Who would you trade straight up for Tatum?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wow! I just love these "never will be" posts. Only wish I were so forward thinking. Such absolute knowledge certainly takes the mysteries out of life.

I assume you still think Jahlil Okafor will be an All-Star/make an All-NBA team?

I'm stating the obvious. Kawhi won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in '15 and '16. He's a top 3 defender in the league. Tatum is a solid defender. He may even be really good. Possibly elite. But to be Kawhi, you have to be whatever better than elite is.

[Indoor66]

Wow! I just love these "never will be" posts. Only wish I were so forward thinking. Such absolute knowledge certainly takes the mysteries out of life.

You must not read a lot of posts here. The only thing missing are some stats that "support" never.

[superdave]

Bill Simmons used to rank the top 50 guys based on age, contract, salary, etc. The goal was to settle whether you'd rather have Lebron at 33 for $36 million for 1 year or Tatum at 19 and $7 million for 4 more years on a rookie contract. It was always a fun article...not sure if he does that anymore.

I think a good argument would be Ben Simmons vs Jayson Tatum. Similar production and similar contracts. Who would you rather have?

One is maybe the next in the line of Magic/Lebron and the other is a Duran/Pierce type player. Tough choice.

[kshepinthehouse]

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that Tatum had access to better coaching, training and competition than Giannis over those first 18 years.

Put it another way. How good is Giannis at 19 if he grows up in the Greater St. Louis area, plays high-level high school and AAU ball and gets a season under Mike Krzyzewski?

Antetokounmpo was still learning things at age 19 that Tatum had learned years earlier.

Depends on what you’re goal is. I think the Celtics want to win right now. I think their goal is to do whatever they can to make their team better in the present. If the question is, who will help them win a title this coming year, I think the Freak will win that argument. If they question is who is more valuable over the course of the rest of their career, then it becomes more complicated. There are countless times when teams have stockpiled talent and are said to be the next big thing. And it doesn’t turn out like everyone has envisioned. There are a few teams who were supposed to take the reigns from the Cavs in the eastern conference and that hasn’t happened either.

I think most of us can agree that Tatum is nearly untouchable. But I wouldn’t say he’s 100 % untouchable yet.

[left_hook_lacey]

Yeah, I love tatum and glad he had a good year. But no GM in their right mind would even offer the players to OP mentioned for a straight up trade for Tatum. Fun to think about, but the idea needs to be on the shelf a few more years to find out for sure what kind of okayer Tatum will be. Too early.

[ncexnyc]

Interesting to see so many people willing to take Kawhi over Tatum.
I don't have much faith in a man who sits out the majority of a season with a questionable injury, basically bailing on his team and a grown man who can't speak-up for himself. Not the type of player who has Team Leader written all over him. And please don't bother to mention that he won an Finals MVP Award. If you look at his stats for that round you'll see that Scottie Pippen with his 6 rings had better stats than Kawhi did on several occasions, but didn't win that award.

[Wahoo2000]

Interesting to see so many people willing to take Kawhi over Tatum.
I don't have much faith in a man who sits out the majority of a season with a questionable injury, basically bailing on his team and a grown man who can't speak-up for himself. Not the type of player who has Team Leader written all over him. And please don't bother to mention that he won an Finals MVP Award. If you look at his stats for that round you'll see that Scottie Pippen with his 6 rings had better stats than Kawhi did on several occasions, but didn't win that award.

I wouldn't question the heart or work ethic of a multi-time DPOY award winner. Guys that play defense on that level don't get there by being lazy or heartless. There could be tons of reasons a guy is slow to get back from injury, none of which have to do with him "bailing on his team".

Addendum: pre-injury, Leonard was a consensus top 3-5 NBA player, and I think MOST had him ahead of Durant as the "runner up" to Lebron. Hands down the best defensive player in the NBA, and a 25ppg scorer. Those don't grow on trees...

[OZ]

You must not read a lot of posts here. The only thing missing are some stats that "support" never.

Oh, I read the posts; and I am personally familiar with the "will never" posts. When AOC had a good scrimmage at the Blue/White, I posted I thought he would get "meaningful minutes" during the year. I was soundly put in my place with... "he will not get meaningful minutes"... "he will not get meaningful minutes in important games"..."he will not play after January"... "he will not play in ACC games." One person even offered up a player from years past proclaiming that AOC would "never" play as many minutes as this player did his freshmen year...In the end, AOC exceeded him.That's why I don't care for these "absolute" predictions. To me, they dismiss the human equation... heart...development...coaching...etc. They diss the possibilities of the unexpected.

[NSDukeFan]

If KenPom doesn’t give it much likelihood, is it really statistically possible? 😀

[CoachJ10]

Giannis won’t be as good of an offensive threat??? He averaged 26.9 pts per game last year. And he’s only 23 years old.

As a Cheesehead by birth, I still follow the Bucks...and I would make an observation about the direction that Giannis is trending. While he has physical tools that are elite of the elite and have been developing, his basketball IQ has been severly hampered by having terrible coaches help grow it. I worry that some damage has been done to the growth of a physical specimen who could have been the kind of star that makes players around him better, but who might now just be a great stat stuffer.

[cato]

I wouldn't question the heart or work ethic of a multi-time DPOY award winner. Guys that play defense on that level don't get there by being lazy or heartless. There could be tons of reasons a guy is slow to get back from injury, none of which have to do with him "bailing on his team".

Addendum: pre-injury, Leonard was a consensus top 3-5 NBA player, and I think MOST had him ahead of Durant as the "runner up" to Lebron. Hands down the best defensive player in the NBA, and a 25ppg scorer. Those don't grow on trees...

Well said. If there is a breakdown between the Spurs and Leonard, I’m not going to assign blame. My sympathies are usually with a player, though.

Tatum shows great two way potential, but Leonard has demonstrated great two way play.

Lots of attention has shifted to the Warriors, deservedly so. But people forgot that having someone who can defend LeBron is still a key to any Championship hopes.

[Wahoo2000]

If KenPom doesn’t give it much likelihood, is it really statistically possible? 😀

Ask UMBC...

[jimsumner]

Depends on what you’re goal is. I think the Celtics want to win right now. I think their goal is to do whatever they can to make their team better in the present. If the question is, who will help them win a title this coming year, I think the Freak will win that argument. If they question is who is more valuable over the course of the rest of their career, then it becomes more complicated. There are countless times when teams have stockpiled talent and are said to be the next big thing. And it doesn’t turn out like everyone has envisioned. There are a few teams who were supposed to take the reigns from the Cavs in the eastern conference and that hasn’t happened either.

I think most of us can agree that Tatum is nearly untouchable. But I wouldn’t say he’s 100 % untouchable yet.

I did not make my point adequately. It's neither fair nor accurate, IMO, to compare Tatum at 19 with Antetokounmpo at 19 for the reasons stated.

[MCFinARL]

Interesting to see so many people willing to take Kawhi over Tatum.
I don't have much faith in a man who sits out the majority of a season with a questionable injury, basically bailing on his team and a grown man who can't speak-up for himself. Not the type of player who has Team Leader written all over him. And please don't bother to mention that he won an Finals MVP Award. If you look at his stats for that round you'll see that Scottie Pippen with his 6 rings had better stats than Kawhi did on several occasions, but didn't win that award.

I wouldn't question the heart or work ethic of a multi-time DPOY award winner. Guys that play defense on that level don't get there by being lazy or heartless. There could be tons of reasons a guy is slow to get back from injury, none of which have to do with him "bailing on his team".

Addendum: pre-injury, Leonard was a consensus top 3-5 NBA player, and I think MOST had him ahead of Durant as the "runner up" to Lebron. Hands down the best defensive player in the NBA, and a 25ppg scorer. Those don't grow on trees...

Even if one gives Leonard the benefit of the doubt, though, the length of his injury absence has to raise a question about whether he will be as good in the future as in the past, and if a team is thinking long term rather than win now (obviously a strategic difference that affects choices here), the age difference is pretty significant.

Interestingly, an SI article today proposes a mega-trade in which the Celtics give up Kyrie, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Morris, Aron Baynes and a first round pick next year for Leonard, Derrick White, and Pau Gasol (with Gasol included, from the Spurs' perspective, primarily for cost reasons). I'm not sure that is a trade I would do on those terms if I am the Celtics, but the resulting lineup with Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford is intriguing (again, assuming Hayward can come back from his injury).

[JNort]

All the recent Lebron and Kawhi talk has got me thinking - if you’re the Celtics, how many players out there would you be willing to trade straight up for Tatum right now? Keep in mind all of the real world factors - player age and health and injury history, contract status, fit with the team, trading to a conference rival, etc. Assume the salary cap is not an issue, i.e. your owner is willing to pay whatever luxury tax comes with this trade. I think there’s maybe 10-15 guys out there. Obviously LeBron, assuming you signed him to a max deal. Kawhi would actually give me some pause just because we don’t know the extent of his injury and he only has a year left. Durant seems like a no-brainer, but again he only has a year left (I think). Guys like Anthony Davis, Paul George, Greek Freak, Russell Westbrook would be in play. Anybody else?

For sure:
LeBron
Durant
Kawhi
Davis
Giannis
Steph
Harden
Simmons
PG13
Embid
Porzingis

On the fence about:
Lillard
Wall
Ingram

[JNort]

Bill Simmons used to rank the top 50 guys based on age, contract, salary, etc. The goal was to settle whether you'd rather have Lebron at 33 for $36 million for 1 year or Tatum at 19 and $7 million for 4 more years on a rookie contract. It was always a fun article...not sure if he does that anymore.

I think a good argument would be Ben Simmons vs Jayson Tatum. Similar production and similar contracts. Who would you rather have?

One is maybe the next in the line of Magic/Lebron and the other is a Duran/Pierce type player. Tough choice.

Gah! I love Tatum but I don't think twice about it and take Simmons.

[dukelifer]

Gah! I love Tatum but I don't think twice about it and take Simmons.

Until Simmons learns to shoot- I stick with Tatum. But if Simmons does not become a better shooter next year then he does not have the work ethic to be great. We shall see.

[OldPhiKap]

Ditka.

[luvdahops]

Ditka.

Yup. If they played 1 on 1, I'd project Ditka 437, Tatum 2.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yup. If they played 1 on 1, I'd project Ditka 437, Tatum 2.

What if it was a mini-Ditka?