2021 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread

[English]

Did he discuss the fact that talents like Green and Kuminga could have gone to a high-profile college program and received significantly more exposure, therefore entering the NBA with higher name recognition and a better chance to garner endorsements and build the "brand" earlier?

He did mention that benefit of the college game, predominantly citing Jalen Suggs who was probably more of a back-half of the top ten projection until he exploded in college and is now a top-three pick. I think instead of Green and Kuminga, who were projected top-ten picks even out of HS, the better case studies would be guys like Daishen Nix or Isaiah Todd who weren't the top of the top recruits bound for lottery status coming out, and whether the G League did anything for their stock.

A couple of other salient points they mentioned (to my ear, at least) are:
1) NBA scouts and front office guys are NOT AT ALL excited about the prospect of getting back into high school gyms when the new CBA is negotiated and should the OAD rule be repealed;
2) Givony mentioned a couple of potential current Ignite recruiting targets outside the top-30 or top-40 prospects, which seems antithesis to the concept of this model, but may illustrate the difficulty they're finding landing the very best players (although Tommy is correct, they're determined to continue pursuing top talent, even after a college commitment as in the case of Nix who had committed to UCLA--Mick Cronin was publicly steamed about the way Rod Strickland went after Nix given his commitment);
3) The G League Ignite Team is not your typical G League team, in that these guys are not flying commercial (often with layovers in small airports), riding buses between closer cities and towns, etc. This team is catered to beyond your typical G League experience. This is not analogous to the experience someone like Quinn Cook or Tre Duval would have trying to make a NBA roster from the G League. The Ignite Team played a largely standard G League schedule this (Covid) year, but the plan was always and continues to be that the Ignite Team will be playing some G League competition, but also will be traveling abroad to play against international competition, scrimmages against national teams, etc.

[907bluedevils]

Yup. Far more people saw DJ Steward play this year than saw Jonathan Kuminga. Right now, Steward has much better name recognition than Jalen Green does (though Kuminga and Green will shoot up when they get picked in the first half of the lottery).

I'm going to disagree with this, Green has a large social media presence.

[tommy]

Did he discuss the fact that talents like Green and Kuminga could have gone to a high-profile college program and received significantly more exposure, therefore entering the NBA with higher name recognition and a better chance to garner endorsements and build the "brand" earlier?

No, and his point was kinda the opposite of that. While players who play at high profile college programs get more exposure to the public and the media, they get more exposure (or at least they did this year) to the people that matter -- NBA talent evaluators -- by playing in the G League. Showing what you've got every game against NBA-level or at least fringe NBA-level players demonstrates a lot more than playing college ball where in many games the opposing team doesn't have a single NBA-quality talent on the floor.

What I'm curious about is whether this preference on the part of the NBA talent evaluators was as much a matter of convenience for them as it was these other factors I've described. The G-League was played in a bubble this year, so all the action was concentrated geographically. Next year if the scouts have to travel to all these smaller towns where G league teams are based in order to see all this action, their enthusiasm may wane a bit. But even if they do have to travel, the reality that the competition is much stronger and therefore the ability to judge these players is enhanced, will not change.

Also, I'm a bit dubious of the endorsement/brand-building argument for playing a year in college. How many incoming rookies not named Zion Williamson have the kind of national name recognition necessary to sell sneakers or pizza or Gatorade before they've proven themselves in the NBA? Cade Cunningham? Evan Mobley? Scottie Barnes? Maybe Jalen Suggs? Maybe he's the only one from this year's group and I'm not so sure about him either.

He did mention that benefit of the college game, predominantly citing Jalen Suggs who was probably more of a back-half of the top ten projection until he exploded in college and is now a top-three pick. I think instead of Green and Kuminga, who were projected top-ten picks even out of HS, the better case studies would be guys like Daishen Nix or Isaiah Todd who weren't the top of the top recruits bound for lottery status coming out, and whether the G League did anything for their stock.

Yes while Nix and Todd were big-time recruits for UCLA and Michigan respectively, neither would have been drafted had they been eligible for last year's draft. By playing in the G league they are both now probable second rounders. It ain't lottery, but it's better than where they were. But still, that can be used as a counterargument too by those trying to get a kid to play in college rather than the G League. Playing in the G is no sure bet to lead to the lottery, or even the first round, no matter how highly you were rated in HS.

Far more people saw DJ Steward play this year than saw Jonathan Kuminga. Right now, Steward has much better name recognition than Jalen Green does (though Kuminga and Green will shoot up when they get picked in the first half of the lottery).

I disagree too. Nobody but the most die-hard college basketball fan could pick DJ Steward out of a lineup, or has ever heard his name.

[jimsumner]

I'm going to disagree with this, Green has a large social media presence.

Could he not have gone to college, had a comparably large social-media presence and been viewed by millions of college-basketball fans?

I understand that some NBA talent evaluators might prefer the more hermetic G-League environment. But college coaches can point to advantages to going to college and NBA talent evaluators are not going to penalize players for going to college.

It will be fascinating to see how the maturation of the G-League and the eventual arrival of NIL change the battleground. But I think too many stakeholders have too much invested in big-time college basketball for it to be significantly diminished.

Duke and Carolina will still be a thing if Duke doesn't have Vernon Carey and Carolina doesn't have Cole Anthony. Will it still be a thing if Duke doesn't have Jeremy Roach and Carolina doesn't have Caleb Love? Will we have to find out?

Interesting times.

[CoachJ10]

It will be interesting to see who the G-League poaches away from college programs this spring/summer. Kuminga and Green never signed with anyone, but Isaiah Todd (Michigan) and Dashien Nix (UCLA) were expected to be significant parts of major programs this season.

Most folks expect uncommitted recruits Jaden Hardy (#2 in 247) and Michael Foster (#14) to take the G-League route from the class of 2021, but you can bet there will be some kids who are already committed elsewhere who end up taking the G-League offer. My bet is that Shareef Abdur-Rahim is probably starting to reach out to high schoolers right about now.



Yup. Far more people saw DJ Steward play this year than saw Jonathan Kuminga. Right now, Steward has much better name recognition than Jalen Green does (though Kuminga and Green will shoot up when they get picked in the first half of the lottery).

Far more people would have watched DJ if the ACC Network and Xfinity (and other providers) had gotten their act together and played nice!

[LasVegas]

I'm going to disagree with this, Green has a large social media presence.

I don’t think you can make assumptions based off of Social media followers when most of those are just bots.

[JasonEvans]

I disagree too. Nobody but the most die-hard college basketball fan could pick DJ Steward out of a lineup, or has ever heard his name.

In an off year for Duke, with fewer games and less attention than usual, DJ Steward was on national TV with more than a million people watching more than a dozen times this year.

Want to know how many times Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga played a game that was watched by a million people? Zero.

Half a million? Zero
Quarter of a million? Zero

Here is a list of the top 150 programs on Cable TV on Feb 17th, one of the days the Ignite actually played on National TV on ESPN2... I can't even find ratings for the game because it did not make the top 150. There are programs on that list that were seen by a few as 81,000 people (El Objecto del Crimen on DISCOVERY EL Espanol) and the G League game ain't nowhere to be found.

Look, the folks on these boards are die-hards. We are outliers and not at all like normal, casual basketball fans. I know at least a dozen Duke fan friends who have never heard of Jonathan Kuminga or Jalen Green... they all know DJ Steward. The simple reality is that playing for Duke (or Kentucky or UNC or many upper tier programs) will get you a lot lot lot lot more famous than playing in the G League. The idea that anyone would contest this makes no sense to me. The difference in TV ratings is night and day.

Kuminga and Green will have fewer fans than Suggs and Cunningham on draft day... and Steward and Jalen Johnson too. College basketball (and the people who pay attention to these teams) is just much more significant than the G League to the general public.

[FerryFor50]

Jaylen Blake gets a Duke offer:

https://twitter.com/verbalcommits/st...528219651?s=21

[DavidBenAkiva]

Jaylen Blake gets a Duke offer:

https://twitter.com/verbalcommits/st...528219651?s=21

Adam Zagoria reports that Blakes said "a decision should be coming soon." I take that to mean good news.

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/stat...67042588680204

EDIT: Andrew Slater seems to think things look really good for Duke here. He tweeted out this cryptic gif, as is his style, of Luol Deng dunking the ball. Deng went to Blair Academy, same as Jaylen Blakes. It looks like Duke has found its long-term backup PG.

https://twitter.com/Andrew__Slater/s...70127637680128

[jaywilliams22]

Adam Zagoria reports that Blakes said "a decision should be coming soon." I take that to mean good news.

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/stat...67042588680204

EDIT: Andrew Slater seems to think things look really good for Duke here. He tweeted out this cryptic gif, as is his style, of Luol Deng dunking the ball. Deng went to Blair Academy, same as Jaylen Blakes. It looks like Duke has found its long-term backup PG.

https://twitter.com/Andrew__Slater/s...70127637680128

Slater just posted a classic cryptic tweet of Luol Deng attached to his previous Jaylen Blakes tweet. Seems like this should be done pretty soon.

[SkyBrickey]

6’2” 195. #101 ranked recruit on 247. I’ve seen him listed as both a PG and a SG. He’s got a college-ready build. Hope we land him.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

6’2” 195. #101 ranked recruit on 247. I’ve seen him listed as both a PG and a SG. He’s got a college-ready build. Hope we land him.

Is he good enough to start at PG over Roach?

[DavidBenAkiva]

Is he good enough to start at PG over Roach?

I'm not sure if this is a joke, so I will answer it seriously.

This is a ringing endorsement of Jeremy Roach by the coaching staff.

[tommy]

In an off year for Duke, with fewer games and less attention than usual, DJ Steward was on national TV with more than a million people watching more than a dozen times this year.

Want to know how many times Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga played a game that was watched by a million people? Zero.

Half a million? Zero
Quarter of a million? Zero

Here is a list of the top 150 programs on Cable TV on Feb 17th, one of the days the Ignite actually played on National TV on ESPN2... I can't even find ratings for the game because it did not make the top 150. There are programs on that list that were seen by a few as 81,000 people (El Objecto del Crimen on DISCOVERY EL Espanol) and the G League game ain't nowhere to be found.

Look, the folks on these boards are die-hards. We are outliers and not at all like normal, casual basketball fans. I know at least a dozen Duke fan friends who have never heard of Jonathan Kuminga or Jalen Green... they all know DJ Steward. The simple reality is that playing for Duke (or Kentucky or UNC or many upper tier programs) will get you a lot lot lot lot more famous than playing in the G League. The idea that anyone would contest this makes no sense to me. The difference in TV ratings is night and day.

Kuminga and Green will have fewer fans than Suggs and Cunningham on draft day... and Steward and Jalen Johnson too. College basketball (and the people who pay attention to these teams) is just much more significant than the G League to the general public.

I get what you're saying about the TV numbers. It's certainly a very minor issue we're discussing here and not worth squabbling over, but I'll just say this:

Duke was not Duke this year. Duke was not "must see TV" for anyone other than Duke fans. DJ Steward was not a Zion Williamson or even a Jabari Parker who was known to non-college basketball junkies coming out of high school. He was a top 30 recruit. He wasn't Duke's top recruit. And I would venture to guess that those million people who watched our team play on a typical night this year included lots of people who DJ Steward didn't make a lasting impression on unless they were really focused on the game, which means they're pretty intense college basketball fans or they're Duke fans, or both. And then I think a lot of people who consider themselves college basketball fans mean by that designation that they get into watching the NCAA Tournament. Obviously, DJ didn't play in that tournament, so those folks never saw him at all.

Those who are pretty intense college basketball fans, enough that they would be focused enough on Duke basketball to watch and remember exactly who DJ Steward is, are also probably intense enough college basketball fans to know who Jonathan Kuminga is. Not all of them, of course, but I bet a fair amount.

Let's put it this way. If you were to walk down Broadway in any city in America (other than like Durham or Chapel Hill etc.) and stop 100 people at random and ask them if they knew who DJ Steward was and who Jonathan Kuminga is, I bet 98 of them would say no to either one. On the other hand, if you stop 100 people known to be real college basketball fans on the street and ask them the same question, I think the number who knew Steward and the number who knew Kuminga would be pretty close. YMMV.

[GGLC]

I get what you're saying about the TV numbers. It's certainly a very minor issue we're discussing here and not worth squabbling over, but I'll just say this:

Duke was not Duke this year. Duke was not "must see TV" for anyone other than Duke fans. DJ Steward was not a Zion Williamson or even a Jabari Parker who was known to non-college basketball junkies coming out of high school. He was a top 30 recruit. He wasn't Duke's top recruit. And I would venture to guess that those million people who watched our team play on a typical night this year included lots of people who DJ Steward didn't make a lasting impression on unless they were really focused on the game, which means they're pretty intense college basketball fans or they're Duke fans, or both. And then I think a lot of people who consider themselves college basketball fans mean by that designation that they get into watching the NCAA Tournament. Obviously, DJ didn't play in that tournament, so those folks never saw him at all.

Those who are pretty intense college basketball fans, enough that they would be focused enough on Duke basketball to watch and remember exactly who DJ Steward is, are also probably intense enough college basketball fans to know who Jonathan Kuminga is. Not all of them, of course, but I bet a fair amount.

Let's put it this way. If you were to walk down Broadway in any city in America (other than like Durham or Chapel Hill etc.) and stop 100 people at random and ask them if they knew who DJ Steward was and who Jonathan Kuminga is, I bet 98 of them would say no to either one. On the other hand, if you stop 100 people known to be real college basketball fans on the street and ask them the same question, I think the number who knew Steward and the number who knew Kuminga would be pretty close. YMMV.

I agree with all of this. Well put.

[proelitedota]

6’2” 195. #101 ranked recruit on 247. I’ve seen him listed as both a PG and a SG. He’s got a college-ready build. Hope we land him.

This is the best type of pickup for us for next year. A Goldwire type of project that can play heavy minutes year 3 and 4.

[arnie]

I'm not sure if this is a joke, so I will answer it seriously.

This is a ringing endorsement of Jeremy Roach by the coaching staff.

I hope K told Blake he has an opportunity to start and play substantial minutes if he’s the best PG option for the team. Borderline top 100 recruits have made huge impacts at many top schools.

[roywhite]

Some interesting quotes from Blakes in this piece from DevilsDen

Prior to his high school season tipping off at Blair, Blakes offered some insight into what will shape his decision-making process when he does eventually move toward a decision.

"I am looking for the best combination of academics and athletics, an alumni network that is supportive during my college years and after graduation, a school, culture and community that embraces student-athletes, are committed to diversity and inclusiveness and has a great school spirit at games," he told 247Sports.com. "From a basketball perspective, I am looking for a coach that trusts me and I know that the trust goes both ways. In order for the coach to trust me I also have to perform off the court and I want that coach to trust me as well and I want a coach that embraces me for the individual that I am and continues to invest in my development and knowledge of the game that continues to grow me as a person and as an athlete. I have been blessed at Blair with the culture of brotherhood, selflessness, community service and a focus on just making each other better and that's what I am looking for in a college program. One of the most important parts is winning. I have always wanted to win, I am competitive, so that's one of the most important parts."

https://247sports.com/college/duke/A...m_content=Link

[Daddylawman]

Those who are pretty intense college basketball fans, enough that they would be focused enough on Duke basketball to watch and remember exactly who DJ Steward is, are also probably intense enough college basketball fans to know who Jonathan Kuminga is. Not all of them, of course, but I bet a fair amount.

Let's put it this way. If you were to walk down Broadway in any city in America (other than like Durham or Chapel Hill etc.) and stop 100 people at random and ask them if they knew who DJ Steward was and who Jonathan Kuminga is, I bet 98 of them would say no to either one. On the other hand, if you stop 100 people known to be real college basketball fans on the street and ask them the same question, I think the number who knew Steward and the number who knew Kuminga would be pretty close. YMMV.

Here's another way of looking at it. This is a highly educated college basketball group. I bet most (no, not all by any means) of the folks on this board don't know the second best player on Kentucky, Michigan State, Tennessee, USC, West Virgina, etc. All bluebloods or teams that were better than Duke this year. It's an old cliche', but for the majority of fans college ball is about the team, not the player unless it is their own squad.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I hope K told Blake he has an opportunity to start and play substantial minutes if he’s the best PG option for the team. Borderline top 100 recruits have made huge impacts at many top schools.

Please show me a Final Four team that had a freshman ranked outside the RSCI Top 100 start at PG.

I can show you a number of teams that had sophomores that were ranked in the top 30 of their high school class. Your expectation should be that Jeremy Roach is going to start the season as the primary PG for Duke in November. If he falters or gets injured, I'd wager (not real money, I don't do that) Wendell Moore would likely start at PG over Jaylen Blakes in 2021-22. That being said, I like what I have seen of Blakes and hope he develops into an outstanding player at Duke over his career.