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  1. #421
    I don't think it's any coincidence Cunningham's offer came as news of Boston leaning towards Kentucky surfaced. They can definitely coexist .. I don't think it's either or... but could be a little nudge to Boston saying hey we have options, too.

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    Um . . . is it just me or does Cade Cunningham look like a WAY better recruit as a OAD prospect? I'm not gonna debate about potential, as they both seem like very skilled players, but Cade looks like's MUCH further along with his body, and his feel for the game is incredible. Check out some of these passes.

    Brandon is the same height (6'6"), maybe a bit longer, but is listed at 175 compared to Cade's solid 215. He also seems like he's more of a pure scorer than a guy who can be a dual threat to both score and set up his teammates, like Cade appears to be.

    If we have to pick only 1 of these 2 guys to have for one year, I'll take the kid who's physically ready for the ACC.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Um . . . is it just me or does Cade Cunningham look like a WAY better recruit as a OAD prospect? I'm not gonna debate about potential, as they both seem like very skilled players, but Cade looks like's MUCH further along with his body, and his feel for the game is incredible. Check out some of these passes.

    Brandon is the same height (6'6"), maybe a bit longer, but is listed at 175 compared to Cade's solid 215. He also seems like he's more of a pure scorer than a guy who can be a dual threat to both score and set up his teammates, like Cade appears to be.

    If we have to pick only 1 of these 2 guys to have for one year, I'll take the kid who's physically ready for the ACC.
    In a vacuum, I would lean towards Cunningham as well (although I think the margin is smaller than you).

    BUT, Duke has already received a commitment from a PG in Jeremy Roach, and Duke is considered a strong leader for a point-forward in Jalen Johnson. We need to add a knockdown shooter or two to complement those creators. Basically, let's not repeat the mistake from this past season* where we have too many creators and not enough shooters to spread the court, and every opponent plays us the exact same way with a packed-in defense.

    * (As always, it should be noted that we did earn the overall #1 seed. But, generally it's a good idea to have offensive pieces that fit together**. I wouldn't count on a 75% 2-pt shooter like Zion to be on the team to bail us out on offense, nor should we count on the defensive pieces fitting together quite so nicely again. Let's have a sensible offense with sensible spacing. Please.)

    ** Of course, if Jalen Johnson ends up turning down Duke, then Cade Cunningham rises immensely in value. But a couple of shooters should be non-negotiable regardless.

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    In a vacuum, I would lean towards Cunningham as well (although I think the margin is smaller than you).

    BUT, Duke has already received a commitment from a PG in Jeremy Roach, and Duke is considered a strong leader for a point-forward in Jalen Johnson. We need to add a knockdown shooter or two to complement those creators. Basically, let's not repeat the mistake from this past season* where we have too many creators and not enough shooters to spread the court, and every opponent plays us the exact same way with a packed-in defense.

    * (As always, it should be noted that we did earn the overall #1 seed. But, generally it's a good idea to have offensive pieces that fit together**. I wouldn't count on a 75% 2-pt shooter like Zion to be on the team to bail us out on offense, nor should we count on the defensive pieces fitting together quite so nicely again. Let's have a sensible offense with sensible spacing. Please.)

    ** Of course, if Jalen Johnson ends up turning down Duke, then Cade Cunningham rises immensely in value. But a couple of shooters should be non-negotiable regardless.
    Well, ideally, the playmakers can ALSO shoot. The problem wasn't that we had too many creators, it was that the creators weren't great shooters.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    In a vacuum, I would lean towards Cunningham as well (although I think the margin is smaller than you).

    BUT, Duke has already received a commitment from a PG in Jeremy Roach, and Duke is considered a strong leader for a point-forward in Jalen Johnson. We need to add a knockdown shooter or two to complement those creators. Basically, let's not repeat the mistake from this past season* where we have too many creators and not enough shooters to spread the court, and every opponent plays us the exact same way with a packed-in defense.

    * (As always, it should be noted that we did earn the overall #1 seed. But, generally it's a good idea to have offensive pieces that fit together**. I wouldn't count on a 75% 2-pt shooter like Zion to be on the team to bail us out on offense, nor should we count on the defensive pieces fitting together quite so nicely again. Let's have a sensible offense with sensible spacing. Please.)

    ** Of course, if Jalen Johnson ends up turning down Duke, then Cade Cunningham rises immensely in value. But a couple of shooters should be non-negotiable regardless.
    I gotta think senior AOC + Junior Joey Baker (if he’s here...who knows maybe he has a Kennard like soph year, but that would be unexpected) would provide plenty of floor spacing. Both guys have great size for the 2 or 3 spot if they can play decent defense (and if AOC can eat a few more steaks between now and then).

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Um . . . is it just me or does Cade Cunningham look like a WAY better recruit as a OAD prospect? I'm not gonna debate about potential, as they both seem like very skilled players, but Cade looks like's MUCH further along with his body, and his feel for the game is incredible. Check out some of these passes.

    Brandon is the same height (6'6"), maybe a bit longer, but is listed at 175 compared to Cade's solid 215. He also seems like he's more of a pure scorer than a guy who can be a dual threat to both score and set up his teammates, like Cade appears to be.

    If we have to pick only 1 of these 2 guys to have for one year, I'll take the kid who's physically ready for the ACC.
    Just reading about him. Seems like he is very successful at the highest level of prep basketball, both on the Nike circuit, and playing for Montverde Academy where RJ Barrett starred. That, plus the physical development noted, appears to make him well prepared for ACC basketball.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    I gotta think senior AOC + Junior Joey Baker (if he’s here...who knows maybe he has a Kennard like soph year, but that would be unexpected) would provide plenty of floor spacing. Both guys have great size for the 2 or 3 spot if they can play decent defense (and if AOC can eat a few more steaks between now and then).
    How are you defining "plenty" here? While starting 1 good shooter is better than last season, I'm trying to get back to the (not so distant) days when Duke was putting 4 good shooters on the court simultaneously.

    This isn't anything against Cade Cunningham. I love him, and he might be the best player in the class. It's only in the very specific scenario mentioned where Duke already has a committed point guard and Duke is additionally considered the strong leader for a point-forward, and neither of those guys have a great reputation for shooting yet... under that very specific scenario, I do think I'd prefer a great shooter over Cade.

    Joey / AOC don't change the equation much. If we successfully sign these prospects we're talking about, then a reasonable projected starting lineup would be:
    PG Roach, W Cunningham, W Baker, PF Johnson, [C Kessler?]. Most likely, only one of Joey or AOC would start. Those 4 freshmen in the projected lineup will need to be able to shoot.

    But things change quickly in high school recruiting. Maybe Jalen Johnson ends up snubbing Duke; he has referred to Kentucky as his dream school. Maybe Cade develops into a great shooter. (Or maybe Roach or Johnson does).

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    NC Raised, DC Resident
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    How are you defining "plenty" here? While starting 1 good shooter is better than last season, I'm trying to get back to the (not so distant) days when Duke was putting 4 good shooters on the court simultaneously.

    This isn't anything against Cade Cunningham. I love him, and he might be the best player in the class. It's only in the very specific scenario mentioned where Duke already has a committed point guard and Duke is additionally considered the strong leader for a point-forward, and neither of those guys have a great reputation for shooting yet... under that very specific scenario, I do think I'd prefer a great shooter over Cade.

    Joey / AOC don't change the equation much. If we successfully sign these prospects we're talking about, then a reasonable projected starting lineup would be:
    PG Roach, W Cunningham, W Baker, PF Johnson, [C Kessler?]. Most likely, only one of Joey or AOC would start. Those 4 freshmen in the projected lineup will need to be able to shoot.

    But things change quickly in high school recruiting. Maybe Jalen Johnson ends up snubbing Duke; he has referred to Kentucky as his dream school. Maybe Cade develops into a great shooter. (Or maybe Roach or Johnson does).
    Is BJ Boston the better shooter? I'm confused--are you suggesting you'd prefer Boston over Cunningham because of potential fit in the roster, or are you suggesting the staff eschew both in favor of loading up on other (likely lower-rated) prospects because of shooting?
    Haters gonna hate.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    Is BJ Boston the better shooter? I'm confused--are you suggesting you'd prefer Boston over Cunningham because of potential fit in the roster, or are you suggesting the staff eschew both in favor of loading up on other (likely lower-rated) prospects because of shooting?
    Give me both. I definitely want Cunningham.

    All I'm saying is if Duke somehow already has Roach (a point guard) and Jalen Johnson (a point forward) and we're forced to choose between Boston and Cunningham as the next commit, then Boston probably complements Roach and Johnson better than Cunningham because Boston is known for his shooting and is more of a pure SG. Cunningham would basically be a 3rd player that is most comfortable as the primary ball-handler. (Note: Cunningham is currently shooting better than Boston on threes in EYBL, although that might be a small sample thing on Boston's part; Boston is shooting better on free throws.)

    It's a false choice, though. Maybe we can get both.

  10. #430
    And just to be extra clear, if Duke had to start the class from scratch (i.e. no need to worry about players that have already committed or are likely to commit) and could pick-and-choose whomever we wanted, I would take Cunningham first above all the players already mentioned, make him my PG and build around him.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    How are you defining "plenty" here? While starting 1 good shooter is better than last season, I'm trying to get back to the (not so distant) days when Duke was putting 4 good shooters on the court simultaneously.

    This isn't anything against Cade Cunningham. I love him, and he might be the best player in the class. It's only in the very specific scenario mentioned where Duke already has a committed point guard and Duke is additionally considered the strong leader for a point-forward, and neither of those guys have a great reputation for shooting yet... under that very specific scenario, I do think I'd prefer a great shooter over Cade.

    Joey / AOC don't change the equation much. If we successfully sign these prospects we're talking about, then a reasonable projected starting lineup would be:
    PG Roach, W Cunningham, W Baker, PF Johnson, [C Kessler?]. Most likely, only one of Joey or AOC would start. Those 4 freshmen in the projected lineup will need to be able to shoot.

    But things change quickly in high school recruiting. Maybe Jalen Johnson ends up snubbing Duke; he has referred to Kentucky as his dream school. Maybe Cade develops into a great shooter. (Or maybe Roach or Johnson does).
    I hear ya, and I guess its “plenty” relative to this past season, but I still think it’s potentially a solid shooting team, although maybe not an incredible one.

    In that scenario I think AOC could/would project as a 6th man and so we’d have potentially have 2 knock-down shooters (if Baker turns out to be one, as projected) playing ‘starters’ minutes. If just one of the others is adequate (mid-30s) then we’d be a pretty good shooting team, albeit not an “all-time” great one, but I guess those are the expectations around here...(not a shot at you, its just reality. We’re seemingly a top 5-10 team every year so greatness is expected.)

    Also, freshman usually struggle from 3 during the transition to college speeds and a deeper line, so even if we recruited a really good shooter he might not be as effective as AOC/Baker.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    I hear ya, and I guess its “plenty” relative to this past season, but I still think it’s potentially a solid shooting team, although maybe not an incredible one.

    In that scenario I think AOC could/would project as a 6th man and so we’d have potentially have 2 knock-down shooters (if Baker turns out to be one, as projected) playing ‘starters’ minutes. If just one of the others is adequate (mid-30s) then we’d be a pretty good shooting team, albeit not an “all-time” great one, but I guess those are the expectations around here...(not a shot at you, its just reality. We’re seemingly a top 5-10 team every year so greatness is expected.)
    I don't know. I think in the modern game, a starter, a 6th-man, and then one other person shooting 35% probably don't qualify as a "pretty good" shooting team, imo. I think when we look back in 10 years, we'll see that Villanova and UVA were the start of a trend of great shooting teams having almost all the success in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully Duke can get back to being a great shooting program.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Also, freshman usually struggle from 3 during the transition to college speeds and a deeper line, so even if we recruited a really good shooter he might not be as effective as AOC/Baker.
    I agree, especially since the line will be moved back to FIBA length, but to me, it's just all the more reason for Duke to have extreme focus on recruiting the elite high school shooters, the ones that have a better chance to make the adjustment.

    Also, I need to see AOC shoot at the new FIBA line. He's always struck me as a line-hugger, so the extra distance could impact him. Joey, fortunately, seems like he has range in addition to accuracy.

  13. #433
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I don't know. I think in the modern game, a starter, a 6th-man, and then one other person shooting 35% probably don't qualify as a "pretty good" shooting team, imo. I think when we look back in 10 years, we'll see that Villanova and UVA were the start of a trend of great shooting teams having almost all the success in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully Duke can get back to being a great shooting program.
    To be fair, UVa is just a season removed from the first 1 seed opening round loss in the 64/65/68 team era. And they didn't exactly run away from the field in this year's tournament, needing an unbelievable amount of luck to get past the Elite-8 and Final-Four and even an overtime to win in the title game. And Villanova could well have lost to UNC in the 2016 title game as well.

    It is possible that we're headed towards an era of floor spacing winning the day. But had UNC won in 2016 and/or Texas Tech won it in 2019 (and each was a basket away from doing so), I'm not sure we'd be talking about Villanova and UVa ushering in a new era of basketball.

  14. #434
    Evan Daniels predicting Cunningham to Oklahoma State.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Um . . . is it just me or does Cade Cunningham look like a WAY better recruit as a OAD prospect? I'm not gonna debate about potential, as they both seem like very skilled players, but Cade looks like's MUCH further along with his body, and his feel for the game is incredible. Check out some of these passes.

    Brandon is the same height (6'6"), maybe a bit longer, but is listed at 175 compared to Cade's solid 215. He also seems like he's more of a pure scorer than a guy who can be a dual threat to both score and set up his teammates, like Cade appears to be.

    If we have to pick only 1 of these 2 guys to have for one year, I'll take the kid who's physically ready for the ACC.
    I don't profess to be an expert but when I watched Cade's highlights he really looks a more complete package. Obviously, these youtube videos can be misleading and only shed a little bit of how a prospect plays (See: Zion Williamson), but he definitely looks like a Pro in waiting with his body and athleticism. Looks much more ready, especially defensively, than Boston.

    If we can get both that would be swell

  16. #436
    Quentin Grimes is transferring from KU. #10 ranked prospect in the class of 2018. Sit 1, play 3. Not sure the circumstances surrounding his departure from KU. Wonder if there would be any interest.

  17. #437
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I agree, especially since the line will be moved back to FIBA length, but to me, it's just all the more reason for Duke to have extreme focus on recruiting the elite high school shooters, the ones that have a better chance to make the adjustment.

    Also, I need to see AOC shoot at the new FIBA line. He's always struck me as a line-hugger, so the extra distance could impact him. Joey, fortunately, seems like he has range in addition to accuracy.
    Sorry if this has been discussed already, is the FIBA 3-point line for college basketball a done deal for the 2019-20 season?

  18. #438
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Sorry if this has been discussed already, is the FIBA 3-point line for college basketball a done deal for the 2019-20 season?
    Good question. June 5 is decision day on the rule changes. Proposal is Division I next season, Div. II later -- although I suppose the Oversight Panel could fiddle with the dates.

    On Friday, the NCAA Men’s Basketball Rules Committee recommended pushing the three-point line back to the international distance of 22 feet and 1.75 inches. The Playing Rules Oversight Panel will meet on June 5 to approve or reject the recommendations proposed by the committee. If approved, the three-point change would take effect next season in Division I...
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  19. #439
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    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Good question. June 5 is decision day on the rule changes. Proposal is Division I next season, Div. II later -- although I suppose the Oversight Panel could fiddle with the dates.
    Bit of an insight into the difference between Div I and Div II athletics. Repainting the lines is a financial burden on Div II programs.

  20. #440
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by frb View Post
    Quentin Grimes is transferring from KU. #10 ranked prospect in the class of 2018. Sit 1, play 3. Not sure the circumstances surrounding his departure from KU. Wonder if there would be any interest.
    Given the wings on the roster (several of whom are likely to be here next season) and the kids we are recruiting who also play SG, I'm not sure Grimes is a very good fit.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

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