2021 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread

[rsvman]

I think he is going to choose Georgetown.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Thanks fgb, I was (mostly) just riffing, but that’s the thing about tea leaves, they are infinitely interpretable.

Another thing I said sorta tongue in cheek earlier was that I don’t think he would choose to play for his father. He has learned everything he can from his father so far, I’m sure his entire game has been molded by him. No more growth if he goes to UMW. And not only is Duke a better school , academically and hoops-wise, a school that will provide more exposure and a better opportunity to maximize his NBA potential, Coach K is a much better coach than his father, and I can say that confidently without knowing a thing about his father (like his record at UMW). Aside from the comfort factor of being at home, objectively, Duke is a much better choice and one would hope that’s the advice his family gives Jr.

Totally unbiased y’all!

Do any of these OADs really care about academics?

[TywinBlue]

My heart says Duke; my head says he plays for his Dad.

[1991 duke law]

Do any of these OADs really care about academics?

Sadly it seems no.

[Bluedog]

Frankly, it's pretty rare for any major basketball prospect to care about academic prestige of the institution they attend, let alone OADs. Duke recruits very rarely have an overlap with peer institutions if you look at their interest lists. Quality of basketball program (coach, facilities, other players, etc.) is a much much higher priority. That may be logical though given the amount of time and dedication they devote to the sport. I don't think that's anything new though. The Brian Zoubeks and Ryan Kellys of the world are very rare.

[1991 duke law]

Frankly, it's pretty rare for any major basketball prospect to care about academic prestige of the institution they attend, let alone OADs. Duke recruits very rarely have an overlap with peer institutions if you look at their interest lists. Quality of basketball program (coach, facilities, other players, etc.) is a much much higher priority. That may be logical though given the amount of time and dedication they devote to the sport. I don't think that's anything new though. The Brian Zoubeks and Ryan Kellys of the world are very rare.

And grant hill and Shane Battier. Likely JJ and Grayson too. Antonio Lang. There were a few - but perhaps no more.

[fgb]

My heart says Duke; my head says he plays for his Dad.

That's the thing... If he wants to play for his dad, given the rumblings about pbsr's job situation, now seems like the least likely time to commit.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Do any of these OADs really care about academics?

A lot of them do. Wendell Carter, Jr. was considering Harvard as well as Duke if memory serves. John Wall got good grades during his season at UK and then came back and earned a degree several years later. The demands of playing in the NBA shouldn't be taken lightly. Many of these players would do just fine if they had the time to focus on classes. But when you are presented with the opportunity to earn family-changing money, you focus on that. Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates did the same thing. They weren't dummies and neither was Zion or many others.

[sagegrouse]

Frankly, it's pretty rare for any major basketball prospect to care about academic prestige of the institution they attend, let alone OADs. Duke recruits very rarely have an overlap with peer institutions if you look at their interest lists. Quality of basketball program (coach, facilities, other players, etc.) is a much much higher priority. That may be logical though given the amount of time and dedication they devote to the sport. I don't think that's anything new though. The Brian Zoubeks and Ryan Kellys of the world are very rare.

Oh, my! Duke University is a huge selling point to recruits, even the OAD crowd. What distinguishes Duke from other major hoops powers is the well-recognized academic reputation, the all-world fellow students (who are an education in themselves), the connections later on through the friends at Duke, the alumni network and -- frankly -- the halo effect from having gone to Duke. Lots of Duke players in front of the camera or in NBA front offices.

And then there's the "Brotherhood."

Do you honestly think that K would have been as successful if he had gone to coach at other schools? From being around Duke for most of my life, I am impressed that Duke attempts to be first rate in everything it does -- and succeeds much of the time.

[Bluedog]

Oh, my! Duke University is a huge selling point to recruits, even the OAD crowd. What distinguishes Duke from other major hoops powers is the well-recognized academic reputation, the all-world fellow students (who are an education in themselves), the connections later on through the friends at Duke, the alumni network and -- frankly -- the halo effect from having gone to Duke. Lots of Duke players in front of the camera or in NBA front offices.

And then there's the "Brotherhood."

Do you honestly think that K would have been as successful if he had gone to coach at other schools? From being around Duke for most of my life, I am impressed that Duke attempts to be first rate in everything it does -- and succeeds much of the time.

I absolutely agree that the Duke pedigree is a HUGE sell and the fact Duke basketball alumni are very successful in management positions is a part of that. Coach K has absolutely done a masterful job at marketing that aspect to recruits and I think it's genuine. I was simply saying that 99% of top basket recruits ain't choosing Northwestern over Kentucky...so, academic prestige is pretty far down on the list. The prestige of the basketball program certainly is high on the list. And Coach K certainly has merged the two at Duke quite well to elevate the appealing aspects and impacts to player careers (both basketball and non basketball related).

But you don't see many players choosing between Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Stanford like you would for "normal students." That's all. Don't think that's too controversial to say basketball recruits have very different criteria in evaluating where they want to go to school than a typical student does (and again, not saying that's necessarily illogical either). Jordan Goldwire (whom I love and am very happy he was a part of the program) was going to Eastern Kentucky until Duke showed late interest. (No offense to Eastern Kentucky, but it's not in Duke's league from an academic or basketball prestige perspective). Clearly, what Duke offered as a whole package dwarfed what Eastern KY could offer Jordan and he jumped at the chance. I don't think many other students have their final two down to Eastern KY and Duke.

TL;DR: what Duke offers as a complete package certainly has elevated the basketball program and allowed Coach K to sell it and has led to great outcomes for the players both on and off the court. Still, there is a miniscule number of top flight high school basketball players where academic prestige of an institution is just as important as the athletic offering. Which is reasonable really.

[JasonEvans]

This is a really tough call...

The pro Milwaukee argument:
PBJr can instantly elevate his father's program in a major way. Committing would likely allow his dad to continue to earn head coaching dollars for at least a little while longer. What's more, it is hard to imagine him sitting next to his dad on ESPN and announcing he will be attending a different school. I mean, what does that say about his father as a coach? Ouch! If he is sitting there with his father on the broadcast, I just don't see him pulling out a Duke or Georgetown hat. Well, if he does pull out a different hat, dad is gonna have to have a very solid answer about why his son is going elsewhere.

The anti Milwaukee argument:
If he was going to Milwaukee, why wait until the end of the process to announce? This is a program in need of talent in a big, big way. There is no way PBJr is going to be surrounded by NBA-level players if he picks Milwaukee, but you'd think he would want at least some guys who can play a bit and help the team succeed. Instead, arguably Milwaukee's best player from last season, G Te'Jon Lucas (14.9ppg, 4.6rpg, 5.8apg) is transferring and is looking at schools like BYU, Utah, and DePaul. Don't you think a kid like that would strongly consider sticking around if he was going to be setting up a future lottery pick next season? The fact that Lucas is leaving the program says to me that PBJr ain't coming. I counted three other Milwaukee players who played 20+ minutes per game last season who have also entered the transfer portal. Yes, there are some good players staying, including last year's leading scorer, but it feels like a middle of the pack Horizon team is losing several important pieces... and what have they replaced those pieces with? So far, the only transfer Milwaukee has brought in is center Samba Kane who averaged 2pts and 2rebs per game in less than 10 minutes per game of playing time last year for San Francisco. Not exactly an impact player. Bottom line -- Milwaukee is worse right now than they were a year ago. Even with PBJr, this is likely to be a team that struggles. If PBJR wanted to play for his father, he should have announced weeks ago and then helped bring in some transfers who would help turn the program around.

The anti Georgetown argument:
So, if not Milwaukee, then he is picking between Duke and Georgetown. Ok, remember how I spoke about how tough it would be for dad to explain not getting his own son? Well, it is one thing to say, "My son wanted to play for the winningest coach of all time and give himself a very good chance to win a national title playing alongside numerous other NBA prospects." What does PBSr say about his son picking Georgetown over Milwaukee? "My son really wanted to play for a school that hasn't been nationally relevant since my son was in elementary school and for a coach who is yet to have a winning season in his conference and yet to win a single NCAA tournament game." Ouch... talk about a bad look. Georgetown has lost arguably its three top players to transfer and graduation (even though they could have come back for an extra year). Again, if PBJr wants to play for a school that is relevant, you'd think he would be telling these guys to stick around. Georgetown does have a nice recruiting class, led by top 25 SG Aminu Mohammed, but even if they land Baldwin, it seems unlikely that the Hoyas will be a strong contender in the Big East next season. I really think Georgetown is a long long longshot here.

The pro Georgetown argument: Patrick Ewing is a really nice guy... who was legend when PBJr was a baby. The program was really great... when PBJr was a baby. The campus is kinda pretty. DC is a cool town, I suppose. Ummmm, I got nothing else.

Ya'll know all the pro-Duke arguments about playing for a legend and going for a title and being a part of the most successful NBA producing team around and so on and so on. We don't need to get into that. The only anti-Duke argument is that PBJr would have to really compete for playing time and touches. If he is not confident in his ability to stand out amongst the very best, then picking Duke is a mistake. But this does not appear to be a kid who lacks confidence. Maybe there is an argument about "leading the team" that he perhaps does not get at Duke... but calling that a strong argument against Duke seems like a real stretch to me.

I just feel like PBJr is going to be doomed to being surrounded by mediocre players and not growing at all next season if he picks anywhere but Duke. Maybe the lure of saving dad's job is strong enough, but -- again -- if he really wanted to impact his father's success then waiting until May to make his choice is about the worst possible way to do that.

-Jason "I love numbers so I'll go with these: Duke 65%, Milwaukee 30%, Georgetown 5%" Evans

[TywinBlue]

This is a really tough call...

The pro Milwaukee argument:
PBJr can instantly elevate his father's program in a major way. Committing would likely allow his dad to continue to earn head coaching dollars for at least a little while longer. What's more, it is hard to imagine him sitting next to his dad on ESPN and announcing he will be attending a different school. I mean, what does that say about his father as a coach? Ouch! If he is sitting there with his father on the broadcast, I just don't see him pulling out a Duke or Georgetown hat. Well, if he does pull out a different hat, dad is gonna have to have a very solid answer about why his son is going elsewhere.

The anti Milwaukee argument:
If he was going to Milwaukee, why wait until the end of the process to announce? This is a program in need of talent in a big, big way. There is no way PBJr is going to be surrounded by NBA-level players if he picks Milwaukee, but you'd think he would want at least some guys who can play a bit and help the team succeed. Instead, arguably Milwaukee's best player from last season, G Te'Jon Lucas (14.9ppg, 4.6rpg, 5.8apg) is transferring and is looking at schools like BYU, Utah, and DePaul. Don't you think a kid like that would strongly consider sticking around if he was going to be setting up a future lottery pick next season? The fact that Lucas is leaving the program says to me that PBJr ain't coming. I counted three other Milwaukee players who played 20+ minutes per game last season who have also entered the transfer portal. Yes, there are some good players staying, including last year's leading scorer, but it feels like a middle of the pack Horizon team is losing several important pieces... and what have they replaced those pieces with? So far, the only transfer Milwaukee has brought in is center Samba Kane who averaged 2pts and 2rebs per game in less than 10 minutes per game of playing time last year for San Francisco. Not exactly an impact player. Bottom line -- Milwaukee is worse right now than they were a year ago. Even with PBJr, this is likely to be a team that struggles. If PBJR wanted to play for his father, he should have announced weeks ago and then helped bring in some transfers who would help turn the program around.

The anti Georgetown argument:
So, if not Milwaukee, then he is picking between Duke and Georgetown. Ok, remember how I spoke about how tough it would be for dad to explain not getting his own son? Well, it is one thing to say, "My son wanted to play for the winningest coach of all time and give himself a very good chance to win a national title playing alongside numerous other NBA prospects." What does PBSr say about his son picking Georgetown over Milwaukee? "My son really wanted to play for a school that hasn't been nationally relevant since my son was in elementary school and for a coach who is yet to have a winning season in his conference and yet to win a single NCAA tournament game." Ouch... talk about a bad look. Georgetown has lost arguably its three top players to transfer and graduation (even though they could have come back for an extra year). Again, if PBJr wants to play for a school that is relevant, you'd think he would be telling these guys to stick around. Georgetown does have a nice recruiting class, led by top 25 SG Aminu Mohammed, but even if they land Baldwin, it seems unlikely that the Hoyas will be a strong contender in the Big East next season. I really think Georgetown is a long long longshot here.

The pro Georgetown argument: Patrick Ewing is a really nice guy... who was legend when PBJr was a baby. The program was really great... when PBJr was a baby. The campus is kinda pretty. DC is a cool town, I suppose. Ummmm, I got nothing else.

Ya'll know all the pro-Duke arguments about playing for a legend and going for a title and being a part of the most successful NBA producing team around and so on and so on. We don't need to get into that. The only anti-Duke argument is that PBJr would have to really compete for playing time and touches. If he is not confident in his ability to stand out amongst the very best, then picking Duke is a mistake. But this does not appear to be a kid who lacks confidence. Maybe there is an argument about "leading the team" that he perhaps does not get at Duke... but calling that a strong argument against Duke seems like a real stretch to me.

I just feel like PBJr is going to be doomed to being surrounded by mediocre players and not growing at all next season if he picks anywhere but Duke. Maybe the lure of saving dad's job is strong enough, but -- again -- if he really wanted to impact his father's success then waiting until May to make his choice is about the worst possible way to do that.

-Jason "I love numbers so I'll go with these: Duke 65%, Milwaukee 30%, Georgetown 5%" Evans

Well done Jason !

[Dukehky]

The only thing that gives me pause about saying it's Duke is that he's announcing on ESPN--the shift from being definitely Wisconsin in the Spring is just too much. Seems weird to go on national TV to be like, "SCREW YOU, DAD!" (I know that's not what he'd be doing).

Georgetown, though. GTHOH

[Messimorgan17]

The only thing that gives me pause about saying it's Duke is that he's announcing on ESPN--the shift from being definitely Wisconsin in the Spring is just too much. Seems weird to go on national TV to be like, "SCREW YOU, DAD!" (I know that's not what he'd be doing).

Georgetown, though. GTHOH

As both a Georgetown and Duke alum, there is no contest. If it was the late 80s another story.

It seems that other than the emotional tie, if making the decision based on logic, objectively, there is no question he should pick duke over dad for all the reasons posted.
Basically, if he’s a OAD, it’s all about his career and setting up his future on and off the court. If his father really cares about his son and not selfish, then the path is clear.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Meanwhile the top listed thread on IC is... “Patrick Baldwin Jr”

They’re so obsessed.

Gotta go hose myself off now.

[SkyBrickey]

Ready to get this over with so someone can start a minutes thread!

[Rich]

This is a really tough call...

The pro Milwaukee argument:
PBJr can instantly elevate his father's program in a major way. Committing would likely allow his dad to continue to earn head coaching dollars for at least a little while longer. What's more, it is hard to imagine him sitting next to his dad on ESPN and announcing he will be attending a different school. I mean, what does that say about his father as a coach? Ouch! If he is sitting there with his father on the broadcast, I just don't see him pulling out a Duke or Georgetown hat. Well, if he does pull out a different hat, dad is gonna have to have a very solid answer about why his son is going elsewhere.

The anti Milwaukee argument:
If he was going to Milwaukee, why wait until the end of the process to announce? This is a program in need of talent in a big, big way. There is no way PBJr is going to be surrounded by NBA-level players if he picks Milwaukee, but you'd think he would want at least some guys who can play a bit and help the team succeed. Instead, arguably Milwaukee's best player from last season, G Te'Jon Lucas (14.9ppg, 4.6rpg, 5.8apg) is transferring and is looking at schools like BYU, Utah, and DePaul. Don't you think a kid like that would strongly consider sticking around if he was going to be setting up a future lottery pick next season? The fact that Lucas is leaving the program says to me that PBJr ain't coming. I counted three other Milwaukee players who played 20+ minutes per game last season who have also entered the transfer portal. Yes, there are some good players staying, including last year's leading scorer, but it feels like a middle of the pack Horizon team is losing several important pieces... and what have they replaced those pieces with? So far, the only transfer Milwaukee has brought in is center Samba Kane who averaged 2pts and 2rebs per game in less than 10 minutes per game of playing time last year for San Francisco. Not exactly an impact player. Bottom line -- Milwaukee is worse right now than they were a year ago. Even with PBJr, this is likely to be a team that struggles. If PBJR wanted to play for his father, he should have announced weeks ago and then helped bring in some transfers who would help turn the program around.

I'll add this to the mix. If it were my dad/son he/I would say, "It was my son's decision to play for Duke and Coach K because he felt that would be the best for him and his career. I treat him as an adult and I told him his decision should in no way be tied to my professional career, that I love him and support him whatever he decides to do. I didn't put any pressure on him to join my team, it's something he considered doing for me, and I respect his decision. I'll be fine. I look forward to his growth as a player and a person under the tutelage of Coach K and his excellent staff at Duke University."

[TywinBlue]

I'll add this to the mix. If it were my son I would say, "It was my son's decision to play for Duke and Coach K because he felt that would be the best for him and his career. I treat him as an adult and I told him his decision should in no way be tied to my professional career, that I love him and support him whatever he decides to do. I didn't put any pressure on him to join my team, it's something he considered doing for me, and I respect his decision. I'll be fine. I look forward to his growth as a player and a person under the tutelage of Coach K and his excellent staff at Duke University."

I'm not crying; your crying...

[CameronDuke]

If Duke lands Baldwin Jr., does anyone think Duke would have the top recruiting class in the country going until next season?

Banchero, Griffin, Keels, Blakes, Baldwin, Jr.?

[DevilYouKnow]

PBSr is in hot water at UWM. Is having his son for a year going to do anything besides give him another year before the water boils again?

Yeah, I'm biased, but if his contract is not being renewed, how much will landing his son help? Having his son play for Coach K may be more in the family's interest in the long run.