NBA off-season stuff (free agents, coaching changes, trades)

[cato]

I would take Frank as the 2nd best of that group. Elite athlete, great shooter, good defender and solid ball handler i would say he's better than Allen at all of those things. Allen only has him in decision making and that shouldn't take Frank long to figure out.

Which group? You’re not suggesting Frank was a better college player than Grayson or Luke, are you?

[jimsumner]

I would take Frank as the 2nd best of that group. Elite athlete, great shooter, good defender and solid ball handler i would say he's better than Allen at all of those things. Allen only has him in decision making and that shouldn't take Frank long to figure out.

That's an awfully optimistic assessment of a player who was a sixth man in his only college season two years ago and hasn't played a regular-season second since then.

Might turn out to be true. But seems premature to me.

[JNort]

Which group? You’re not suggesting Frank was a better college player than Grayson or Luke, are you?

I was going purely off of how I think they will be in the NBA.

[JNort]

That's an awfully optimistic assessment of a player who was a sixth man in his only college season two years ago and hasn't played a regular-season second since then.

Might turn out to be true. But seems premature to me.

Well I am very optimistic about the little we've seen from him. The 1 year at Duke he appeared to be the 2nd best all around talent on the team behind Tatum. Last year's summer league he was a beast in his short time and same goes for this year's short time plus I love his measurables. His 2 biggest downfalls are he's a combo guard which imo is irrelevant in today's NBA game and his decision making which should just naturally get better with time.

[Acymetric]

Well I am very optimistic about the little we've seen from him. The 1 year at Duke he appeared to be the 2nd best all around talent on the team behind Tatum. Last year's summer league he was a beast in his short time and same goes for this year's short time plus I love his measurables. His 2 biggest downfalls are he's a combo guard which imo is irrelevant in today's NBA game and his decision making which should just naturally get better with time.

(Emphasis mine)

Are you saying the game has changed significantly since Nolan entered the league or that it is just less of a problem for Frank?

[JNort]

(Emphasis mine)

Are you saying the game has changed significantly since Nolan entered the league or that it is just less of a problem for Frank?

Yes it's changed very much in the last 5 years or so. I don't understand the point about Nolan though. Yeah he was more of a tweener but he's nothing at all similar to Frank who is an elite athlete where Nolan was more average. Nolan was also not anything special at being able to dribble, he was more of a slasher similar to Henderson.

[JasonEvans]

This is a silly discussion. There are precisely two players on that list who have played meaningful NBA minutes, Tatum (2438 mins + 683 more in the playoffs) and Kennard (1463 mins) and they are on the same team. Frankly, you could rank these players 1-8 and then put Tatum with the bottom 3 players and his team would be a heavy, heavy favorite to win a matchup. Having the best player is usually the best way to win in basketball and, at this moment, it appears Jayson is light years beyond any of these other guys.

As for Frank vs. Grayson, it is all speculation at this point. Both guys were picked around the same general place in the draft and both looked good in summer league play. I would imagine that Grayson's experience and age would give him an early edge on Frank, but we won't be able to make a substantive observation on these guys for a couple months at least.

-Jason "of the guys who have never played a NBA minute, I think Carter will easily be the best as a rookie" Evans

[kAzE]

This is a silly discussion. There are precisely two players on that list who have played meaningful NBA minutes, Tatum (2438 mins + 683 more in the playoffs) and Kennard (1463 mins) and they are on the same team. Frankly, you could rank these players 1-8 and then put Tatum with the bottom 3 players and his team would be a heavy, heavy favorite to win a matchup. Having the best player is usually the best way to win in basketball and, at this moment, it appears Jayson is light years beyond any of these other guys.

As for Frank vs. Grayson, it is all speculation at this point. Both guys were picked around the same general place in the draft and both looked good in summer league play. I would imagine that Grayson's experience and age would give him an early edge on Frank, but we won't be able to make a substantive observation on these guys for a couple months at least.

-Jason "of the guys who have never played a NBA minute, I think Carter will easily be the best as a rookie" Evans

I dunno about all that . . . . Jayson is light years ahead of Wendell Carter and Marvin Bagley? That's a bit premature IMO . .
All 3 of those guys have All-Star potential in their futures.

I'm still bullish on the Grayson/Bagley/Carter/Trent team as the better 4 man squad. Harry alone is not going to be able to deal with both Bagley and Carter in the paint. In this matchup, Jayson would be guarding Marvin Bagley, who has about 3 inches and 30 pounds on Jayson. Jayson is an above average defender, but he ain't stopping Bagley. On the other hand, Bagley can't guard Jayson either, but Bagley still has a huge advantage on the boards on both ends. Jayson's team better be making every single shot, because the Bagley/Carter combo will be eating up most of the rebounds.

Having the best player doesn't always work out. LeBron has been the best player in the game for over a decade, and still has lost several times in the finals. Jayson was easily the best player in his last game wearing a Duke jersey, but we still lost to a much less talented South Carolina team.

Jayson is undoubtedly the best player of those 8 (and there is no bigger Jayson Tatum fan than me), but Bagley and Carter are not that far behind. Grayson is, in my estimation, the 4th best player of this group. The gap is not as huge as you make it out to be IMO. Maybe if you project Jayson when he is 27 and in the middle of his prime, he'd be good enough to single handedly beat these guys, but while the gap is still relatively close, I'll take the squad that has 3 of the best 4 players.

[kAzE]

While we're at it, why don't we throw a 3rd 4 man squad into this debate:

RJ Barrett
Zion Williamson
Cameron Reddish
Tre Jones

They probably would get killed because they are 18 years old, but if we fast forward these guys 2 years to catch up in age? I'll take them over both the previous years.

[CDu]

I think so much of this debate is predicated on assumptions about the quality of players that haven't played in the NBA yet. I tend to agree with kAzE that the top 3 are likely Tatum then Bagley/Carter in some order. But after that? Anybody's guess. Kennard has played sparingly thus far, and Jackson, Giles, Allen, and Trent haven't played at all yet.

Giles is a big wild card to me. If he regains the confidence and physical attributes he had as a high schooler, he could perhaps rival Bagley/Carter. He certainly had that type of pedigree prior to the injuries (and even after the first injury). But he's such a huge unknown. And honestly I think it's hard to assess the four guards/wings, but I would feel confident in saying that they will fall well behind those first 3.

[Troublemaker]

What are the rules of this game we're debating? Decide on those first.

For example, quite obviously, the team with NBA experience would thrash the team of rookies if they played today. Jayson was a star in the NBA playoffs, for heaven's sake. So, obviously, there is some implied adjustment here where we are normalizing for experience, right?

Are we playing a pickup game without refs or an "official" game with refs, scoreboard, timeouts? College rules or NBA rules?

And, actually, I've been assuming that they are playing a game. Should the debate be more about which group of players will have the most successful careers when it's all said and done?

[Indoor66]

What are the rules of this game we're debating? Decide on those first.

Are you kidding? This is DBR! 😂 🤣 😎

[BD80]

Are you kidding? This is DBR! 😂 🤣 😎

FightCassidy.jpg

[JNort]

What are the rules of this game we're debating? Decide on those first.

For example, quite obviously, the team with NBA experience would thrash the team of rookies if they played today. Jayson was a star in the NBA playoffs, for heaven's sake. So, obviously, there is some implied adjustment here where we are normalizing for experience, right?

Are we playing a pickup game without refs or an "official" game with refs, scoreboard, timeouts? College rules or NBA rules?

And, actually, I've been assuming that they are playing a game. Should the debate be more about which group of players will have the most successful careers when it's all said and done?

Yeah this is probably where much gets lost in translation. I'm basing it off of how I think they will be by the time their careers are over.

[JasonEvans]

Jayson Tatum posted on Instagram about getting his high school jersey retired. He seems genuinely honored. Hard to imagine but he was still in high school just a little more than 2 years ago.

Meanwhile, a really telling Instagram post from Jahlil Okafor. He candidly says he has struggled with some mental health issues. He also shows off his remade body. While he once seemed kinda pudgy, he now looks pretty darn fit and strong. Good luck, Jah!



-Jason "I really wanted the Hawks to get Okafor, as I think he could be a good piece moving forward... but they were too busy spending money on Vince Carter... sheesh!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

As Brad Stevens obsessed as we all are, this wide-ranging interview with him has some interesting nuggets. For example, he thinks it is easier to be a NBA coach than a college one.

A:It’s way easier in the pros. Every pro coach will tell you — and I get asked all the time by college coaches — the season is certainly long, but you know exactly what the schedule is when it comes out. So, we know when we’re going to be home, we know when we’re not. We know when our long home stands are, and we know when we need to really take a deep breath and get away and spend time with our family during the season. And you make that time.

I’ve never been the guy who stayed at the office until 2 a.m., woke up at 5 a.m., went back and never saw my family. I love to wake up with my kids. I love to see them off to school. My daughter still walks to school, and I walk with her on a lot of days. Then I’ll be back at night -- as long as we’re home for dinner.

There’s always work you can do. I think one of the things I learned early in coaching is you don’t do much else. You do your job and you prioritize your family. Then, in the summer, it’s just easier in the pros. You’ve got a small, quiet time after summer league. A group of guys starts trickling back in. I may visit a town or two where guys are, but for the most part, I would say I hang out with my family and kind of take a deep breath and get ready for the next season.

Q. What about the college grind?

A. In college you’re recruiting, you’re on somebody else’s call, you have to be ready to do a visit at the drop of a dime. It’s just a different challenge, but there are great advantages to both, certainly.

-Jason "a whole bunch more in that article... but he curiously never once mentions that he would leave the Celtics for Duke in a heartbeat. I am surprised they left that part out" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As Brad Stevens obsessed as we all are, this wide-ranging interview with him has some interesting nuggets. For example, he thinks it is easier to be a NBA coach than a college one.



-Jason "a whole bunch more in that article... but he curiously never once mentions that he would leave the Celtics for Duke in a heartbeat. I am surprised they left that part out" Evans

I am sure he said it. Probably left it out to avoid any potential charges of tampering.

/SARCASM

[JasonEvans]

Frank Jackson is working hard this off-season. His body looks more sculpted than I recall.

https://instagram.com/p/Bmeg-dEFZhM/

[UrinalCake]

/[Okafor] also shows off his remade body. While he once seemed kinda pudgy, he now looks pretty darn fit and strong. Good luck, Jah!

Is that supposed to be a “before and after” split screen? Because I honestly don’t see much difference other than a stronger light source on the right side which casts stronger shadows. Also, I would kill to have his “before” physique 8-)

By all accounts though he is in better shape. He has said that going vegan has led to fewer knee problems, which I think is great because it means there’s more meat around for the rest of us.

[BD80]

Is that supposed to be a “before and after” split screen? Because I honestly don’t see much difference other than a stronger light source on the right side which casts stronger shadows. Also, I would kill to have his “before” physique 8-)

By all accounts though he is in better shape. He has said that going vegan has led to fewer knee problems, which I think is great because it means there’s more meat around for the rest of us.

And with Wagyu beef on sale at Costco - $100 off, just $399 for 4 12 oz steaks!