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  1. #2081
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hudson Valley
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Based on past DBR history with names, my biggest worry if we get this guy is how the DBR community will manage to deal with the "possessive s" at the end of his name - Blake's, Blakes', Blakes's
    It is clearly Blakes's - and I am willing to get into a ten post argument with anyone who says otherwise

  2. #2082
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tappan Zee Devil View Post
    It is clearly Blakes's - and I am willing to get into a ten post argument with anyone who says otherwise
    I've got your back.

  3. #2083
    Quote Originally Posted by dm9e24 View Post
    I am interested to hear why you think Blakes having a Jordon Goldwire career is being highly optimistic. Blakes looks to have better measurables, higher ranking and a strong high school program. He played for a great coach at Blair. Illinois, Virginia Tech and a number of other ACC programs have offered. I can't remember Jordan' offer list, but Blakes seems a little more P5 heavy.
    Duke has brought in a number of players outside the top 50 or so and very few of them became consistent starters. Think of players like David McClure, Martinas Pocius, Olek Czyz, Semi Ojeleye, Antonio Vrankovic, Alex O'Connell, and others. Goldwire is the outlier of this group, a player outside the top 50 (and even outside the top 100) that became a consistent rotation player and occasional starter. I don't think it's fair to set expectations at a guy that outperformed expectations like that. I would rather see what he looks like in game action against other Duke players and then opponents before declaring he's the next this or that. I am excited about adding what appears to be an upstanding young man to the team. It's just that we should temper our expectations a bit.

  4. #2084
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Based on past DBR history with names, my biggest worry if we get this guy is how the DBR community will manage to deal with the "possessive s" at the end of his name - Blake's, Blakes', Blakes's
    Quote Originally Posted by Tappan Zee Devil View Post
    It is clearly Blakes's - and I am willing to get into a ten post argument with anyone who says otherwise
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    I've got your back.
    I'm afraid it might be Sheldon
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  5. #2085
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Duke has brought in a number of players outside the top 50 or so and very few of them became consistent starters. Think of players like David McClure, Martinas Pocius, Olek Czyz, Semi Ojeleye, Antonio Vrankovic, Alex O'Connell, and others. Goldwire is the outlier of this group, a player outside the top 50 (and even outside the top 100) that became a consistent rotation player and occasional starter. I don't think it's fair to set expectations at a guy that outperformed expectations like that. I would rather see what he looks like in game action against other Duke players and then opponents before declaring he's the next this or that. I am excited about adding what appears to be an upstanding young man to the team. It's just that we should temper our expectations a bit.
    McClure started 1/3rd of Duke's games his junior year and averaged more than 20 minutes per game. Now, that was a fairly weak Duke team by historical standards but he was a more significant player than the others you listed.

    And I notice you left out fellow non-top 50 prospects like Miles Plumlee (58 starts), Seth Curry (86 starts), Tyler Thornton (53 starts), and Marshall Plumlee (36 starts). As I look back at Duke rosters, there aren't many non-top 50 recruits to be found but it seems about half end up playing only a minor role for the team and about half end up playing a reasonably significant one, often ending up as a fairly consistent starter in their junior and senior seasons (Jack White probably belongs somewhere in this conversation too).

    That is the expectation we should probably have for Jaylen Blakes... decent chance his career could go either way. And given the comments from his Blair coach about his leadership abilities, I suspect he would have a significant impact on the program whether he ends up being a major player in games or not.

    -Jason "will be interesting to see where Henry Coleman (#49 in the RSCI) will fall on this spectrum... I love that kid!" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #2086
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Duke has brought in a number of players outside the top 50 or so and very few of them became consistent starters. Think of players like David McClure, Martinas Pocius, Olek Czyz, Semi Ojeleye, Antonio Vrankovic, Alex O'Connell, and others. Goldwire is the outlier of this group, a player outside the top 50 (and even outside the top 100) that became a consistent rotation player and occasional starter. I don't think it's fair to set expectations at a guy that outperformed expectations like that. I would rather see what he looks like in game action against other Duke players and then opponents before declaring he's the next this or that. I am excited about adding what appears to be an upstanding young man to the team. It's just that we should temper our expectations a bit.
    And we loved and so wanted Antonio, Alex. Marty (who doesít foul) and the rest to succeed and be that guy that we root for and ride off into the sunset.

  7. #2087
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Duke has brought in a number of players outside the top 50 or so and very few of them became consistent starters. Think of players like David McClure, Martinas Pocius, Olek Czyz, Semi Ojeleye, Antonio Vrankovic, Alex O'Connell, and others. Goldwire is the outlier of this group, a player outside the top 50 (and even outside the top 100) that became a consistent rotation player and occasional starter. I don't think it's fair to set expectations at a guy that outperformed expectations like that. I would rather see what he looks like in game action against other Duke players and then opponents before declaring he's the next this or that. I am excited about adding what appears to be an upstanding young man to the team. It's just that we should temper our expectations a bit.
    Goldwire started in spite of being an offensive liability- because he delivered value as a ball handler and defender. He also had minimal competition, if were honest. The guys you listed were mostly wings or bigs who played behind all Americans and/or transferred out.

    I just donít think thereís a great comp for Blakes if we look at who Duke has signed in the past, except for maybe Tyler Thornton who I would argue was a bigger contributor than Goldwire (quick glance at Win Shares backs that up, 7.2 to 5.1 over their respective careers, though Iím admittedly not doing a deep dive).

    The hope, IMO, is that Blakes could step in if an injury happened (a la Thornton to a degree) and then develop into a solid contributor and leader as an upperclassman. The optimism I have for him is that heís more of a leader than any recent recruit Duke has gotten outside of the top 75ish, and that he seems more athletic than TT. So that leads me to hope that long term, he could exceed not only TT and Goldwire due to his upside, but also guys like AOC due to his patience and work ethic.

  8. #2088
    I forget which article I saw it in, but Blair's coach called him an exceptional shooter. In my mind, a point guard, that is an exceptional shooter, is going to find a way onto the floor at some point!

  9. #2089
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Count me in as extremely excited about the possibility of Blakes coming to Duke. You can never have enough intelligent, hard-working, high character players. Also, I am not one to get all caught up in ratings. Things will get played out on the court. If Blakes comes and earns playing time, he will play regardless of his player ranking. The best guys play at Duke. At a minimum, he seems like an excellent leader who will be a valuable practice player, represent Duke University well, and be an asset to the program. Based on his experience (at Blair Academy), attitude, and what I saw on video, I predict (if he comes) he will be a rotational player at some point in his Duke career. Bullish on Blakes!

  10. #2090
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jaywilliams22 View Post
    I forget which article I saw it in, but Blair's coach called him an exceptional shooter. In my mind, a point guard, that is an exceptional shooter, is going to find a way onto the floor at some point!
    We all see what you did there!

  11. #2091
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Based on past DBR history with names, my biggest worry if we get this guy is how the DBR community will manage to deal with the "possessive s" at the end of his name - Blake's, Blakes', Blakes's
    You missed "of Blakes"...

  12. #2092
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tappan Zee Devil View Post
    It is clearly Blakes's - and I am willing to get into a ten post argument with anyone who says otherwise
    This is definitely correct. I work with a physician whose last name is Sass. The possessive form is, of course, Sass's. That's THREE in a row! The apostrophe following the letter s is for plurals only. The Chicago Manual of Style allows the apostrophe alone for exceedingly famous figures such as Jesus, Moses, and Socrates. Given that Blakes is, as mentioned many times in the thread, ranked near 100 in his class would suggest that he might not walk on water or part the Red Sea.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  13. #2093
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    McClure started 1/3rd of Duke's games his junior year and averaged more than 20 minutes per game. Now, that was a fairly weak Duke team by historical standards but he was a more significant player than the others you listed.

    And I notice you left out fellow non-top 50 prospects like Miles Plumlee (58 starts), Seth Curry (86 starts), Tyler Thornton (53 starts), and Marshall Plumlee (36 starts). As I look back at Duke rosters, there aren't many non-top 50 recruits to be found but it seems about half end up playing only a minor role for the team and about half end up playing a reasonably significant one, often ending up as a fairly consistent starter in their junior and senior seasons (Jack White probably belongs somewhere in this conversation too).

    That is the expectation we should probably have for Jaylen Blakes... decent chance his career could go either way. And given the comments from his Blair coach about his leadership abilities, I suspect he would have a significant impact on the program whether he ends up being a major player in games or not.

    -Jason "will be interesting to see where Henry Coleman (#49 in the RSCI) will fall on this spectrum... I love that kid!" Evans
    I wasn't trying to create an exhaustive list of everyone outside of the top 50 or so. I just don't like the idea of saying "look at player X, this recruit is going to be just like player X!" Blakes will, should he play for Duke, be like all the others; he'll be his own person and type of player. I see a range of outcomes. My intent is to point out that expecting Blakes to be just like Jordan Goldwire is setting him up for failure. Maybe he lives up the expectations. Maybe not. Let's wish him he best but expect that it might take a few years to see where things go. I hope he wildly exceeds my and everyone's expectations. He certainly seems like the kind of kid I'd love to root for.

  14. #2094
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    This is definitely correct. I work with a physician whose last name is Sass. The possessive form is, of course, Sass's. That's THREE in a row! The apostrophe following the letter s is for plurals only. The Chicago Manual of Style allows the apostrophe alone for exceedingly famous figures such as Jesus, Moses, and Socrates. Given that Blakes is, as mentioned many times in the thread, ranked near 100 in his class would suggest that he might not walk on water or part the Red Sea.
    You mean he's not like this guy?


  15. #2095
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    This is definitely correct. I work with a physician whose last name is Sass. The possessive form is, of course, Sass's. That's THREE in a row! The apostrophe following the letter s is for plurals only. The Chicago Manual of Style allows the apostrophe alone for exceedingly famous figures such as Jesus, Moses, and Socrates. Given that Blakes is, as mentioned many times in the thread, ranked near 100 in his class would suggest that he might not walk on water or part the Red Sea.
    So to extrapolate, would the appropriate punctuation for this sentence be "Steve Blake (no s at the end) says 'Johnny Rockets's atmosphere makes me happy!'

  16. #2096
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I am not saying Jaylen Blakes is a diamond in the rough. He fits a need for Duke, a long-term backup guard that can spell the primary PG next season or possibly play alongside him in a small-ball backcourt. Not every player on Duke's roster is going to become a 1st round draft pick, after all. The roster needs role players. Blakes fits the bell (with some potential upside down the line). That being said, there seem to be a couple of obvious reasons why he (or anyone) wouldn't be ranked higher.

    A lot of players didn't play more than a handful of games this past season. Combine that with the cancellation of the summer circuit in 2020, and you have a situation where a bunch of late bloomers did not receive exposure. Or maybe they didn't bloom at all since they didn't get to play. Maybe Blakes isn't a late bloomer. Maybe he is. We don't know. In fact, a ton of high majors might not know since all they have on him is word of mouth from his coaches and whatever tape was out there from 2020 and prior. Meanwhile, there are some players that are rising up the rankings, like TyTy Washington. He has been able to play in showcase events and now has offers from Kentucky, UCLA, Texas, and many others. If there had been a normal season, maybe Washington is now a consensus top 10 or top 15 players in the Class of 2021. On the other hand, he might be rising because he's one of the few that did get exposure. It's all just a guess. There's a lot of fog.
    Yeah, my main point was he's either (a) a legitimate 100-ish guy, in which case we should keep our expectations low; OR (b) he's really underrated because COVID and we cannot expect him to be a patient, wait-your-turn practice player for at least two years. We can't have it both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by fgb View Post
    And while it would be amazing if he were to become another Jared Butler, I'll be thrilled if he "only" matures into our next Jordan Goldwire or Justin Robinson.
    And thrilled you should be. As DBA has argued, a Jordan Goldwire-like progression would be incredible. While it's possible this guy is the true "diamond in the rough," if he's really a 100-ish guy, the more likely Duke analog would be along the lines of Nick Horvath, Andre Sweet, or Andre Buckner. Even Nate Britt (#93 out of high school) would be better than we can reasonably expect.

    Quote Originally Posted by dm9e24 View Post
    I am interested to hear why you think Blakes having a Jordon Goldwire career is being highly optimistic. Blakes looks to have better measurables, higher ranking and a strong high school program. He played for a great coach at Blair. Illinois, Virginia Tech and a number of other ACC programs have offered. I can't remember Jordan' offer list, but Blakes seems a little more P5 heavy.
    Because Jordan Goldwire was, in fact, a "diamond in the rough." Is it possible Blakes is too? Sure. Is it likely? Not close. Saying that the guy is more highly regarded than Goldwire out of high school isn't the point. As I said in an earlier post, Andre Buckner may have been more highly regarded out of high school than Jordan Goldwire. Or put another way, twelve years ago, Derrick Williams of Arizona was the #100 recruit. He probably wasn't any more highly regarded out of high school than Jaylen Blakes. And yet two years later, he was the #2 pick in the NBA draft. Is it reasonable to think Blakes will be the #2 player in the draft in two years, or would that be highly optimistic? Same goes for Goldwire, it's just a matter of degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I mean, if you tell me there's a 30% chance this dude is an All-Conference player by the time he leaves, I'm doing cartwheels over this recruitment. Sign him up!!
    Don't worry, nobody will tell you that.

  17. #2097
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    This is definitely correct. I work with a physician whose last name is Sass. The possessive form is, of course, Sass's. That's THREE in a row! The apostrophe following the letter s is for plurals only. The Chicago Manual of Style allows the apostrophe alone for exceedingly famous figures such as Jesus, Moses, and Socrates. Given that Blakes is, as mentioned many times in the thread, ranked near 100 in his class would suggest that he might not walk on water or part the Red Sea.
    The biblical name rule is archaic and I hope it is dead and buried within a generation. There is nothing at all wrong with using Blakesí on a message board and IMO that is more defensible than applying different rules to prophets or guest stars from Bill and Tedís excellent adventure.
    Carolina delenda est

  18. #2098
    Now that Hurt is gone ... Can we get a Baldwin commit??

  19. #2099
    Quote Originally Posted by GGLC View Post
    I've got your back.
    Me too. More important,particularly to me, is that my wife, also a Duke alum, and a Grammar Policewman, agrees. (I did not submit this sentence to her punctuation approval.) She looked it up somewhere. I was sorry I asked, because I had to listen to some exceptions - Jesus, Sophocles etc.

  20. #2100
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlue666s View Post
    Now that Hurt is gone ... Can we get a Baldwin commit??
    Sure the commit will come but the issue is heís going to commit Milwaukee.

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