin, Jr. hardly played and was injured over the last year. It's a ridiculous ranking. I hope he uses this as motivation.
    What a hilarious ranking for Griffin. There's a reason Jonathan Givony has him mocked #6 in the 2022 draft. He is an absolute beast. Sure, he hasn't been playing in competitive games, but he's been with his dad (Raptors assistant), and training with the team down in Tampa. Not a bad way to spend your time getting better.

    I, too, hope he uses this as motivation. Let's go AJ!

  12. #2232
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    AJ Griffin was a consensus top 10 kid not even 9 months ago. He's not the 27th ranked recruit in the country. You can say that he didn't play and other guys opened eyes. Patrick Baldwin, Jr. hardly played and was injured over the last year. It's a ridiculous ranking. I hope he uses this as motivation.
    Yeah, ESPN is the worst of the recruiting rankings in general. From everything I've read and seen, I'd have really trouble believing that he is truly the #27 recruit. Everyone else seems to think he's a fringe top-10, so something in the 8-12 range makes sense, with variability up to 5-6 and down to ~15.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yup. Meant now.

    For me, Blakes' minutes will be entirely dependent on what Roach can handle and how frequently Roach gets into foul trouble. For comparison, Tre Jones averaged 36.0 minutes in ACC play as a sophomore. I could absolutely see Roach doing the same (not suggesting Roach is the second coming of Tre but rather he will get all the minutes he can handle).

    I don't think Blakes will be a "true" rotation player as a freshman but rather a player who is forced to play due to injury/foul trouble/need to relieve a player for a few spot minutes.
    I mostly agree with this, with the caveat that Blakes might wind up seeing a bit of time at SG if (a) his shooting is as reported and (b) we find that we need more shooting. Given his size and length, he would seem well-suited to play SG if needed.

    But yeah, anything more than 6-8 mpg for Blakes next year would be a real surprise for me, barring injury or something else unforeseen.

  13. #2233
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I agree the ranking is strange and cannot be explained merely through lack of playing.

    From everything I've read, scouts love his body and upside but he's fairly unpolished (which is strange given his dad and the resources he has access to) and lacks motor.
    I agree - of all kids, AJ is one who probably didn't suffer from sitting out the year. His dad played in the NBA and is now an NBA assistant. His older brother and sister play for major D1 teams, so if they were home last summer he probably had some pretty good driveway games. And he committed early so I'm sure that to the extent possible, the Duke staff was telling him what he needs to work on. Yes, game experience is extremely valuable. But I'm guessing that AJ hasn't spent the last year sitting on the couch eating Cheetos and playing video games.

  14. #2234
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I agree - of all kids, AJ is one who probably didn't suffer from sitting out the year. His dad played in the NBA and is now an NBA assistant. His older brother and sister play for major D1 teams, so if they were home last summer he probably had some pretty good driveway games. And he committed early so I'm sure that to the extent possible, the Duke staff was telling him what he needs to work on. Yes, game experience is extremely valuable. But I'm guessing that AJ hasn't spent the last year sitting on the couch eating Cheetos and playing video games.
    Duke coaches probably had him focus on a few key things for him to hit the ground running, and I'm optimistic summer ball with the team on campus will shake off most of the rust. Hope he worked on his shot, footwork, and strength and conditioning. AJ's father being an NBA coach and veteran player means that they had a good plan for AJ during his senior year opt-out and beyond for AJ to get to the show. And yeah, 1:1 games with his older brother probably helps. Remember that this was a kid that many thought would be a candidate for #1 pick in the 2022 draft. We may yet see that player come out.

  15. #2235
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Washington, DC
    It's really hard to care about any of this. Another bunch we'll never get to know.

  16. #2236
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    It's really hard to care about any of this. Another bunch we'll never get to know.
    Maybe best approach is to use the McCallie method of referring to each player by his number. Don’t have to learn new names every year.

  17. #2237
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Yup. Meant now.

    For me, Blakes' minutes will be entirely dependent on what Roach can handle and how frequently Roach gets into foul trouble. For comparison, Tre Jones averaged 36.0 minutes in ACC play as a sophomore. I could absolutely see Roach doing the same (not suggesting Roach is the second coming of Tre but rather he will get all the minutes he can handle).

    I don't think Blakes will be a "true" rotation player as a freshman but rather a player who is forced to play due to injury/foul trouble/need to relieve a player for a few spot minutes.
    I'd think that if Blakes shows some real defensive skill in the man-to-man, he'll earn some time.

  18. #2238
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill

    This

    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    It's really hard to care about any of this. Another bunch we'll never get to know.
    This times 1000
    GTHC

  19. #2239
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I agree the ranking is strange and cannot be explained merely through lack of playing.

    From everything I've read, scouts love his body and upside but he's fairly unpolished (which is strange given his dad and the resources he has access to) and lacks motor.
    Please tell me this is not a thing with AJ. I have been extremely underwhelmed with Duke's recent recruits that had motor questions. I have high hopes for AJ.

  20. #2240
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    It's really hard to care about any of this. Another bunch we'll never get to know.
    This hits on something that the NCAA, coaches and experts are failing to account for as they see a new model for college basketball. What drives the billion dollar business are fans that are passionate about the college game.

    If I want to watch the BEST players I will tune into NBA basketball. Some of the games are boring but there is no lack of athletic highlight plays.

    If I want to CARE about the games I tune into college basketball. I have teams that I care about since I or family members attended the schools (Duke, UVA, VT) or I grew up watching teams (Villanova, Penn, LaSalle, Drexel, St. Joe's).

    As GGLC or I start to lose the attachment to the teams because I do not know the players, we may just gravitate to watching the NBA.

    Yes the students will still go to games in Cameron but I will be interested to see how populated K-ville is as the college model changes.
    Families of players will still go to games but will other non-students go or will their entertainment dollar go to some other activity. I enjoyed watching the NCAA this year but there were some nice days where I went to play golf instead of analyzing my brackets.

    The NCAA and the college basketball industry may find out that the golden goose is less valuable unless they pay attention to the fans.

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