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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I was only responding to your assertion that kessler might not be a starter...I strongly dispute that, but I guess we'll never know. Kuminga, Johnson and Kessler would be a nice trio together...
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Sigh, would you please stop injecting logic and thought into my feeble attempts at rationalizing what would have been a really nice kid to have on the team. Grrrrr.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    If it makes you feel better, Kuminga, Johnson, and Mark Williams might be an elite defensive frontcourt.

    I had this thought that Kuminga was more of a G/F until watching more of his highlights and reading various scouting reports. The comp I am getting is a lot more like Harry Giles III as a junior. Kid has unlimited bounce, a terror at the rim and on the boards, can run for days and maybe drain a jumper every now and then. He seems to be about 2 inches shorter than Giles was at the time. Kuminga and Johnson are an intriguing pairing in the frontcourt. And Williams as a shot blocking/rebounding/rim-running center is not a bad pairing, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    Forgive my ignorance, but that trio sounds like a spacing mess, no? Having three players on the floor together who can't threaten a defense with shooting could be problematic. That said, the thought of Johnson & Kuminga together running the break puts a smile on my face.
    Responding to different parts of all these posts.

    My sense of it is that the coaches' if-everything-went-according-to-plan Master Plan included Duke starting Kuminga, Johnson, and Kessler at the 3/4/5, respectively. You just have to look at Kuminga and Jalen's extremely weak shooting numbers in EYBL (when I'm not lazy, I'll link them) and it becomes clear that Kessler would've been the perfect fit to those two rim attackers. Kuminga rebounds like a SF (I think something like 5 rebs/gm), so it would not be ideal to play him at PF or C. Moreover, we can expect that Johnson and Kuminga would wear down over the course of the season if they had to start at C and PF respectively. We need a center. Hopefully one that can shoot.

    Welp, things obviously didn't go according to plan, and now we'll have to scramble a bit. Our coaches are good at scrambling, and I'm excited to see what they can come up with.

  2. #1022
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Our coaches are good at scrambling, and I'm excited to see what they can come up with.
    I'm wondering if we reconsider asking Paolo Banchero to reclass to 2020.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  3. #1023
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I expected Duke to get all three of Kessler, M. Williams and Coleman and I expected Kessler to start next season.

    For the record.

    Duke definitely needs two centers from this class. K has more positional fluidity than most coaches but I'll believe the he-doesn't-believe-in-positions-mantra the next time I see him start five 6-4 players.

  4. #1024
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    It makes me wonder what's going on at these high school that kids can so easily reclassify.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Zion033090 View Post
    It makes me wonder what's going on at these high school that kids can so easily reclassify.
    Parents understandably don't want to foot the bill for college education. If their kid has athletic potential, they will try to maximize his/her odds of getting an athletic scholarship. If you hold him/her back a year, he/she will be more physically developed than peers, will be more likely to dominate, and be more likely to attract college attention.

    Some kids are so supremely talented that, at some point, it becomes obvious that they didn't need to be held back a year. And so these kids re-classify back to their original class instead of wasting another year in high school.

  6. #1026
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Parents understandably don't want to foot the bill for college education. If their kid has athletic potential, they will try to maximize his/her odds of getting an athletic scholarship. If you hold him/her back a year, he/she will be more physically developed than peers, will be more likely to dominate, and be more likely to attract college attention.

    Some kids are so supremely talented that, at some point, it becomes obvious that they didn't need to be held back a year. And so these kids re-classify back to their original class instead of wasting another year in high school.
    That makes sense, but it seems a little fishy to me.

  7. #1027
    We'll never compete in recruiting, if the Tar Heels keep invoking the name "Luke Maye" to lure elite recruits.


  8. #1028
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mount, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Zion033090 View Post
    That makes sense, but it seems a little fishy to me.
    By the time I was a senior (1997) I only lacked an English class to graduate. In theory I could have taken that class in the summer (5 weeks) and boom high school over in 3 years. I imagine that could be the case with some of them.

  9. #1029
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow View Post
    We'll never compete in recruiting, if the Tar Heels keep invoking the name "Luke Maye" to lure elite recruits.

    MFW we lose a player to UNC due to academics (no undergrad business program) and Luke Maye.

    I also believe that all the comparison of him to Laettner and Grayson Allen probably wasn't helping us.
    Last edited by proelitedota; 09-23-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Zion033090 View Post
    That makes sense, but it seems a little fishy to me.
    a lot depends on the school. The private HS i went to is a football factory .. several D1 kids every year... but has never in 60+ years allowed early graduation so a recruit could do spring practice on campus. They won't budge and I assume a lot of other private high schools are the same. Schools in the south seem to be more free with early graduation and the diploma mills are like choose your own adventure.

  11. #1031
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    I'm looking at Jonathan Kuminga's stats and I am not convinced he'll be able to play the 5 for any stretch. He doesn't seem to have big rebound numbers.

  12. #1032
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by frb View Post
    a lot depends on the school. The private HS i went to is a football factory .. several D1 kids every year... but has never in 60+ years allowed early graduation so a recruit could do spring practice on campus. They won't budge and I assume a lot of other private high schools are the same. Schools in the south seem to be more free with early graduation and the diploma mills are like choose your own adventure.
    Keep in mind that there's a big difference between a basketball player reclassing and coming into college a full year-maybe 14 months--early and a football player graduating a semester early and enrolling for spring practice.

  13. #1033
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    He could have been the next Laettner. Instead, he’ll be the next Tony Bradley.

  14. #1034
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    I'm really upset about the Kessler news. The way this roster is shaping up for 2020-21, the one thing we absolutely need is a stretch big, especially someone who can play center. Now that guy is on another team that we have to play against at least twice . . .

    I know we're pretty spoiled with recruiting, but this one in particular feels really bad, maybe even worse than Harrison Barnes. I hope we can get a good transfer or something.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by frb View Post
    a lot depends on the school. The private HS i went to is a football factory .. several D1 kids every year... but has never in 60+ years allowed early graduation so a recruit could do spring practice on campus. They won't budge and I assume a lot of other private high schools are the same. Schools in the south seem to be more free with early graduation and the diploma mills are like choose your own adventure.
    I believe that this is exactly what happened with Alex Murphy, when he decided to re-classify in his junior year so he could come to Duke a year early (apparently at the behest of the Duke basketball coaches) and the private high school that he was then attending in Massachusetts (and also my alma mater) would not allow him to "graduate" a year early; so he left the private school in the spring semester of his junior year and then re-enrolled in the public high school in his home town in Rhode Island who then allowed him to graduate a year early (I believe he had stayed back a year when he first went to the private school). I find the whole high school/college athletic "industrial complex" to be an increasing slippery slope of questionable ethics, academics and monetary improprieties/criminal activities. But given the amount of money flowing through the entire system, no one has the power and the guts to put up a good fight.

  16. #1036
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I know we're pretty spoiled with recruiting, but this one in particular feels really bad, maybe even worse than Harrison Barnes. I hope we can get a good transfer or something.
    No way is this worse than Harrison Barnes. I made a joke about it earlier, but this isn't even on the same planet. I know you remember the details, but for anyone who does not, when Barnes committed to the CHeats in the fall of 2009:

    - UNC had just won the title, their second in five years, and had another loaded team for the upcoming season. They were on top of the world.
    - We had just gotten blown out in embarrasing fashion by Villanova, had not made a final four since 2004 and hadn't even really been close.
    - Head to head we were getting dominated by the CHeats, it literally felt to me like we might never beat them again (which was an overreaction, but a reasonable emotion at the time)
    - Gerald Henderson had recently announced he was leaving early (not a huge surprise, but still a major bummer)
    - Elliot Williams unexpectedly transferred, citing family health concerns. He was expected to play a major role in the upcoming season
    - Olek Cyzk announced he would also transfer, leaving us with two scholarship guards on the roster
    - Our only glimmer of hope was that we had Kyrie Irving committed for the following season (we didn't even know at the time exactly HOW good he would be) and we were the heavy favorites for Barnes. Having those two would at least give us a puncher's chance at beating the CHeats.
    - Unsubstantiated rumors were flying around that Barnes had already verbally committed to us. This was before Twitter and such, but excitement was building for the 2010-2011 season. It was already assumed that 2009-2010 would be a throwaway season, I recall one prominent article in the local paper that suggested we should "tank" the season and play the younger guys in preparation for the following season when we might actually have a chance at doing something.
    - Barnes's commitment was one of the most hyped announcements ever up until that time. He got to the podium and announced that he would attend the school whose coach he was about to Skype (which most people didn't even know of). Then we see Ol' Roy's ugly mug and his whole team in that ugly blue, smiling and grinning and knowing he'd just swindled us.

    My blood pressure rises just thinking about that moment. But the rest, as they say, is history...

    Compared to missing out on Kessler, we already have three five-stars committed, we have plenty of time to regroup and target another center (the recruiting cycle is much shorter now than it was in 2009), and our program as a whole is in terrific shape. We'll be fine.

  17. #1037
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    No way is this worse than Harrison Barnes. I made a joke about it earlier, but this isn't even on the same planet. I know you remember the details, but for anyone who does not, when Barnes committed to the CHeats in the fall of 2009:

    - UNC had just won the title, their second in five years, and had another loaded team for the upcoming season. They were on top of the world.
    - We had just gotten blown out in embarrasing fashion by Villanova, had not made a final four since 2004 and hadn't even really been close.
    - Head to head we were getting dominated by the CHeats, it literally felt to me like we might never beat them again (which was an overreaction, but a reasonable emotion at the time)
    - Gerald Henderson had recently announced he was leaving early (not a huge surprise, but still a major bummer)
    - Elliot Williams unexpectedly transferred, citing family health concerns. He was expected to play a major role in the upcoming season
    - Olek Cyzk announced he would also transfer, leaving us with two scholarship guards on the roster
    - Our only glimmer of hope was that we had Kyrie Irving committed for the following season (we didn't even know at the time exactly HOW good he would be) and we were the heavy favorites for Barnes. Having those two would at least give us a puncher's chance at beating the CHeats.
    - Unsubstantiated rumors were flying around that Barnes had already verbally committed to us. This was before Twitter and such, but excitement was building for the 2010-2011 season. It was already assumed that 2009-2010 would be a throwaway season, I recall one prominent article in the local paper that suggested we should "tank" the season and play the younger guys in preparation for the following season when we might actually have a chance at doing something.
    - Barnes's commitment was one of the most hyped announcements ever up until that time. He got to the podium and announced that he would attend the school whose coach he was about to Skype (which most people didn't even know of). Then we see Ol' Roy's ugly mug and his whole team in that ugly blue, smiling and grinning and knowing he'd just swindled us.

    My blood pressure rises just thinking about that moment. But the rest, as they say, is history...

    Compared to missing out on Kessler, we already have three five-stars committed, we have plenty of time to regroup and target another center (the recruiting cycle is much shorter now than it was in 2009), and our program as a whole is in terrific shape. We'll be fine.
    And the prevailing narrative was that K had lost his ability to recruit.

    A bit of a quibble. Czyz was never a guard and he didn't transfer until semester break of the 2009-'10 season by which point Andre Dawkins had given Duke its third scholarship guard.

    And Kyrie Irving was coming.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    That's an odd argument to make. Marshall Plumlee was a McDonald's All-American and will almost certainly play more NBA games than Luke Maye in their respective careers.
    Yeah, but please don't even (with a straight face, at least) argue that Maye wasn't a MUCH better college player than Marshall.
    If the janitor is not a Tarheel, then why is the water in the toilet Carolina blue?

    Historically, this UNC team is alarmingly unacademic.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Parents understandably don't want to foot the bill for college education. If their kid has athletic potential, they will try to maximize his/her odds of getting an athletic scholarship. If you hold him/her back a year, he/she will be more physically developed than peers, will be more likely to dominate, and be more likely to attract college attention.

    Some kids are so supremely talented that, at some point, it becomes obvious that they didn't need to be held back a year. And so these kids re-classify back to their original class instead of wasting another year in high school.
    One of my friends, a multiple year all pro D back, told me the exact thing about keeping his son back a year. Unfortunately it didn't work out, at least for Div 1 schools. The boy didn't progress.

  20. #1040
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    No way is this worse than Harrison Barnes. I made a joke about it earlier, but this isn't even on the same planet. I know you remember the details, but for anyone who does not, when Barnes committed to the CHeats in the fall of 2009:

    - UNC had just won the title, their second in five years, and had another loaded team for the upcoming season. They were on top of the world.
    - We had just gotten blown out in embarrasing fashion by Villanova, had not made a final four since 2004 and hadn't even really been close.
    - Head to head we were getting dominated by the CHeats, it literally felt to me like we might never beat them again (which was an overreaction, but a reasonable emotion at the time)
    - Gerald Henderson had recently announced he was leaving early (not a huge surprise, but still a major bummer)
    - Elliot Williams unexpectedly transferred, citing family health concerns. He was expected to play a major role in the upcoming season
    - Olek Cyzk announced he would also transfer, leaving us with two scholarship guards on the roster
    - Our only glimmer of hope was that we had Kyrie Irving committed for the following season (we didn't even know at the time exactly HOW good he would be) and we were the heavy favorites for Barnes. Having those two would at least give us a puncher's chance at beating the CHeats.
    - Unsubstantiated rumors were flying around that Barnes had already verbally committed to us. This was before Twitter and such, but excitement was building for the 2010-2011 season. It was already assumed that 2009-2010 would be a throwaway season, I recall one prominent article in the local paper that suggested we should "tank" the season and play the younger guys in preparation for the following season when we might actually have a chance at doing something.
    - Barnes's commitment was one of the most hyped announcements ever up until that time. He got to the podium and announced that he would attend the school whose coach he was about to Skype (which most people didn't even know of). Then we see Ol' Roy's ugly mug and his whole team in that ugly blue, smiling and grinning and knowing he'd just swindled us.

    My blood pressure rises just thinking about that moment. But the rest, as they say, is history...

    Compared to missing out on Kessler, we already have three five-stars committed, we have plenty of time to regroup and target another center (the recruiting cycle is much shorter now than it was in 2009), and our program as a whole is in terrific shape. We'll be fine.
    Furthermore, Barnes was RSCI rated number one or very close to that while Kessler is at 14...

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