Wendell Carter's Mother Is Angry

[Jeffrey]

Bagley's decision to reclassify was very carefully orchestrated and I am sure that Duke and the other schools were actively involved in the process.

IMO, Marvin should have been assisted in his reclassification effort.

Wendell could not have made money in the NBA last year.

Marvin is older (a couple weeks) and better than Wendell. IMO, it only makes sense (given the age restriction) that the NBA got to see Marvin play college hoops before drafting him.

[johnb]

If Wendell's mother is simply money grubbing, she shouldn't be speaking out when she knows that incendiary comments reduce her son's commercial opportunities.

If she were only interested in the NBA, she shouldn't have been encouraging him to choose Harvard/Amaker when Duke/K is the obvious path to the NBA.

If she were only interested in quick money, she shouldn't have encouraged him to consider a 2nd year at Duke, which she did AFTER his freshman year.

If she were only interested in self aggrandizement, she shouldn't have made clear that her son would be making the decisions.

If she were only interested in her own son's finances after a year of NCAA basketball, well, that would be weird... he was considered by the NBA to be the 7th best amateur basketball player in the world and is now rich.

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If Wendell's mother is simply money grubbing, she shouldn't be speaking out when she knows that incendiary comments reduce her son's commercial opportunities.

If she were only interested in the NBA, she shouldn't have been encouraging him to choose Harvard/Amaker when Duke/K is the obvious path to the NBA.

If she were only interested in quick money, she shouldn't have encouraged him to consider a 2nd year at Duke, which she did AFTER his freshman year.

If she were only interested in self aggrandizement, she shouldn't have made clear that her son would be making the decisions.

If she were only interested in her own son's finances after a year of NCAA basketball, well, that would be weird... he was considered by the NBA to be the 7th best amateur basketball player in the world and is now rich.

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

I am in the minority, but I agree with every word you posted. Sporks forthcoming.

Edit: Mod gods have deemed that I cannot offer you sporks today. My agreement must be sufficient.

[Furniture]

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.


What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

I have read quite a lot of this thread and

1) I didn’t notice any savaging or Wendall and
2) what I did read is a lot of questioning of a mother seeming criticizing K and Duke in giving preference to another player (Bags) to her sons detriment especially considering where he ended up.

Perfectly acceptable in my mind for a Duke fan to be disaponted with Wendell’s mother.

[1991 duke law]

If Wendell's mother is simply money grubbing, she shouldn't be speaking out when she knows that incendiary comments reduce her son's commercial opportunities.

If she were only interested in the NBA, she shouldn't have been encouraging him to choose Harvard/Amaker when Duke/K is the obvious path to the NBA.

If she were only interested in quick money, she shouldn't have encouraged him to consider a 2nd year at Duke, which she did AFTER his freshman year.

If she were only interested in self aggrandizement, she shouldn't have made clear that her son would be making the decisions.

If she were only interested in her own son's finances after a year of NCAA basketball, well, that would be weird... he was considered by the NBA to be the 7th best amateur basketball player in the world and is now rich.

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

Personally I welcome your post. Everyone has a right to their own view and perspective, and if it is supported with rational and fair analysis everyone benefits from the input.

I personally have nothing negative to say about Wendell as he has not said or done anything that I am aware of that would merit such commentary. Everything about him from day one through to today seems exemplary. What his mother says has nothing to do with what any of us should think about him.

Mrs. Carter is entitled to her views and opinions. But so is everyone else. And all one can expect is fair, rational and even handed discussions.

What Mrs. Carter truly wants or believes is not easy to discern from a couple of interviews. We all know that reporters want to spin and have no issue with taking comments out of context. So unless she is willing to sit down with us for a few hours to chat about issues, there is a large degree of speculation based on a limited amount of information.

I do not doubt that Mrs. Carter would have liked her son to be a Harvard graduate. I do not doubt that Mrs. Carter would have liked her son to have obtained a Duke degree. I also do not doubt that Mrs. Carter was supportive of a decision to attend a college that would maximize her son’s opportunity to bridge into a lucrative NBA contract. Finally, I do not doubt that Mrs. Carter was supportive of her son leaving college after one year to make millions of dollars.

I do not believe that everyone on this thread is throwing Mrs. Carter under a bus. However, they may disagree with her. This disagreement may be with part of what she has said, little of what she has said or much of what she has had. Certainly her last interview left a negative mark on Coach K. And that does not assist the Duke program. I should note – it may be what she has said is correct and fair. But it still does not help the Duke program.

So I do not agree with you that “respect is the proper response“ to everything Mrs. Carter has said. I do agree, however, that you have to be respectful in your disagreement with her.

[budwom]

^ good post. And I would note, having read much of what Mrs. Carter has said, that Mrs. Carter frequently does not agree with what Mrs. Carter has said.

[arnie]

If Wendell's mother is simply money grubbing, she shouldn't be speaking out when she knows that incendiary comments reduce her son's commercial opportunities.

If she were only interested in the NBA, she shouldn't have been encouraging him to choose Harvard/Amaker when Duke/K is the obvious path to the NBA.

If she were only interested in quick money, she shouldn't have encouraged him to consider a 2nd year at Duke, which she did AFTER his freshman year.

If she were only interested in self aggrandizement, she shouldn't have made clear that her son would be making the decisions.

If she were only interested in her own son's finances after a year of NCAA basketball, well, that would be weird... he was considered by the NBA to be the 7th best amateur basketball player in the world and is now rich.

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...system-slavery

I’m not that concerned with Mrs. Carter’s views regarding Duke or Coach K “lying”. For all I know he may have not been straightforward with her.

However, I simply can’t get past her slavery comparison. I find her comments extremely offensive and ignorant of US history and current sex slave trade practices. Also, the NBA draft assigns players to specific teams with players having no choice where to play. If one thinks NCAA engages in slavery, then why not the NBA.

[golfinesquire]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...system-slavery

I’m not that concerned with Mrs. Carter’s views regarding Duke or Coach K “lying”. For all I know he may have not been straightforward with her.

However, I simply can’t get past her slavery comparison. I find her comments extremely offensive and ignorant of US history and current sex slave trade practices. Also, the NBA draft assigns players to specific teams with players having no choice where to play. If one thinks NCAA engages in slavery, then why not the NBA.

The slavery comment was unfortunate but her point was cerainly woth considering. Universities make a lot of money off the basketball players. The coaches and admimistrators are predominantl white and the players predominantly black. She was trying to point out the absurdity of the system by noting that the only ones with such disparities were prisons and slavery. Did she go too far, sure. Could she have been better served by writing out what she meant so that her words were more carefully spoken, again sure. But I don’t think her comments show ignorance and given how much she and her son loved Duke, any claim that she was likening his experience there to slavery, to me, is silly and shows a definite patronizing and mansplaining. I am not calling you out Arnie, I am making a more general reference to the comments that have gone back and forth. The students don’t have the power to take on the NCAA but she is willing to and I for one think that is grrat.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The slavery comment was unfortunate but her point was cerainly woth considering. Universities make a lot of money off the basketball players. .

And on the other hand, the players get a lot of notoriety, amazing travel, the best medical care and equipment, and a built in fawning fan base and great training off of the universities...there are no losers here, and to pretend otherwise is absurd.

[sagegrouse]

The slavery comment was unfortunate but her point was cerainly woth considering. Universities make a lot of money off the basketball players. The coaches and admimistrators are predominantl white and the players predominantly black. She was trying to point out the absurdity of the system by noting that the only ones with such disparities were prisons and slavery. Did she go too far, sure. Could she have been better served by writing out what she meant so that her words were more carefully spoken, again sure. But I don’t think her comments show ignorance and given how much she and her son loved Duke, any claim that she was likening his experience there to slavery, to me, is silly and shows a definite patronizing and mansplaining. I am not calling you out Arnie, I am making a more general reference to the comments that have gone back and forth. The students don’t have the power to take on the NCAA but she is willing to and I for one think that is grrat.

Her legitimate complaint is primarily that the NBA will not accept players younger than 19, so he passed up on some level of NBA income plus endorsements for one year. OK, legitimate beef -- but it is only one year, agreed to by the NBPA and enshrined in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. So he waited a year and then inked a deal worth a minimum of $10 million. I can't work up any sympathy for the 12-month delay. Moreover, lots of professions have entry limitations

Secondarily, she is ostensibly criticizing the colleges for not allowing a player to earn a competitive salary for (in Wendell's case) his one year in school by not allowing "bidding for players" or outside income. We have had loads of intelligent discussion on this topic on DBR. I personally support the NCAA's "amateur" or "student-athlete" model where all scholarship athletes are paid the same. It protects competition and it leads to loads and loads of scholarships for athletes in non-revenue sports. Others think that a more market-oriented solution would be preferable, even if it runs the risk of upsetting the college sports apple cart. But, for heaven's sakes Ms. Carter, Wendell was a one-and-done player from the git-go, and it's only 12 months between high school and a multi-million dollar professional contract.

I think we can be spared the histrionics.

[Furniture]

She can complain about the NCAA all she likes but if she complains about Duke then I am up for a fight (well not really).

[rsvman]

If Wendell's mother is simply money grubbing, she shouldn't be speaking out when she knows that incendiary comments reduce her son's commercial opportunities.

If she were only interested in the NBA, she shouldn't have been encouraging him to choose Harvard/Amaker when Duke/K is the obvious path to the NBA.

If she were only interested in quick money, she shouldn't have encouraged him to consider a 2nd year at Duke, which she did AFTER his freshman year.

If she were only interested in self aggrandizement, she shouldn't have made clear that her son would be making the decisions.

If she were only interested in her own son's finances after a year of NCAA basketball, well, that would be weird... he was considered by the NBA to be the 7th best amateur basketball player in the world and is now rich.

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

IMO, the first 5 sentences of your post demonstrate pretty clearly that she doesn't really know what she is trying to say. She hasn't really thought through her position clearly before speaking. She comes across as reactionary rather than rational.

In general, people are better served by thinking a bit more before speaking, and this applies doubly to somebody in the public eye as she has been.



To be clear, I don't think she's being disingenuous and I don't think she is intentionally trying to hurt Duke or Coach K. On the other hand, it certainly isn't irrational or mean to believe that the entire situation would be improved by her taking some time to think before she speaks.

[Sir Stealth]

Her willingness to speak candidly was not, imho, about money or fame or protecting her son's PT. It's about seeking her version of the truth. And truth is complicated.

Most athletes--including Tiger and Michael--serve up baby food to their fans. Why? I assume they've been told that they will lose sponsors if they are seen as threatening to their middle class audience (with "threatening" meaning "black" and "middle class" meaning "white.").

The reason that I enter this fray is not to test the moderators or the civility of DBR but because one of our own--Wendell Carter--is being savaged on this thread when he, himself, has said nothing negative about Duke. That is, to me, unacceptable.

His mother has said quite a lot about institutional structure, power, and race. You may believe we are in a post racial society or that people should just shut up about potential discrimination (against athletes, the powerless, minorities, etc), especially when they are getting free tuition and possibly even NBA wealth. Maybe you'd just rather watch basketball and not have to engage in a discussion. I have my views. You have yours. Fine. None of that is DBR material.

What is specific to a DBR thread is that people are throwing the mother of a player under a bus because she decided to address the complexity and paradox of college/professional sport--and despite the fact that she concludes her discussions with love and appreciation for Duke. In essence, Mrs. Carter appears to be saying that--regardless of circumstances--she is going to speak her mind, which presumably she will do long after the tv cameras shift to other subjects.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one of our own is trying to do the right thing, I believe that respect is our proper response.

This is a thoughtful comment, except that it seems to be responding to a thread other than the one on this board. My impression is that most who have weighed in have expressed positive thoughts about Wendell even if they are disappointed about how this has gone. Many have agreed with the general sentiment that issues raised by Mrs. Carter with regards to race and labor are valid and should be taken seriously, even if they take issue with the clarity of her message as it's been presented in the media, or the intersection of her comments on the subject with Wendell's experience at Duke. I have not seen much "savaging" of anyone, or an expression of the belief that anyone should just shut up about discrimination.

One can be respectful of someone and the subject matter that they are discussing without agreeing that they have made their point clearly or fairly (especially with regard to Duke). Engaging with the substance of the comments does not disparage Mrs. Carter's ability to speak her mind. And I think that most who have been critical are happy to see positive comments about Duke that have come out from the Carters since a lot of what generated this discussion. But a more effective defense of Wendell and his Mom would address the actual criticism of their comments that's taken place rather than whatever ignorant, disrespectful piling on of the Carters has been imagined here.

[jacone21]

Still?

[Newton_14]

Folks, I think we have covered every angle of this and said all that needs saying. Time to move past this.