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  1. #1581
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  2. #1582
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post



    With Jalen Johnson being a poor shooter, he ideally should spend some time as a small-ball 5 anyway, imo. For me, the allure of getting Dickinson is to spread the risk of "not good enough to start" across two top-35-ish prospects in Williams and Dickinson instead of just one of them. Typically players ranked where Williams and Dickinson are ranked aren't even in the rotation at Duke their freshman year, so I'm somewhat nervous about counting on one to be a quality starter as a freshman. That said, if you can guarantee me that Mark Williams will provide 25 mpg of consistent (i.e. stays healthy, usually avoids foul trouble), quality center play, I'm not really that concerned about having a backup center. As mentioned, Jalen Johnson should be playing some small-ball 5 in finishing lineups anyway. Something like Steward - Moore - Baker - Brakefield - Johnson would be intriguing.

    But, as mentioned, since we can't guarantee that from Mark, then let's spread the risk across two prospects if possible.
    To me, the thought of having two true center sized guys next year trumps the problem of freshmen big men only playing 25 minutes. That can be due to physical conditioning, probability of fouling and possibility of being injured. Having two 35ish big men would mean they could push each other. I don't see a lot of competition at center in the 2020/2021 season with Carey and Javin both leaving.

  3. #1583
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    To me, the thought of having two true center sized guys next year trumps the problem of freshmen big men only playing 25 minutes. That can be due to physical conditioning, probability of fouling and possibility of being injured. Having two 35ish big men would mean they could push each other. I don't see a lot of competition at center in the 2020/2021 season with Carey and Javin both leaving.
    I would be pretty shocked honestly if we started the season with Mark Williams as the only recruited player taller than 6'8". I think it would be a very bad idea to not have someone as at least injury insurance, whether it ends up being a grad transfer, a reclassification, or a 2020 player ranked in the 40s or 50s.

  4. #1584
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Grant at the 5

    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    In fact, I think he will draw some Grant Hill comparisons next season. He's similar in size and skill set to Grant, who as far as I know, never played center at Duke.
    I'm pretty sure Grant played the 5 (in the sense that he defended the other team's biggest player) a few times, due to injuries to others. In fact, I'm pretty sure I fondly remember a game at GT where K gave Laettner a rest, making Hill the biggest player on the floor for Duke. But Grant was playing point that game, because Hurley had a broken foot. Cremins didn't realize and when Grant brought the ball into the halfcourt, GT was scrambling to figure out defensive assignments, and their center, Matt Geiger, ended up trying to stay with Grant. Grant drove the lane and drew a foul on Geiger, of course.

    But your basic point is correct: Grant didn't play the 5 very often.

  5. #1585
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Henry Coleman at 6'8 240+ and BrakesField at 6'9 230+ will be fine at the center size wise. It's more the lack of experience / talent that I am worried about.

  6. #1586
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).
    I think this is spot on. And I think with his body type, Mark Williams can log 25-30 min a game as long as he stays out of foul trouble.

    That said, I'm in the camp that we still need a second true center for backup duty, to compete with and push Williams in practice, and as insurance in case Williams is injured. We may elect to go small ball 10-20 min a game with Jalen Johnson or Matthew Hurt or someone else at the 5, but I don't think that negates the need to bring in another recruit or a grad transfer.

  7. #1587
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Henry Coleman at 6'8 240+ and BrakesField at 6'9 230+ will be fine at the center size wise. It's more the lack of experience / talent that I am worried about.
    Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

    FWIW.

    https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/m...ing-class.aspx

  8. #1588
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

    FWIW.

    https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/m...ing-class.aspx
    Yeah, Henry Coleman is NOT 240 pounds.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  9. #1589
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

    FWIW.

    https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/m...ing-class.aspx
    WW? Jenny Craig? I'm pretty sure over the past week or so I found whatever lbs they may have lost.

  10. #1590
    Has Duke shown any interest in Terrence Williams, the 6'6" PF that de-committed from Georgetown recently. I know they kicked the tires early in the recruiting process.

  11. #1591
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

    FWIW.

    https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/m...ing-class.aspx
    Hmm I remember reading Coleman being 6'7 238.

    https://jerryratcliffe.com/virginia-top-50-prospect-henry-coleman-announces-decision-timeline/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjDkInP9qHmAhVWu54KHb0DCt8QFjAAegQIBRAB &usg=AOvVaw3D0SFRZPqDxnpBmmtEJNgt&ampcf=1

    I am extrapolating their height and weight upon enrollment. Our recruits usually gain / lose up to 20 lbs between commitment and season opening.

  12. #1592
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I know we've quibbled about heights and weights before, and for sure some of those listed, even on the roster, are at times just plain wrong...but can Hurt really weigh 214?

  13. #1593
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I know we've quibbled about heights and weights before, and for sure some of those listed, even on the roster, are at times just plain wrong...but can Hurt really weigh 214?
    Hmm, I'd say he weighs about 5 cinderblocks.

  14. #1594
    6'9", 214 lbs is very thin. But if anything, he does look to me like he might have lost weight since the start of the season. I'd trade metabolisms with him for a couple of months.

  15. #1595
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Reddevil View Post
    Hmm, I'd say he weighs about 5 cinderblocks.
    on a similar note, the Brits would say he weighs 15 stones, not sure how that translates into cinderblocks...speaking of which, is that a term not used in the South?
    I went looking for some near Wilmington NC one time, got a blank look on the term, though ceee-ment block did merit recognition...

  16. #1596
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Hmm I remember reading Coleman being 6'7 238.

    https://jerryratcliffe.com/virginia-...tEJNgt&ampcf=1

    I am extrapolating their height and weight upon enrollment. Our recruits usually gain / lose up to 20 lbs between commitment and season opening.
    Won't concern me at all. Next year I'll be living in the lap of luxury on a tropical island.

    Of course, I'm extrapolating winning the lottery.

    Note to self; buy a lottery ticket.

  17. #1597
    Yeah, not sure where this 20lb extrapolation comes from.

    I watched Wendell Carter pretty closely in HS and at Duke. He had a great frame for adding weight and he definitely turned some baby fat into muscle between his senior year of HS and freshman year at Duke. But I'd be surprised if he added even 10lbs...

  18. #1598
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).
    Does it really work that way? I can't say for sure one way or the other, since I haven't' seen enough of Mark Williams' game to have an opinion on his ability, but if he were truly a 5* talent on defense, especially as a center, I would probably rate him as a 5 star overall. Who cares if your center has no offensive game, if he's elite defensively? All you need your center to do is grab rebounds, dunk the ball, protect the rim, and set screens. If you're great at those things, you're probably already a 5* recruit. There's tons of top tier centers, even in the NBA who can't play any offense, but are valuable for their defensive ability.

    So if he's really that good on defense, I think he would just be a 5* overall. Or, maybe you're right, and he will end up as a 5* by the end of this season. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. Cassius Stanley is obviously a 4* player who has wildly exceeded expectations.

  19. #1599
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Does it really work that way? I can't say for sure one way or the other, since I haven't' seen enough of Mark Williams' game to have an opinion on his ability, but if he were truly a 5* talent on defense, especially as a center, I would probably rate him as a 5 star overall. Who cares if your center has no offensive game, if he's elite defensively? All you need your center to do is grab rebounds, dunk the ball, protect the rim, and set screens. If you're great at those things, you're probably already a 5* recruit. There's tons of top tier centers, even in the NBA who can't play any offense, but are valuable for their defensive ability.

    So if he's really that good on defense, I think he would just be a 5* overall. Or, maybe you're right, and he will end up as a 5* by the end of this season. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. Cassius Stanley is obviously a 4* player who has wildly exceeded expectations.
    kaze, do you think centers are rated on how they will perform in the pros? From what I've read on the NBA thread, the new pro center is able to stretch the floor and make 3 pointers. I really don't have an idea because I don't watch many NBA games. . GoDuke!

  20. #1600
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    For all the hand-wringing over Duke's bigs next season, last night's game was pretty illuminating. There were long stretches of that game where Jack White was the biggest Dukie on the floor and it was not uncommon for Wendell Moore or Joey Baker to be the next biggest dude out there. I get that Va Tech is a small team that eschews having anyone play in the post but it was still interesting to see how effective this Duke team a team can be with zero post players in the lineup (White may be a nominal PF, but he is not someone you feed on the blocks).

    -Jason "worth noting, I see very little chance Duke would play such a lineup against, for example, Kansas's many bigs... but still it is worth noting" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

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